Baha'i understanding of revelation

[arthra]

Hmm… and I’m now wondering if my good old friend Brother David would concede that when Jesus spoke about His Return He was saying there could be a need for further Revelation…

Also recall the verse in scripture John 16:12

"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear…"

and recall John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come…"

 

[planten]

Hmm… and I’m now wondering if my good old friend Brother David would concede that when Jesus spoke about His Return He was saying there could be a need for further Revelation…

Also recall the verse in scripture John 16:12

"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear…"

and recall John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come…"

arthra, to whom these verses John 16:12-13 apply? Please explain. Give complete info because Jesus was giving indication of some one to come after him. Thanks.

 

[arthra]

Well of course my dear friend Platen and you are welcome! the verses apply in my view to that question that further revelation is needed and promised…

In the Baha’i view it applies to the Revelation of Prophet Muhammad which began on Mount Hira and later to the Proclamation of the Bab 1844 in Shiraz and Mecca and still later to that of Baha’u’llah in 1863 in Bagdad…

• Art

 

[planten]

Well of course my dear friend Platen and you are welcome! the verses apply in my view to that question that further revelation is needed and promised…

In the Baha’i view it applies to the Revelation of Prophet Muhammad which began on Mount Hira and later to the Proclamation of the Bab 1844 in Shiraz and Mecca and still later to that of Baha’u’llah in 1863 in Bagdad…

• Art

But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He will hear, that **He **will speak; and **He **will disclose to you what is to come…"

Dear Friend arthra, do you mean to say the word “He” mentioned in the bible in John 16:13 refers to many persons, not one person?? The continuation of Wahi is alright. i also believe in that. There have been many Muslim saints (Friends of Allah) who received the revealation. They described it, they wrote it in their books and published the same, whatever news they got from Allah.

There is no doubt about the continuation of the simple (non-law bearing) Wahi which does not form part of a revealed book. I am with you on that subject.

But to relate the word “He” of John 16:13 to many persons would be difficult to swallow. Already, the Catholics do not allow it for Muhammad. They say it is about the Holy spirit and not any man.

What do you say?? Do you believe that Bab heard the words from God and do you believe that Bahaullah also heard some words from God???

 

[arthra]

My dear friend Platen!

Prophecies can refer to more than one Prophet…

Some prophecies refer to Jesus and some to His Return…

In a sense we Baha’is believe Jesus, Prophet Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah are one…

From the Kitab-i-Iqan:

For this reason, hath the Point of the Bayan – may the life of all else but Him be His sacrifice! – likened the Manifestations of God unto the sun which, though it rise from the “Beginning that hath no beginning” until the “End that knoweth no end,” is none the less the same sun. Now, wert thou to say, that this sun is the former sun, thou speakest the truth; and if thou sayest that this sun is the “return” of that sun, thou also speakest the truth. Likewise, from this statement it is made evident that the term “last” is applicable to the “first,” and the term “first” applicable to the “last;” inasmuch as both the “first” and the “last” have risen to proclaim one and the same Faith.

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 161

They all manifest the same Light… Just as the Sun on Monday is the same Sun that shines on Tuesday and so on…!

• Art

 

[planten]

Arthra, Muhammad received revelation from God. I asked you some question. Please see below:

**What do you say?? Do you believe that Bab heard the words from God and do you believe that Bahaullah also heard some words from God??? **

Please reply if Bab and Bahaullah received revelation from God. Did they say that they received revelation i.e. Wahi, from God.?? Thanks.

 

[littlequestion]

In a thread on the Scripture forum about the meaning of 666 in the Bible there is a poster of the Baha’i faith.

He seems to have an issue with the Catholic Teaching that there will be no further public revelation following that of Jesus.

He states.

I am wondering why Joseph Smith and Moromism is left out of this list.

He didn’t mention Mary Baker Eddy or L Ron Hubbard either

 

[arthra]

“Verily I say, this is the Day in which mankind can behold the Face, and hear the Voice, of the Promised One. The Call of God hath been raised, and the light of His countenance hath been lifted up upon men. It behoveth every man to blot out the trace of every idle word from the tablet of his heart, and to gaze, with an open and unbiased mind, on the signs of His Revelation, the proofs of His Mission, and the tokens of His glory.”

~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 10

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

Arthra, Muhammad received revelation from God. I asked you some question. Please see below:

Please reply if Bab and Bahaullah received revelation from God. Did they say that they received revelation i.e. Wahi, from God.?? Thanks.

I have selected some examples to show how the term Wahi is used by Baha’u’llah.

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“Whoso openeth his lips in this Day and maketh mention of the name of his Lord, the hosts of Divine inspiration [wahi] shall descend upon him from the heaven of My name, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.”
(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 280)

"Dispute not with any one concerning the things of this world and its affairs, for God hath abandoned them to such as have set their affection upon them. Out of the whole world He hath chosen for Himself the hearts of men – hearts which the hosts of revelation and of utterance [al-wahi wa al-bayan] can subdue.
(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 279)

Were the breezes of **Revelation **[al-wahi] to seize thee, thou wouldst flee the world, and turn unto the Kingdom,
(Baha’u’llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 56)

This is the day whereon He Who is the Dayspring of Revelation [mashriq al-wahi] hath come with clear tokens
(Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 101)

"Think not that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power. To this beareth witness that which the **Pen of Revelation **[qalam al-wahi] hath revealed.
(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 332)

Should anyone offer thee all the treasures of the earth, refuse to even glance upon them. Be as thy Lord hath been. Thus hath the Tongue of Revelation [lisan al-wahi] spoken
(Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 61)

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In the first two, wahi seems to be used in the sense of inspiration by the Holy Spirit which reaches all who have not closed themselves to it. In the last three examples, it is Revelation and Inspiration with a capital letter, which comes to the Prophets from God. I believe you will find the same two uses of the word wahi in the Quran: is it not said that the bees receive wahi?

~~ Sen