Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

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Servant19 said:
I guess this may be further clarified as to what your definition of “humanity” is?

Certainly no human being can walk through walls.
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Please refer to my earlier post #565
Reuben J:
Remember that human composed of body, mind (soul) and spirit. Body is what we see in the earthly life. The soul (humanity, relates to man; our emotion and intellect) we cannot see and does not die. The spirit (that relates to God and the Evil One; our intuition, illumination and conscience) that we cannot see also does not die.

So it is futile to limit man just to his earthly body because he is still a man as long as he has his soul and spirit. In his glorified body he is a complete man. When a soul is separated from his body, he dies. But in his glorified body he is complete once again.
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Servant19 said:
Please don’t get me wrong, dear friend, I am not questioning the authenticity of the Bible. I am simply saying that Jesus is the ONLY authentic case of someone having risen from the dead. What the term “risen from the dead” actually means can be interpreted in several ways.

Now, to say that one interpretation is false, and the Catholic interpretation is truth, is simply unjust.

Thats all I’m saying. Not sure if you agree with me or not…
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Fair enough but don’t be too worry about it because it works both ways. I am sure you would say the Catholic interpretation is false. You have to say that because it does not square with your belief.

Like I said, our belief is based on the Church Tradition that produced the Bible and knew what the Bible means.
 
Reuben_J said:
Please refer to my earlier post #565

Fair enough but don’t be too worry about it because it works both ways. I am sure you would say the Catholic interpretation is false. You have to say that because it does not square with your belief.

Like I said, our belief is based on the Church Tradition that produced the Bible and knew what the Bible means.
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The Church produced the New Testament, but the Old Testament was produced by Jewish tradition over 1000 years or more. Christian interpretation of the Old Testament differs from Jewish interpretation in many respects, but we consider it to be legitimate because the Christian interpretation was inspired by Christ.

Note that in its own context, Jewish interpretation of the Old Testament is legitimate also, how could it be otherwise, since that tradition is what produced Old Testament. Where it is clearly wrong in our view is where it denies Christ as the Messiah.

Same applies to Baha’u’llah. We can respect the traditions of the Church and of Jewish scholars, but where it comes to the denial of God’s new Revelation, we respectfully differ. We affirm that God is not constrained by old interpretations of prophecies.
 
Non of the bahais here have answered my post, it probably got blended in with the other ones, but here (I copied and pasted my own question again):
Hey ,
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What does bahai religion think of astrology, tarot cards, feng shui, etc… I am actually indifferent and neutral towards it, but what about the bahais?
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Jcc1960 said:
The Church produced the New Testament, but the Old Testament was produced by Jewish tradition over 1000 years or more. Christian interpretation of the Old Testament differs from Jewish interpretation in many respects, but we consider it to be legitimate because the Christian interpretation was inspired by Christ.

Note that in its own context, Jewish interpretation of the Old Testament is legitimate also, how could it be otherwise, since that tradition is what produced Old Testament. Where it is clearly wrong in our view is where it denies Christ as the Messiah.

Same applies to Baha’u’llah. We can respect the traditions of the Church and of Jewish scholars, but where it comes to the denial of God’s new Revelation, we respectfully differ. We affirm that God is not constrained by old interpretations of prophecies.
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The Church interpretation is that there will be no new revelation except what had been revealed by Jesus. He said, “it is finished.” When you have new revelation then you have altered the picture altogether as interpreted by the Church.

Christian tradition is not the same with Jewish tradition. The OT is accepted by the Church because it supported the Church belief but the OT is not exactly the Jewish Bible. I am sure you know that the Church do not accept all Jewish scripture in toto but those that were relevant to support her belief.

We do not pretend that we accept Jewish interpretation of the scripture nor their tradition because in the main thing they are not compatible. Either one embraces Judaism or Christianity but not both.

It is impossible for you to accept both the Jewish and the Christian tradition and yet do not see the contradiction.
 
daler said:
Very interesting, because virtually every Christian sect, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist sect, Native American tribe is restored to complete unity by recognizing the coming of Baha’u’llah as the Promised One of “All” Religions. Some 6 or 7 million of us, thus far, from every nation, tribe, religion, and sect on earth.

And these are not simple people, depending upon your definition, but people of great sophistication from all of these groups, whether neuro-surgeons or illiterates, priests or medicine men and women, professors or carpenters, rich or poor.

And the unity that all feel is far above what words can express, more than the heart can contain. And the beauty of it all is that the love felt across every difficult and insurmountable line which men have found impossible to cross for thousands of years has so clearly been crossed. Over, and over, and over again.

So indeed, our Prophet has restored, and continues to restore daily, the blessed souls who were separated by schismatics of the One Faith of Jesus, and Muhammad, and Moses, and Buddha, and Krsna, and … … … and we are all just sitting here smiling… 😉 and in one voice proclaiming “The Lord has come in His Great Glory!”

. And all our eyes see it together, i.e., in Unity, for that is how we enter through the Gate, into the Sacred Hoop of All Nations, into the One Fold of the One Shepherd.

May the Great Spirit make His Face to shine upon you in all His Shakinah Glory… 😉

We just hate to see people turn away from it. But then, free will requires it, doesn’t it…
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Triumphalism does not carry much weight around here … .:rolleyes:
 
Servant19 said:
You see, this is where the atheists start to question the credibility of religion. It is when religion starts to make the physical reality into something that has never been witnessed or observed, that a lot of credibility is lost.
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Christianity is a religion of miracles. One cannot change this fact in order to accommodate the atheists.

And the atheistic objection is untenable, anyway, for it is circular: “I don’t believe in the Bible because it is filled with miracles” and “There are miracles in the Bible, so therefore the Bible is not to be believed”.

Circular!
 
Servant19 said:
Certainly no human being can walk through walls.
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Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, what God has ready for those who love Him!
Please don’t get me wrong, dear friend, I am not questioning the authenticity of the Bible. I am simply saying that Jesus is the ONLY authentic case of someone having risen from the dead. What the term “risen from the dead” actually means can be interpreted in several ways.
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And that is why we don’t read the Scriptures apart from the lens of the Church.
 
Servant19 said:
Of course, Steve 🙂
I believe God can do ANYTHING, if He wished for it, but for everything there is a reason.
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So is your objection to the physical resurrection of Christ NOT that it doesn’t make sense for a physical resurrection…

but rather WHY it occurred?
 
PRmerger said:
So is your objection to the physical resurrection of Christ NOT that it doesn’t make sense for a physical resurrection…

but rather WHY it occurred?
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Well not really WHY it occurred, but what purpose does a glorified body serve?
 
Servant19 said:
Of course, Steve 🙂
I believe God can do ANYTHING, if He wished for it, but for everything there is a reason.
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Good. You agree that God could certainly have done this if he chose to do it. Add to this the fact that we have eyewitnesses who verify that this is exactly what God chose to do. The Gospels make it very clear that Jesus appeared and that he had a body that could eat, could be touched and at the same time disappear or walk through walls. That is what has been revealed.

And you ask for the reason? If the body is so insignificant, why were we given one to begin with? As I have explained more than a few times already, if you do not have a body and a soul, you are not human. When you separate these two human components (body and soul) we die. When God once again unites them, you have the resurrection. This is what God has willed. Its truthfulness is not dependent upon our ability to comprehend it or understand the reason behind it. God’s ways are not our ways.
Servant19 said:
What is the purpose or reason for changing a physical, mortal body, into an immortal body, when we know that the human spirit is already immortal?
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So that we might be complete as human beings once again (not just yeast or flour, but a loaf of bread), yet free from corruption or decay or death with a body that does not hinder us in any way.
Servant19 said:
What is the purpose of the body at all, the visible body, when EVERYTHING that has meaning, everything that has depth, everything that is touching and can bring a loving tear to the eye is sourced from the invisible spirit of man, that Divine Dewdrop which is the source of EVERYTHING that we can be conscious of?
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You ask why we have a body at all and go on to give all the reasons that we do not need a body. Yet the reality is that we do have a body. It is part of God’s plan whether we know why or not. It is part of who we are and we do not loose who we are. We are given a body that will last for eternity.

I think we have about beat this subject to death, but it leads to another subject.

How do you consider those parts of Christian Scripture which make it clear that Jesus had a physical body after his resurrection (or a spiritual body that can transform into a physical body). What do you say concerning Thomas touching the wounds of Christ, or Jesus eating and drinking. Do you consider them falsified documents, or just plain myths? And how do you discern between what is true and what is not true in the Bible?
 
You asked why do we have a physical body to begin with?

It is the vehicle by which we exercise our free will to cleanse our souls so it can manifest the intended attributes of its Creator.

Once this vehicle is shed, it is respected (only for the fact that it was created by our Father for this purpose) and the soul continues to progress throughout the INFINITE worlds of God towards its Source and Object of its desire
 
SteveVH said:
You have lost me. To what are you referring, exactly? A body that can be touched is not physical? 🤷
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No a body that can appear and disappear at will, and that can enter through walls, and can literally fly, is not a physical body
 
Servant19 said:
No a body that can appear and disappear at will, and that can enter through walls, and can literally fly, is not a physical body
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Only within our experience in this world. Our bodies have not yet been glorified. Neither you, nor I have experienced what that means. Again, Servant, we didn’t make this up and then turn to the Scriptures to try and prove our point. The fact that we will have a glorified body capable of doing everything we have described was revealed to us by Christ; by his own example. That is why we believe it even if we do not fully understand it.

You, on the other hand, begin with a preconceived set of ideas which conflict with the revelation of Christ and then, rather than accepting this revelation, instead say that it is in error because it doesn’t comport with your preconceived beliefs. Better to conform our lives to the truth revealed to us than to conform the meaning of Scripture to our personal preferences.

By the way, would you mind answering my question on your attitude toward those Scriptures which directly conflict with your conclusions? Do you choose your own judgment over that of the Christian Scriptures?
 
Servant19 said:
Well not really WHY it occurred, but what purpose does a glorified body serve?
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It is a glorified version of the human body on Earth. And the human body makes visible to the world the invisible manifestation of God.
 
Maybe another topic for discussion could be considered… Does anyone have any questions that you’ve been curious about…?😉
 
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