Baha'i V

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. Herein lies the problem. In this “us” vs “them” mentality, where “I” win and “you” lose, the whole purpose for which the Manifestations, Prophets, Messengers of God (call them what you like) is lost. It isn’t about “me” vs “you”, my friend.

Nor was that the intent of my statement. We win because Christ has defeated sin and death. It was accomplished on the cross. That is why we know how the story ends. It has nothing to do with Catholic vs. Baha’i or anyone else, other than the enemy of our souls. Relax.

.

 

[daler]

Nor was that the intent of my statement. We win because Christ has defeated sin and death. It was accomplished on the cross. That is why we know how the story ends. It has nothing to do with Catholic vs. Baha’i or anyone else, other than the enemy of our souls. Relax.

.

Steve,
. Thank you for clarifying this. What the difficulty is in trying to unite the many camps people have been born into, the various Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu camps. Each has their own campfire, and no one is welcome to sit and warm themselves unless they praise the keeper of the flame above all others. Thus, the Jews remain in the camp of Moses, Christians in the camp of Jesus, Muslims in the camp of Muhammad, Buddhists in the camp of Buddha, Hindus in the camp of Krsna, etc, etc.

. People are “stuck” in this “old world order” which separates the children of men from warming themselves around the one great campfire wherein all are welcome. Gradually, over time, people are overcoming a little bit of their fear and xenophobia, stepping slowly out of their comfort zones, allowing their children to marry children of other colors, nationalities, races, and religions.

. There is a reason for this softening of the hearts. It has been effected by the Creator of all hearts. Still, some will keep away, out of fear or unfamiliarity. This is a natural human tendency, but it is also preventing the healing of the nations.

. A few of us have ventured away from our ancestral campfires, found ourselves welcome to sit at others’ campfires, found the people warm and friendly. It has been a joyous experience. Eventually, we met some who said there is a great campfire wherein all are welcome, regardless of color, beliefs, income, or national origin. We have come from that great universal campfire to invite others.

. There is a conversation going on around this great campfire. Here is a portion of it:

. "Behold the disturbances which, for many a long year, have afflicted the earth, and the perturbation that hath seized its peoples. It hath either been ravaged by war, or tormented by sudden and unforeseen calamities. Though the world is encompassed with misery and distress, yet no man hath paused to reflect what the cause or source of that may be. Whenever the True Counsellor uttered a word in admonishment, lo, they all denounced Him as a mover of mischief and rejected His claim. How bewildering, how confusing is such behavior! No two men can be found who may be said to be outwardly and inwardly united. The evidences of discord and malice are apparent everywhere, though all were made for harmony and union.

. The Great Being saith: O well-beloved ones! The tabernacle of unity hath been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers. Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. We cherish the hope that the light of justice may shine upon the world and sanctify it from tyranny. If the rulers and kings of the earth, the symbols of the power of God, exalted be His glory, arise and resolve to dedicate themselves to whatever will promote the highest interests of the whole of humanity, the reign of justice will assuredly be established amongst the children of men, and the effulgence of its light will envelop the whole earth.

. The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment…. In another passage He hath written: Take heed, O concourse of the rulers of the world! There is no force on earth that can equal in its conquering power the force of justice and wisdom…. Blessed is the king who marcheth with the ensign of wisdom unfurled before him, and the battalions of justice massed in his rear. He verily is the ornament that adorneth the brow of peace and the countenance of security. There can be no doubt whatever that if the day star of justice, which the clouds of tyranny have obscured, were to shed its light upon men, the face of the earth would be completely transformed."

. He Who speaks these words at this great campfire is known as Baha’u’llah, the Glory of God.

.

 

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. Thank you for clarifying this. What the difficulty is in trying to unite the many camps people have been born into, the various Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu camps. Each has their own campfire, and no one is welcome to sit and warm themselves unless they praise the keeper of the flame above all others. Thus, the Jews remain in the camp of Moses, Christians in the camp of Jesus, Muslims in the camp of Muhammad, Buddhists in the camp of Buddha, Hindus in the camp of Krsna, etc, etc.

. People are “stuck” in this “old world order” which separates the children of men from warming themselves around the one great campfire wherein all are welcome. Gradually, over time, people are overcoming a little bit of their fear and xenophobia, stepping slowly out of their comfort zones, allowing their children to marry children of other colors, nationalities, races, and religions.

Daler, the point is that there have historically been ebbs and flows in the degree of man’s inhumanity. But you are trying to create a picture that only exists in an idealistic state. We do not live in idealism, we live in the real world. And in this real world man’s brutality, intolerance, greed, pride, envy and utter disregard for the dignity of the human person is common and widespread throughout the globe.

We have not progressed in the slightest, really. I suppose we don’t burn witches and heretics anymore, and that is a good thing. Instead we kill the most innocent and defenseless among us; the unborn and the aged. People are still being murdered for their beliefs. I don’t have to repeat all the ills of the world. You know them as well as I.

There is only one answer and he came into the world about 2000 years ago. He revealed the truth about God and about our salvation; indeed, he is our God and our Salvation. And he knew there would be many who would refuse to hear it. “Narrow is the way and few there be that find it.” He allows the tares to grow up with the wheat. And then, in the fullness of time he will come and those that accepted his grace and mercy will be true children of God; no more pain or suffering or sadness or death. We will be united with God and with each other in a way that no human relationship can accomplish. It will never be accomplished by a human institution or man-made society and it will never happen in this world, until it is made new by Christ. That hasn’t happened yet.

 

[daler]

Daler, the point is that there have historically been ebbs and flows in the degree of man’s inhumanity. But you are trying to create a picture that only exists in an idealistic state. We do not live in idealism, we live in the real world. And in this real world man’s brutality, intolerance, greed, pride, envy and utter disregard for the dignity of the human person is common and widespread throughout the globe.

We have not progressed in the slightest, really. I suppose we don’t burn witches and heretics anymore, and that is a good thing. Instead we kill the most innocent and defenseless among us; the unborn and the aged. People are still being murdered for their beliefs. I don’t have to repeat all the ills of the world. You know them as well as I.

There is only one answer and he came into the world about 2000 years ago. He revealed the truth about God and about our salvation; indeed, he is our God and our Salvation. And he knew there would be many who would refuse to hear it. “Narrow is the way and few there be that find it.” He allows the tares to grow up with the wheat. And then, in the fullness of time he will come and those that accepted his grace and mercy will be true children of God; no more pain or suffering or sadness or death. We will be united with God and with each other in a way that no human relationship can accomplish. It will never be accomplished by a human institution or man-made society and it will never happen in this world, until it is made new by Christ. That hasn’t happened yet.

Well, my friend, this is where the word “faith” comes in. When people of faith meet to discuss their faith, words can only go so far. Then we can watch the world go to hell from our TV or laptop, and just grin and bear it, I suppose. It is very frustrating, to watch Syria, and whatever the next one will be. I’ve been watching this stuff since Viet Nam, and I suspect so have you. It gets old after while, wouldn’t you agree?

What is also a little frustrating is the problem of sharing differing understandings where faith is concerned. You and I believe in Jesus, and Moses, and Abraham, and then our neighbors across the sea believe in Muhammad, but you want to leave them out, I suppose, and ask them to hit the “delete” button on 1400 years of belief in Him, and only then can they enter heaven.

This is a deep subject, faith, and why we believe what we do. Some of it is a product of tradition, and some a matter of search. In my frustration from the days of Viet Nam, I was led to search. I figured there just had to be something out there in the world that would make sense of it. My town was split down the middle by railroad tracks where the Indians lived on one side and the whites on the other. They were poor and we were well off, but something else was backwards.

So I searched and prayed for answers, looking into their beliefs (Sioux), as well as Buddhist, Hindu, even Muslim, skipping right past Baha’i several times from around 1970 to 1980 until I was broken-backed and bankrupt, literally, and so humbled that all I could do was pray. Then somebody came along, invited me over for supper (I was living on popcorn and sleeping on the floor of a friend’s trailor in the middle of the winter) and I just prayed that they would invite me over again, just to get fed!

They did, and eventually I asked them what they believed, for I had tried everything, even becoming born again. Well, they were Baha’i, and I read what they gave me and prayed Baha’i prayers and received confirmations on a level I cannot put into words. I had finally found my Faith in a form that fit together like the last piece of a giant jigsaw puzzle. It was an “Aha” moment: called Baha, which means Glory, and thats my story…

.

 

[SteveVH]

Well, my friend, this is where the word “faith” comes in. When people of faith meet to discuss their faith, words can only go so far. Then we can watch the world go to hell from our TV or laptop, and just grin and bear it, I suppose. It is very frustrating, to watch Syria, and whatever the next one will be. I’ve been watching this stuff since Viet Nam, and I suspect so have you. It gets old after while, wouldn’t you agree?

Yes, I agree.

What is also a little frustrating is the problem of sharing differing understandings where faith is concerned. You and I believe in Jesus, and Moses, and Abraham, and then our neighbors across the sea believe in Muhammad, but you want to leave them out, I suppose, and ask them to hit the “delete” button on 1400 years of belief in Him, and only then can they enter heaven.

We have no intention of leaving them out. They are welcome to join the Catholic Church and the one true faith as is all of humanity. Would we ask them to hit the delete button on Muhammad? Yes, absolutely. He denies the saving work of Christ and minimizes Jesus as just another prophet, while ignoring his life and his words and the words of the Church he founded.

This is a deep subject, faith, and why we believe what we do. Some of it is a product of tradition, and some a matter of search. In my frustration from the days of Viet Nam, I was led to search. I figured there just had to be something out there in the world that would make sense of it. My town was split down the middle by railroad tracks where the Indians lived on one side and the whites on the other. They were poor and we were well off, but something else was backwards.

So I searched and prayed for answers, looking into their beliefs (Sioux), as well as Buddhist, Hindu, even Muslim, skipping right past Baha’i several times from around 1970 to 1980 until I was broken-backed and bankrupt, literally, and so humbled that all I could do was pray. Then somebody came along, invited me over for supper (I was living on popcorn and sleeping on the floor of a friend’s trailor in the middle of the winter) and I just prayed that they would invite me over again, just to get fed!

They did, and eventually I asked them what they believed, for I had tried everything, even becoming born again. Well, they were Baha’i, and I read what they gave me and prayed Baha’i prayers and received confirmations on a level I cannot put into words. I had finally found my Faith in a form that fit together like the last piece of a giant jigsaw puzzle. It was an “Aha” moment: called Baha, which means Glory, and thats my story…

Many people convert to a faith due to their circumstances in life at the time. It is understandable. Someone reaches out in a time of need and therefore must the be the genuine article. There are many good and kind people in the world of every race and religion. But they do not all possess the truth. It is the Truth that matters, is it not? In any case, I am happy that you are happy.

 

[Jcc1960]

Yes, I agree.

We have no intention of leaving them out. They are welcome to join the Catholic Church and the one true faith as is all of humanity. Would we ask them to hit the delete button on Muhammad? Yes, absolutely. He denies the saving work of Christ and minimizes Jesus as just another prophet, while ignoring his life and his words and the words of the Church he founded.

Many people convert to a faith due to their circumstances in life at the time. It is understandable. Someone reaches out in a time of need and therefore must the be the genuine article. There are many good and kind people in the world of every race and religion. But they do not all possess the truth. It is the Truth that matters, is it not? In any case, I am happy that you are happy.

Steve, would you say that on a personal level you have stopped searching for the Truth? Or, is there always more of the Truth to discover for every one of us?

 

[SteveVH]

Steve, would you say that on a personal level you have stopped searching for the Truth? Or, is there always more of the Truth to discover for every one of us?

By no means have I stopped searching for truth. The fact that the fullness of truth has been given to the Church does not mean that we have probed the very depths of God’s mystery. That is because it is infinite truth. The Church grows and matures in its understanding as the centuries pass.

But what I do know is that the truth is found in Christ; the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. As I have said before our faith is not based upon a gathering of writings. It is based upon a Person, Jesus Christ, the Creator of the universe and the Savior of mankind.

Jesus never spoke in terms of “Manifestations of God”. He claimed to be God himself, which is why he was crucified. Not the mirror, but rather the one staring into the mirror. If this is, indeed, God’s perfect plan, then was not the only begotten Son of God remise in his teachings He promised to send the Holy Spirit, and he did, and continues to do so, in order to guide his Church. He did not promise to send another human being to whom we should turn our gaze. Instead our gaze is turned only to Him.

So while you wish to imply that I am somewhat dull witted and have foolishly closed my mind to truth and instead blindly follow an outdated Church, that is really not the case at all. I haven’t just read a book, I have fallen in love and I enter into a one-flesh union with Jesus Christ; an experience beyond human expression. So one can argue this or that, but I don’t place my faith in idealistic theories and wonderful ideas of one-world governments.

The bottom line is this. Baha’u’llah did not die for my sins and cannot promise me eternal life. It’s really no contest.

 

[Servant19]

May I ask, who is the Father, and why is He greater than Jesus?

“the Father is greater than I” is historically deemed to refer to Jesus’ human aspect, but does the Father have a human aspect at all?

 

[Red_Sox_1]

May I ask, who is the Father, and why is He greater than Jesus?

“the Father is greater than I” is historically deemed to refer to Jesus’ human aspect, but does the Father have a human aspect at all?

Both the Son and the Father have human aspects. Christians are familiar with the human aspect of the Son and Baha’is are, in addition, also familiar with the human aspect of the Father.

 

[Jcc1960]

By no means have I stopped searching for truth. The fact that the fullness of truth has been given to the Church does not mean that we have probed the very depths of God’s mystery. That is because it is infinite truth. The Church grows and matures in its understanding as the centuries pass.

But what I do know is that the truth is found in Christ; the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. As I have said before our faith is not based upon a gathering of writings. It is based upon a Person, Jesus Christ, the Creator of the universe and the Savior of mankind.

Jesus never spoke in terms of “Manifestations of God”. He claimed to be God himself, which is why he was crucified. Not the mirror, but rather the one staring into the mirror. If this is, indeed, God’s perfect plan, then was not the only begotten Son of God remise in his teachings He promised to send the Holy Spirit, and he did, and continues to do so, in order to guide his Church. He did not promise to send another human being to whom we should turn our gaze. Instead our gaze is turned only to Him.

So while you wish to imply that I am somewhat dull witted and have foolishly closed my mind to truth and instead blindly follow an outdated Church, that is really not the case at all. I haven’t just read a book, I have fallen in love and I enter into a one-flesh union with Jesus Christ; an experience beyond human expression. So one can argue this or that, but I don’t place my faith in idealistic theories and wonderful ideas of one-world governments.

The bottom line is this. Baha’u’llah did not die for my sins and cannot promise me eternal life. It’s really no contest.

Baha’u’llah promises eternal life to all who believe in God and serve God.

So, you are open to a deeper understanding of God’s truth only within the Catholic Church and are closed to seeking it outside the Church?

I know some Catholics will say additionally that where other religions have teachings that are similar to Catholic teachings, they recognize the truth in those portions of the other faiths.

 

[Servant19]

We have no intention of leaving them out. They are welcome to join the Catholic Church and the one true faith as is all of humanity. Would we ask them to hit the delete button on Muhammad? Yes, absolutely. He denies the saving work of Christ and minimizes Jesus as just another prophet, while ignoring his life and his words and the words of the Church he founded.

To me, this is the difference.

When one is asked to hit the delete button, and deny a Person who has provided so much love, direction and purpose in their lives, it is difficult to foresee a true heaven on earth.

I really cannot possibly see how Jesus, if He is to come back in a Catholic sense, and destroy the world, and start a new one, that He would deny life to the Muslims unless they stopped loving Muhammad.

What is that?

I really does not sit well with my heart and soul and to be part of it would feel like rejecting God Himself. I’m sorry if that offends any Catholics, but think about the injustice in this concept……

 

[Servant19]

We have not progressed in the slightest, really. I suppose we don’t burn witches and heretics anymore, and that is a good thing. Instead we kill the most innocent and defenseless among us; the unborn and the aged. People are still being murdered for their beliefs. I don’t have to repeat all the ills of the world. You know them as well as I.

Yes, there has been tremendous progress.

According to the Baha’i Writings, the collective human race is considered like a body undergoing various stages of development. From its birth through childhood, it is written that the body of humanity is going through an adolescent period and entering into a stage of collective maturity.

As with all adolescents, there are various things going on, and these forces are considered either integrative or disintegrative.

---

"Penetrating, indeed, is Shoghi Effendi’s depiction of the process of disintegration accelerating in the world. Equally striking is the accuracy with which he analyzed the forces associated with the process of integration. He spoke of a “gradual diffusion of the spirit of world solidarity which is spontane- ously arising out of the welter of a disorganized society” as an indirect manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh’s conception of the principle of the oneness of humankind. This spirit of solidarity has continued to spread over the decades, and today its effect is apparent in a range of developments, from the rejection of deeply ingrained racial prejudices to the dawning consciousness of world citizenship, from heightened environmental awareness to collaborative efforts in the promotion of public health, from the concern for human rights to the systematic pursuit of universal education, from the establishment of interfaith activities to the efflorescence of hundreds of thousands of local, national and international organizations engaged in some form of social action.

Yet for the followers of Bahá’u’lláh the most significant developments in the process of integration are those directly related to the Faith, many of which were nurtured by the Guardian himself and which have advanced tremendously since their modest beginnings."***

(Turning Point 38.7)

The disintegration LEADS to integration and the Baha’i community is providing an example of what “integration” actually means….

Dear friends, Steve has pointed out some of the ecumenical efforts that the Catholic Church is involved in and these inter-faith engagements are wonderful indeed.

The Baha’i Revelation is asking for more….

I am very much involved with inter-faith dialogue and community building endeavours, voluntary work etc at my home town, and I see it every single time. Catholics and Muslims do not mix. Steve has pointed out 3 million people at the World Youth Day event, from various backgrounds. I would love to see how many Muslims were there, and similarly, Catholics at any large Islamic events.

On the other hand, Islamic, Catholic, Jewish events are gleefully attended by Baha’is should the hand of invitation be stretched, and the hand of invitation is always outstretched for all Faiths to partake in the path of service with Baha’is. There is never any need to lose your identity or Faith in Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, in fact you are encouraged to love Them more.

I pray this post is received in the spirit of love and solidarity it is intended

 

[Servant19]

further thoughts on integration and disintegration:

***"Our fellow human beings everywhere are insensibly subjected at one and the same time to the conflicting emotions incited by the continuous operation of simultaneous processes of “rise and of fall, of integration and of disintegration, of order and chaos.” These Shoghi Effendi identified as aspects of the Major Plan and Minor Plan of God, the two known ways in which His purpose for humankind is going forward. The Major Plan is associated with turbulence and calamity and proceeds with an apparent, random disorderliness, but is, in fact, inexorably driving humanity towards unity and maturity. Its agency for the most part is the people who are ignorant of its course and even antagonistic towards its aim. As Shoghi Effendi has pointed out, God’s Major Plan uses “both the mighty and the lowly as pawns in His world-shaping game, for the fulfill- ment of His immediate purpose and the eventual establishment of His Kingdom on earth.” The acceleration of the processes it generates is lending impetus to developments which, with all the initial pain and heartache attributable to them, we Bahá’ís see as signs of the emergence of the Lesser Peace.

Unlike His Major Plan, which works mysteriously, God’s Minor Plan is clearly delineated, operates according to orderly and well-known processes, and has been given to us to execute. Its ultimate goal is the Most Great Peace. The four-year-long campaign, at the mid-point of which we have arrived, constitutes the current stage in the Minor Plan. It is to the achievement of its purpose that we must all devote our attention and energies.

At times it may seem that the operation of the Major Plan causes a disruption in the work of the Minor Plan, but the friends have every reason to remain undismayed. For they recog- nize the source of the recurrent turbulence at play in the world and, in the words of our Guardian, “acknowledge its necessity, observe confidently its mysterious processes, ardently pray for the mitigation of its severity, intelligently labor to assuage its fury, and anticipate, with undimmed vision, the consummation of the fears and the hopes it must necessarily engender.*”**

 

[Emese]

To me, this is the difference.

When one is asked to hit the delete button, and deny a Person who has provided so much love, direction and purpose in their lives, it is difficult to foresee a true heaven on earth.

I really cannot possibly see how Jesus, if He is to come back in a Catholic sense, and destroy the world, and start a new one, that He would deny life to the Muslims unless they stopped loving Muhammad.

What is that?

I really does not sit well with my heart and soul and to be part of it would feel like rejecting God Himself. I’m sorry if that offends any Catholics, but think about the injustice in this concept……

The Church has moved on with the Second Vatican Council towards the better understanding of different faith groups. I would call this “no salvation outside” theory some catholics seem to represent as “old school”. So I’d say there IS ecumenical spirit, there is a movement of “unity” whithin the Church as well. You might also want to look at for example the focolare movement or the taize community (the latter actually started out protestant but became embraced by the catholic church as well).

I think it was Daler who described this beautifully with his campfire metaphore. We ARE all sitting around the fire, maybe as groups of acquaintances, but around the SAME fire.

 

[Jcc1960]

The Church has moved on with the Second Vatican Council towards the better understanding of different faith groups. I would call this “no salvation outside” theory some catholics seem to represent as “old school”. So I’d say there IS ecumenical spirit, there is a movement of “unity” whithin the Church as well. You might also want to look at for example the focolare movement or the taize community (the latter actually started out protestant but became embraced by the catholic church as well).

I think it was Daler who described this beautifully with his campfire metaphore. We ARE all sitting around the fire, maybe as groups of acquaintances, but around the SAME fire.

Yes! And the one SAME Fire we sit around is God, receiving warmth and light and life from the same source.

 

[Vouthon]

I am very much involved with inter-faith dialogue and community building endeavours, voluntary work etc at my home town, and I see it every single time. Catholics and Muslims do not mix. Steve has pointed out 3 million people at the World Youth Day event, from various backgrounds. I would love to see how many Muslims were there, and similarly, Catholics at any large Islamic events.

Dear Servant,

Friend what do you mean by this? I went to Catholic school as a child and Muslims were the largest number among non-Catholics. Many of my friends growing up were Muslims, so pray tell me what this means? I don’t get it

No other Christian denomination has given Muslims the honour of being mentioned in strictly positive terms in an official Catechism of doctrinal teaching or in an ecumenical council where the Catholic Church recognised them as belonging to the family of Abraham.

Paragraph 16 of The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium) from the Second Vatican Council reads, in part:

“…In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind…”

I’m afraid I’ll have to get my “handy” quotes out again

“…Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection…The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition…On this path, you are assured, of the esteem and the collaboration of your Catholic brothers and sisters whom I represent among you this evening…”

- Blessed Pope John Paul II: Address to young Muslims in Casablanca, 1985

“…This good action was inspired in your heart by God, the Creator of all things, without whom we can neither do nor think any good thing. He who enlightens all men coming into this world (John 1.9) has enlightened your mind for this purpose. Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. This affection we and you owe to each other in a more peculiar way than to people of other races because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore Him as the creator and ruler of this world. For, in the words of the Apostle, ‘He is our peace who hath made both one.’ This good action was inspired in your heart by God…This grace granted to you by God is admired and praised by many of the Roman nobility who have learned from us of your benevolence and high qualities . . .] For God knows that we love you purely for His honour and that we desire your salvation and glory, both in this life and in the life to come. And we pray in our hearts and with our lips that God may lead you to the abode of happiness, to the bosom of the holy patriarch Abraham, after long years of life here on earth…”

***- Pope St. Gregory VII, Letter XXI to Al-Nasir the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya (Algeria), 1076 ***

“…Now [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim religion especially, deserving of our admiration for all that is true and good in their worship of God…”

***- Servant of God Pope Paul VI, Ecclesiam Suam 107, August 6, 1964 ***

Blessed Pope John XXIII back in the 50s praised the Muslim mystic Rumi on behalf of the entire Catholic World:

"…In the name of the Catholic World, I bow with respect before the memory of Rumi…”

***- Pope John XXIII, Message to Mevlevi Order in Turkey, 1958 ***

How much further do you expect us to go?

 

[Vouthon]

Speaking of interfaith gatherings…Pope John Paul II invited representatives of the Baha’i Faith to his “World Day of Prayer for Peace” in 1986 and 2002.

I ask this question: **How many religions have succeeded in bringing so many people from different religions together in one spot to pray in unity and embrace those areas we share in common? **

Not many would arrange such a massive, interfaith event as this…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Prayer#World_Day_of_Prayer_for_Peace

"Pope John Paul II organized the first World Day of Prayer for Peace in Assisi, Italy, on October 27, 1986. In all there were 160 religious leaders spending the day together with fasting and praying to their God or Gods. They represented 32 Christian religious organizations and 11 other non-Christian world religions, including:

• Christian religions and organizations:
  o Roman Catholic Church
  o Greek Orthodox Church
  o Russian Orthodox Church
  o World Council of Churches
  o World YWCA
  o World Alliance of YMCA’s
  o Friends World Committee for Consultation (Quakers)
  o Mennonite World Conference
  o Reformed Ecumenical Synod
  o Baptist World Alliance
  o Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
  o World Alliance of Reformed Churches
  o Lutheran World Federation
  o Anglican Communion
  o Old Catholic Church of Utrecht
  o Assyrian Church of the East
• Hinduism
• Sikhism
• Buddhism
• Judaism
• Islam
• African and North American animists
• Shintoism
• Zoroastrianism
• Baha’i

In 1993, John Paul II repeated the Day of Prayer to pray for an end to the war in Bosnia, and invited leaders of the Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions. And on January 24, 2002, he organized another World Day of Prayer for Peace, again in Assissi. Some 200 other religious leaders were present, including Roman Catholic cardinals, Muslim clerics, Jewish rabbis, Buddhists, Sikhs, Bahais, Hindus, Jains, Zoroastrians and members of African traditional religions. Following the September 11, 2001, terrorism attacks, the event intended to discourage making religion a motive for conflict in the 21st Century."

In 2011 Pope Benedict extended the list of “religions” by inviting agnostics as well.

Commenting on the 1982 event which he organised, Blessed Pope John Paul II stated:

"…I have wished to recall the ancient doctrine formulated by the Fathers of the Church, which says that we must recognize “the seeds of the Word” present and active in the various religions (Ad gentes, n. 11; Lumen gentium, n. 17). This doctrine leads us to affirm that, though the routes taken may be different, “there is but a single goal to which is directed the deepest aspiration of the human spirit as expressed in its quest for God and also in its quest, through its tending towards God, for the full dimension of its humanity, or in other words, for the full meaning of human life” (Redemptor hominis, n. 11).

The “seeds of truth” present and active in the various religious traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God, who “enlightens every man coming into world” (cf. Jn 1:9) and who became flesh in Christ Jesus (cf. Jn 1:14). They are together an “effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body” and which “blows where it wills” (Jn 3:8; cf. Redemptor hominis, nn. 6, 12).

**Every quest of the human spirit for truth and goodness, and in the last analysis for God, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The various religions arose precisely from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God’s Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions.

In every authentic religious experience, the most characteristic expression is prayer. **Because of the human spirit’s constitutive openness to God’s action of urging it to self-transcendence, we can hold that “every authentic prayer is called forth by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person”. We experienced an eloquent manifestation of this truth at the World Day of Prayer for Peace on 27 October 1986 in Assisi, and on other similar occasions of great spiritual intensity.

1. The Holy Spirit is not only present in other religions through authentic expressions of prayer. “The Spirit’s presence and activity”, as I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio, “affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions” (n. 28). Indeed, the Spirit is at the origin of the noble ideals and undertakings which benefit humanity on its journey through history…For the reasons mentioned here, the attitude of the Church and of individual Christians towards other religions is marked by sincere respect, profound sympathy and, when possible and appropriate, cordial collaboration. This does not mean forgetting that Jesus Christ is the one Mediator and Saviour of the human race. Nor does it mean lessening our missionary efforts, to which we are bound in obedience to the risen Lord’s command…The attitude of respect and dialogue is instead the proper recognition of the “seeds of the Word” and the “groanings of the Spirit”…May the Spirit of truth and love, in view of the third millennium now close at hand, guide us on the paths of the proclamation of Jesus Christ and of the dialogue of peace and brotherhood with the followers of all religions!.."

- Blessed Pope John Paul II, General Audience Address, September 16, 1998, Vatican

 

[Vouthon]

Vouthon,
. What a wonderful tradition, to honor collectively the most selfless and noble among us. The list is long, and many are the unsung heroes worthy to be on that list.

. Thank you for the charity of your good words and the generosity of your spirit. You are always a breath of fresh air, my friend. (and I nominate that you be on that list, too…

.

Bless you Daler. It is a wonderful day and period indeed, in honour of the dead. Today is All Souls Day All Saints Day is an occasion for remembering particularly those unsung and heroic souls who have not been officially canonized and are indeed many throughout the world, doing small acts of kindness but with great love which is what is important. Thank you for noting that!

Your words are very kind; very, very kind and I appreciate them although I must correct you on one point my friend: I am no saint!!! No, no, no…I am a sinner and a frequent one at that. I err continually, because I am fallen and fallible I’m only contributing posts to a thread. Hopefully they are received in a spirit of friendliness and openness as I intend. I am glad to see that you receive them in that way.

 

[Red_Sox_1]

Vouthon,

Your words and tone struck me. I am embarrassed now to have participated in the Non-Catholic portion of this forum.

God bless all Catholics

 

[Vouthon]

Vouthon,

Your words and tone struck me. I am embarrassed now to have participated in the Non-Catholic portion of this forum.

God bless all Catholics

Bless you in kind Red and thank you! But why are you embarrassed my friend?