Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

[Servant19]

Here’s the problem, its not only age that renders a document unrealiable but its also the history of the work and how it was transmitted. What good reason do you have to trust a collection of texts that was handled by the church and that which modern scholars do not trust? Your bible is more or less my bible because without the church you would not have this and the church which put its contents together, its general and approximate contents has read it in a different light to bahai since the begining. And if bahaia maintain their interpretation of it is correct over and against those that have had it since the begining, I suppose we were given a book which we could not possibly understand.

No my friend, the Bahai Faith places a great deal of trust in the purity of intention of those who compiled the Gospels. The methods and means of recording these accounts was significantly more advanced than during Krishnas time.

I trust the Bible, because God, through Baha’u’llah told me it was so.

READING the Bible and its contents to interpret is not within the authority of the compilers.

The book is very understandable, it’s just that it is understood in numerous ways. I’ll take Gods interpretation over any human being

 

[Servant19]

The POINT is why would you NOT see Krishnas words as being genuine?

Why take Jesus’ word over Krishnas?

For Baha’is there is valid reasoning, and that is, we have been given SPECIFIC guidance in the matter, but not for Christians.

And Steve, yes, Krishna was not resurrected, but He did over universal salvation and redemption and forgiveness of all sin, while producing incredible miracles:

When Lord Krishna was 7 years old, he lifted a mountain (26 miles in perimeter) and held it up with his one hand for 7 days. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people who were standing underneath the mountain.
Lord Krishna expanded his body into 16,108 forms. Which means he duplicated his body into 16,108 identical bodies.
Lord Krishna transformed himself into others. This means he can make himself into a copy of anyone.
Lord Krishna showed in his mouth, the whole Universe.
Lord Krishna granted Arjuna divine vision and reveled his spectacular unlimited form as the cosmic universe. In which Arjuna could see the various forms of Lord Krishna, and unlimited Planets while being seated in one place. He was also shown the past, present, and future.
Lord Krishna killed all the wicked Kings who were tormenting and harassing the public. People were saved in this very life and didn’t have to wait for the Day of Judgment.
When a woman called Draupadi was disrobed in a court of kings, she called out to Lord Krishna for help and he supplied her with an unlimited sari and thus she could not be disrobed.
Many atheists tried to kill Lord Krishna, but Lord Krishna very easily defeated them all and also gave them on the spot liberation. Lord Krishna is most merciful; he gives liberation even to those who try to kill him. The Lord can give on the spot liberation; one does not need to wait for the Day of Judgment.
Lord Krishna brought back to life many dead people including the six children of Devaki.
Lord Krishna cured diseased people including transforming a hunchback woman into a most beautiful woman in return for offering sandalwood pulp to the Lord.

“Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way. I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize my true transcendental nature fall down”(Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.24)

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

No insult intended, we ALL would become better people by reading more.

I’m just following forum rules by providing links so we can save on forum space. Why would you ask me to go against that ethic?

Wow.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

And Steve, yes, Krishna was not resurrected, but He did over universal salvation and redemption and forgiveness of all sin, while producing incredible miracles:

I find it a little disingenious that you will quote whatever agrees with you and disregaurd the rest as being an invention, why trust this work at all as authoritative? We can’t know anything as to its authorship? But its your agenda not mine. I may point out though that if universal salvation and forgiveness of sin was accomplished with Krishna long before Christ, the apostles, Christ himself had no idea about it. That is there would be no need for there to be two times in history in which universal salvation is given. The author of hebrews tells us Christ is the only mediator and this work you tell me you trust on the authority of your prophet, you have a contradiction here.For the apostles seemed under the delusion the Christ was the only name by which we could be saved, to which every knee could bow, to whom everyone would be judged to whom we owe our existence too. So who is? Krishna or Jesus? Or are all the manifestations in bahai going to judge you?

Thats something bahai ahve not addressed, who judges? God or his manifestations? Why should we settle for being judged by lesser creatures? Why doesn’t God have the final say?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The book is very understandable, it’s just that it is understood in numerous ways. I’ll take Gods interpretation over any human being

Would you maintain the apostles had your interpretation?

 

[Servant19]

The Father judges Ignatian

You are still clinging into Identities.

Look at God, not the human frame He made Himself flesh within throughout history.

You will then see that the Message is the same in all…

Did Jesus say He can save, or the Father speaking THROUGH Jesus?
Did Krishna say He can save, or the Father speaking THROUGH Krishna?

Did Jesus say He was the Father, or the Father speaking THROUGH Jesus?
Did Baha’u’llah say He was the Father, or the Father speaking THROUGH Baha’u’llah?

It’s so peaceful when you get this, tranquility in abundance overwhelms your soul

 

[Servant19]

Would you maintain the apostles had your interpretation?

St. Basil did for sure. I’ll do my research on some of the other early Christian saints etc

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The Father judges Ignatian

You are still clinging into Identities.

Look at God, not the human frame He made Himself flesh within throughout history.

You will then see that the Message is the same in all…

Did Jesus say He can save, or the Father speaking THROUGH Jesus?
Did Krishna say He can save, or the Father speaking THROUGH Krishna?

Did Jesus say He was the Father, or the Father speaking THROUGH Jesus?
Did Baha’u’llah say He was the Father, or the Father speaking THROUGH Baha’u’llah?

It’s so peaceful when you get this, tranquility in abundance overwhelms your soul

Jesus said his name has power that if we ask teh father in his name that the father will listen, so what does that imply? That implies the father holds the name of Jesus highly, so high that he his bound by it it seems. Now you said Krishna saves and gave universal salvation, im only asking why do I need jesus’s or even your own prophet’s if I can just go Krishna? Why am I beholden to anyone other than Krishna?

And no one says Jesus was the father we are not Patripassionists (and if you want discuss this open a thread and we can discuss that specific trinitarian topic but don;t continue to act as if Christians are saying Jesus was the father, nobody is making that argument), rather every knee will bow to Christ. Certaintly every knee cannot bow to Mirza hussain, mirza hussain was not the mediator between God and man, that was Jesus. Theres this idea of progressive revelation and progressive intensity and if the words of Krishna hold any value to you, Moses supposebly came after Krishna, yet the new testament accords Jesus more honour than MOses. You must accord more honour to Moses despite him not claiming any of the things Krishna claimed.

 

[Servant19]

Jesus said his name has power that if we ask teh father in his name that the father will listen, so what does that imply? That implies the father holds the name of Jesus highly, so high that he his bound by it it seems. Now you said Krishna saves and gave universal salvation, im only asking why do I need jesus’s or even your own prophet’s if I can just go Krishna? Why am I beholden to anyone other than Krishna?

And no one says Jesus was the father we are not Patripassionists (and if you want discuss this open a thread and we can discuss that specific trinitarian topic but don;t continue to act as if Christians are saying Jesus was the father, nobody is making that argument), rather every knee will bow to Christ. Certaintly every knee cannot bow to Mirza hussain, mirza hussain was not the mediator between God and man, that was Jesus. Theres this idea of progressive revelation and progressive intensity and if the words of Krishna hold any value to you, Moses supposebly came after Krishna, yet the new testament accords Jesus more honour than MOses. You must accord more honour to Moses despite him not claiming any of the things Krishna claimed.

Actually it’s Catholics that say Jesus is this, Jesus is that, and Jesus did this and Jesus did that, clinging onto the human frame of Jesus.

I asked YOU the question, why not then cling onto Krishna, who was and did all of the same things but did them first.

If you cling into the human achievements and the claims of an Individual Identity then it only makes sense to worship the Person who did and claimed all these things first.

Baha’is worship the spiritual Identity, BEYOND the human claims of conquering death etc etc, but rather see them ALL as God speaking THROUGH them.

You don’t see it that way, so why not worship the first CLAIMANT, Krishna??

In regards to the difference between God and the Father, I asked the question here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=814958

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

St. Basil did for sure. I’ll do my research on some of the other early Christian saints etc

You are being dishonest when it comes to saint basil and disengenious. You think you understand him from one paragraph, that is absurd. Saint Basil was one the greatest defenders of nicene orthodoxy which bahai reject. You maintian Basil and the fathers are on your side? I gave resources so as to understand Basil and his life and his works and what he taught, but you have rejected them, an educated opinion by scholars who actually read Basil in his own language (unlike you who has only read a paragraph in english). Why don’t you claim Gregory of Nyssa? Or any Christian today who uses a metaphore of Jesus as like the ray of the sun from the sun? BEcause they don’t mean the same thing.

Here’s something for you and you will not find it online.

“Basil’s theology in his Against Eunomius is not intended to represent the Homoiousian thought defeated at the Council of Constantinople, nor is it meant to refute the Homoian thought victorious at the council, but specifically focuses on countering the Heterouosian theology of Eunomius. Basil was surely influenced by Homoiousian thought, as his mentor Eustathius of Sebasteia identified with this group in Basil’s formative years. At the same time, even in this, his earliest doctrinal treatise, Basil reveals himself as an independant and innovative thinker who drew on many theological currents. The teachings of Origien, Eusibius, Athanasius and the Homoiousians all make appearances in Against Eunomius. Basil intergrates various streams of thought… into a viable pro-nicene theology, that is, a set of doctrines and theological practices aimed at promoting the Nicene creed as the Cipher for orthodox trinitarian Theology.”

CUA Against Eunomius, Introduction page 34

Do you understand anything about the context wherein he lived? That if we are to take seriously that Basil was promoting an idea of manifestationism like the bahai that he was in his own category away from these groups?

Again don’t be rash in trying to find a quote and thinking it agrees with you use it in support. Read more. You will find Basil a man you will dislike if you ever begin reading Against Eunomius he was far less restrained than I.
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[IgnatianPhilo]

Actually it’s Catholics that say Jesus is this, Jesus is that, and Jesus did this and Jesus did that, clinging onto the human frame of Jesus.

I asked YOU the question, why not then cling onto Krishna, who was and did all of the same things but did them first.

If you cling into the human achievements and the claims of an Individual Identity then it only makes sense to worship the Person who did and claimed all these things first.

Baha’is worship the spiritual Identity, BEYOND the human claims of conquering death etc etc, but rather see them ALL as God speaking THROUGH them.

You don’t see it that way, so why not worship the first CLAIMANT, Krishna??

In regards to the difference between God and the Father, I asked the question here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=814958

Well im not roman catholic, i will remind you of that as you seem to mention catholics alot to me for some reason. But everything I said is on the words of the new testament itself.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

Hebrews 1:1 In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means,[1] through the prophets; now at last 2 in these times he has spoken to us with a Son to speak for him; a Son, whom he has appointed to inherit all things, just as it was through him that he created this world of time; a Son, who is the radiance of his Father’s splendour, and the full expression of his being;[2] all creation depends, for its support, on his enabling word. Now, making atonement for our sins, he has taken his place on high, at the right hand of God’s majesty, 4 superior to the angels in that measure in which the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.[3]

(I might as well reccomend the entirety of the book of hebrews because it makes such point as to the supremecy of JEsus in all things merely quoting a the first few verses is enough)

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

And there are needless more I could go to, but over and over in the new testament Jesus is the creator, he is the judge who determine the ultimate destiny of everyone (you included), is the name by which you must be saved and he is the only mediator. So Catholics have rightfully said these things about him since the begining.

That being said I worship Jesus for whom he is, God almighty and for the saving work he has accomplished. What has your God done for you except sow seeds of confusion every one thousand years for no apparent reason?

 

[SteveVH]

Originally Posted by Servant19
In response to your question about lightning, my understanding of that passage is that the Return will be like a flash of lightning that most people will blink and will miss. Baha’is believe that He will return like a “thief in the night” where no one is aware that the thief is even there. That He will come with the clouds, clouds of obscurity. The exact time of His Return is absolutely unknown, and that’s why no-one read the Bible in 1844 and went to meet Him and immediately believed.

Okay. I ask you, in the interest of intellectual honesty, please read the text and then tell me that you still believe what you just said:

"For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I don’t know if a writer could convey more clearly that this event will not be missed even if one desired to miss it. “All the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see…”.

Your interpretation of the “clouds of heaven” as something that obscures his coming is not in line with the Hebrew meaning. Clouds represent the “shekinah”, the “holy cloud”; the dwelling of the divine presence of God.

Servant, would you mind please addressing my response to your post. I’m sure you just missed it, but I am very curious as to your response.

Thanks.

 

[Little_Star_1]

You guys don’t see how all of this discussion is a bit nuts? You sound like kids saying “my Dad can beat up your Dad.” If the teachings of Bahá’u’llá lead men to God isn’t that what faith is all about?

Okay, now you might say, but Jesus taught that no one gets to the Father except through him. Well, for one thing, it was his directions in how to live and regard ourselves and God and to treat others. that were the primary focus of his teachings. His relationship with the Father really wasn’t the focus. He said believe me because of He who sent me, God. Also, if you believe that Jesus is God and Bahá’u’llá is leading folks to God, then he is essentially going through Jesus, leading people to Him. You can’t have it both ways to say that Jesus is the way to the Father and no one gets to the Father except through him and then say Baha’i don’t follow Jesus and so can’t get to the Father if Jesus is God. Then, it is possible that Jesus lead Bahá’u’llá to Truth because Jesus is the Father. Tell me that in your mind, and heart, not the words of the Bible or Biblical doctrine, you know for sure that this is not true. Because Jesus is after your heart and your mind in the personage of you as a human, your soul, not because you read a book. He captures hearts and souls, not because you can read, but because you can love. Can you?

Now there are those of you that will quote me and rip into me because of my saying this. But, how much time and energy could you have given over to prayer and communing with the Father to find guidance in this, and a whole lot more pertinent stuff, instead of coming on here arguing about whose Messenger was the best and true Messenger? Come on, really where is God in all of this?

I thought folks were going to be on here asking questions about the Baha’i faith out of interest and respect for the loving faith of others, not asking and then ripping it apart. Is this the work of the Lord? Or, are all of you, just like those folks in my church on that Easter Sunday, just plain nuts?

Bye

 

[arthra]

It’s easy to argue about prophecies… I recommend solitary study and contemplation…

 

[Jcc1960]

Well im not roman catholic, i will remind you of that as you seem to mention catholics alot to me for some reason. But everything I said is on the words of the new testament itself.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

Hebrews 1:1 In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means,[1] through the prophets; now at last 2 in these times he has spoken to us with a Son to speak for him; a Son, whom he has appointed to inherit all things, just as it was through him that he created this world of time; a Son, who is the radiance of his Father’s splendour, and the full expression of his being;[2] all creation depends, for its support, on his enabling word. Now, making atonement for our sins, he has taken his place on high, at the right hand of God’s majesty, 4 superior to the angels in that measure in which the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.[3]

(I might as well reccomend the entirety of the book of hebrews because it makes such point as to the supremecy of JEsus in all things merely quoting a the first few verses is enough)

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

And there are needless more I could go to, but over and over in the new testament Jesus is the creator, he is the judge who determine the ultimate destiny of everyone (you included), is the name by which you must be saved and he is the only mediator. So Catholics have rightfully said these things about him since the begining.

That being said I worship Jesus for whom he is, God almighty and for the saving work he has accomplished. What has your God done for you except sow seeds of confusion every one thousand years for no apparent reason?

The quote you provided from Hebrews shows precisely what Baha’is call progressive revelation. “In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means,” It is important to note that it is the same God that chose to speak in different ways at different times. Certainly, the purpose was not to sow confusion, not in the case of the Old Testament, nor in the scriptures of other religions.

The purpose God has in sending a revelation every 1000 years or so is to bring the people closer to Him. All of these revelations have teachings for that period of time, universal teachings for all time, and prophecies about future revelations. They all point to a golden age, which both Christians and Baha’is may call the Kingdom of God on earth, and other religions have other names for it. God has a purpose for us, although we have not always known what that is. Glimpses are provided in each revelation, which allow the faithful to see and understand, but it is easy for people to lose sight of it, so it has been renewed.

 

[Little_Star_1]

Well im not roman catholic, i will remind you of that as you seem to mention catholics alot to me for some reason. But everything I said is on the words of the new testament itself.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

Hebrews 1:1 In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means,[1] through the prophets; now at last 2 in these times he has spoken to us with a Son to speak for him; a Son, whom he has appointed to inherit all things, just as it was through him that he created this world of time; a Son, who is the radiance of his Father’s splendour, and the full expression of his being;[2] all creation depends, for its support, on his enabling word. Now, making atonement for our sins, he has taken his place on high, at the right hand of God’s majesty, 4 superior to the angels in that measure in which the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.[3]

(I might as well reccomend the entirety of the book of hebrews because it makes such point as to the supremecy of JEsus in all things merely quoting a the first few verses is enough)

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

And there are needless more I could go to, but over and over in the new testament Jesus is the creator, he is the judge who determine the ultimate destiny of everyone (you included), is the name by which you must be saved and he is the only mediator. So Catholics have rightfully said these things about him since the begining.

That being said I worship Jesus for whom he is, God almighty and for the saving work he has accomplished. What has your God done for you except sow seeds of confusion every one thousand years for no apparent reason?

Iggy,

I had to say one last thing to you. What have you sown using the Word of God? You have been hateful and spiteful in your treatment of the Baha’i. Once again, do you believe that Jesus is God? If you do, what is all the hubbub about? They aren’t telling you that you have to believe as they do or you are doomed. They are merely stating what they believe and then being submitted to abuse as a result.

Are you are angry because others use different words and images to profess their love of God? I am astounded that you would refer to their faith as if they worship a God other than the Father.

I submit to you that what you worship is what comes out through your mind into your fingers and then onto the keyboard and has nothing to do with the Father. You may think it does, but it does not. Get right with yourself and God.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Iggy,

I had to say one last thing to you. What have you sown using the Word of God? You have been hateful and spiteful in your treatment of the Baha’i. Once again, do you believe that Jesus is God? If you do, what is all the hubbub about? They aren’t telling you that you have to believe as they do or you are doomed. They are merely stating what they believe and then being submitted to abuse as a result.

Are you are angry because others use different words and images to profess their love of God? I am astounded that you would refer to their faith as if they worship a God other than the Father.

I submit to you that what you worship is what comes out through your mind into your fingers and then onto the keyboard and has nothing to do with the Father. You may think it does, but it does not. Get right with yourself and God.

Hateful and spiteful he says, was Peter being hateful and spiteful when he chided Simon Magus? Was the apostle paul being hateful and spiteful when he condemned the man who slept with his mother in law and expelled him from the community?

Unlike these men however I am merely being critical as to bahai but what baffles me is that you actually agree with bahai it seems while yet claiming to be Christian. Your christianity seems to be private and innovative than what was received by the apostles and it seems to be something you are unwilling to discuss and I wonder why.

I submit to you that sarcasm and harsh criticism are not cruel or spiteful but that you and the bahai who are offended at a person typing on the internet tells us something of the insecurity within yourselves. Maybe, im not a doctor.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

You guys don’t see how all of this discussion is a bit nuts? You sound like kids saying “my Dad can beat up your Dad.” If the teachings of Bahá’u’llá lead men to God isn’t that what faith is all about?

Okay, now you might say, but Jesus taught that no one gets to the Father except through him. Well, for one thing, it was his directions in how to live and regard ourselves and God and to treat others. that were the primary focus of his teachings. His relationship with the Father really wasn’t the focus. He said believe me because of He who sent me, God. Also, if you believe that Jesus is God and Bahá’u’llá is leading folks to God, then he is essentially going through Jesus, leading people to Him. You can’t have it both ways to say that Jesus is the way to the Father and no one gets to the Father except through him and then say Baha’i don’t follow Jesus and so can’t get to the Father if Jesus is God. Then, it is possible that Jesus lead Bahá’u’llá to Truth because Jesus is the Father. Tell me that in your mind, and heart, not the words of the Bible or Biblical doctrine, you know for sure that this is not true. Because Jesus is after your heart and your mind in the personage of you as a human, your soul, not because you read a book. He captures hearts and souls, not because you can read, but because you can love. Can you?

Now there are those of you that will quote me and rip into me because of my saying this. But, how much time and energy could you have given over to prayer and communing with the Father to find guidance in this, and a whole lot more pertinent stuff, instead of coming on here arguing about whose Messenger was the best and true Messenger? Come on, really where is God in all of this?

I thought folks were going to be on here asking questions about the Baha’i faith out of interest and respect for the loving faith of others, not asking and then ripping it apart. Is this the work of the Lord? Or, are all of you, just like those folks in my church on that Easter Sunday, just plain nuts?

Bye

The thing is Mirza Hussain doesn’t lead people to God, he leads people away from God. I am of the persuasion that he is a false prophet and you seem to be under the impression what Mirza Hussain said was true, why are you not bahai yet?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The quote you provided from Hebrews shows precisely what Baha’is call progressive revelation. “In old days, God spoke to our fathers in many ways and by many means,” It is important to note that it is the same God that chose to speak in different ways at different times. Certainly, the purpose was not to sow confusion, not in the case of the Old Testament, nor in the scriptures of other religions.

The purpose God has in sending a revelation every 1000 years or so is to bring the people closer to Him. All of these revelations have teachings for that period of time, universal teachings for all time, and prophecies about future revelations. They all point to a golden age, which both Christians and Baha’is may call the Kingdom of God on earth, and other religions have other names for it. God has a purpose for us, although we have not always known what that is. Glimpses are provided in each revelation, which allow the faithful to see and understand, but it is easy for people to lose sight of it, so it has been renewed.

What it shows is that things have been brought to full fruition in Jesus Christ. The premise of the book of hebrews is the ultimate supremecy of Jesus Christ over all, he is the one who created the world, he is the one by which we are saved, he is the one by which we are all accountable to, he is the only mediator between God and man, he is the one by which the father says (THE FATHER SAYS) “Thy throne o God is forever.”

Mirza Hussain cannot claim any of these things, he is not the mediator, he is none of these things.

But heres the ultimate problem with your progressive revelation, the ideal is fine and dandy but when we actually see the history of the supposed figures you believe we see something very different, something which Bahai cannot account for except in the most Obvious ways. The best way to deal with Krishna is to say the sources cannot be trusted except only when they agree with Bahai dogma, the same can be said of budha and Zoroaster. But what do you do when a legitimate contradiction appears in sources which you cannot dismiss because your own prophets have determined them realiable? Usually it is the worst type of interpretation which places the view of modern bahais on to those figures of the past without thinking to consider their actual historic circumstance.

You maintain manifestations cannot sin, but we see clear examples of those whom you call manifestations sinning. Moses for instance and the only answer one can give is to say the text is suddenly metaphorically making Moses represent all israel. The text becomes a free for all in which any interpretation which can be read literally must not be because it contradicts the bahai faith. If Moses wanted to say he was taking on the punishment for the congregation he could have just said it, but instead he wrote it in such a way that all those following him would believe in something totally different. The same of Luke who could have written an account of the apostles merely being together and then having a sudden revelation goes on to confuse those who read his gospel and acts by then portraying Jesus as literally eating fish and telling each of his apostles “i am not a spirit” or the apostle John in his gospel having Jesus invite Thomas to touch him.

These are God’s words for Bahai, but only bahai could ever have the hope of understanding them and we see the results of every one of your so called manifestations. Mass confusion and different religions which contend against the other. Your God’s record is not one to be proud of, not a single one of his attempts has succeeded and you should not believe yourselves to be immune for you have no more garuntees than did the Hindus, Muslims, jews and Christians. By rights and precdent set fourth you will fail completely as everyone else has. Thus why I say yours is a God of confusion, a god so incompetent he has to try nine or so times to get it right.

 

[Little_Star_1]

I want to apologize to you folks for the last remark I made to Iggy. I was wrong to be so judgmental. However, when is enough enough? How many wars, how many lives have been lost, are being lost, over disputes regarding who is a prophet, who is true, who is a liar and so on? The type of egregious comments, the thoughts, the emotions behind them, have lead to the wars and the torture. If you can’t see it, it is because you are too tied to what you regard as your truth. The Truth is God loves us all and demands for us to treat each other with the same type of love he has for us. Some of the stuff on here falls far short of it. Forgiveness.

Iggy I have made professions of my faith many times on this thread. I treat all people with respect and the love commanded by God. You go on and on about how superior your beliefs are because of what is written here and there. Yet, you have once to show where the commandment to love has found its way into your religion. Words are not enough. Good bye Iggy.