Baha'i V

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Hi Josh, I will attempt an answer to your questions if I may. I’m sure Tony and others will offer some thoughts 🙂

In regards to the Son of God, Baha’is verify that Jesus was the Son of God. Jesus Himself did call Himself a Prophet also, and so Baha’is assert He was a Prophet with a unique station and relationship with God which differs from some of the other Prophets of the Old Testament such as Ezekial and Daniel.

Hope this helps 🙂
i dont think Jesus ever said he was a prophet either.

but he did say I AM.now, what does that say to you?
 
how will the bahai compel compliance with their agenda without using violence?
 
there is no reason to believe the bahai teachings are the sole basis for a fruitful society.

there is no reason to believe that the bahai religious believers should be able to use violence to coerce compliance with their teachings.

both of the above statements, which reject bahai teachings, are enough reason to reject bahaism and all that it teaches.

really, the bahai advocacy of violence should in itself alone be adequate justification for rejecting bahai in its totality.
Eddie - May I offer a correction of your statements, as Sen has said above you may have misread!

The Baha’i writings do not say they are the Sole Basis of Truth for a Fruitful Society. Every Holy Book to date are included in the Teachings, for Truth is One and not multipul. What Baha’u’llah has told us that we must turn to the Latest revelation of God to get the full meaning of all the previous Scriptures. On that basis We beleive that the Baha’i Writings form the latest Guidance to man from God.

The Baha’i Faith is 100% non violent, I am not sure where Violence came in to the argument - There are hundreds of quotes I could post but we will just acknowledge you misquoted the Baha’i Faith here.

This link - bahai-library.com/nsa_war_governance_conscience - Quotes from link - Bahá’u’lláh stated that His coming had “annulled the rule of the sword” and forbade resort to violence as a means of spreading His Faith or, presumably, for any “just cause”. 'Abdu’l-Bahá reserved the strongest possible language for His condemnation of war: “Peace is light whereas war is darkness. Peace is life; war is death. Peace is guidance; war is error. Peace is the foundation of God; war is satanic institution.”

“Baha’is abhor and unequivocally oppose violence.Baha’u’llah said that it is better to be killed than to kill. The Baha’i Writings clearly state that violence, whether between individuals or between nations, must end. Baha’is particularly oppose war and inter-religious violence, and work globally to end them. For Baha’is, love for all Faiths and all people is the best antidote to violence”. - bahaiteachings.org/terrorism-and-religious-fanaticism

"A Baha’i denies no religion; he accepts the Truth in all, and would die to uphold it. He loves all men as his brothers, of whatever class, of whatever race or nationality, of whatever creed or colour, whether good or bad, rich or poor, beautiful or hideous. He commits no violence; if he is struck he does not return the blow. (Abdu’l-Baha, Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 56)

Regards Tony
 
oh okay, haha I was on the thread titled “Why is christianity right and islam wrong?” and assumed Baha’i had to do with Islam.

So Is Baha’i a form of Christianity?

Could you provide me with a link please?

I believe in one lord Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God, born of the father before all ages.

I believe in One God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

At this point, I am not too sure where we differ just yet, I don’t really know enough about Baha’i yet to know what we differ on, so far it sounds like your agreeing with alot of what us Christians believe.God Bless Thank you for reading Josh
Josh So was I on the Islam thread, when I thought we were here, woops! 😊

Baha’u’llah has shown us that to Know and to Love God, our purpose in life, is only possible through the Prophets. Who so has recognized the Prophets has Recognized God. Thus a Christian does this through Christ as does a Muslim do this through Muhammad. With Baha’u’llahs Revelation we are told that they are all One and the same (they only differ because of the time they came and the message they delivered to suit the time). So a Baha’i gets to Know and Love God through all the Manifestations and recognise Baha’u’llah as the Promised One foretold by all the religions.

This is a link to the Bahai Library and writings - reference.bahai.org/en/

Your belief in God through Christ is what Life is all about, may God Bless.

Sorry - Have to go to work, may we have a chat again 👍

Regards Tony
 
The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the unity of God and of His Prophets, upholds the principle of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all forms of superstition and prejudice, teaches that the fundamental purpose of religion is to promote concord and harmony, that it must go hand-in-hand with science, and that it constitutes the sole and ultimate basis of a peaceful, an ordered and progressive society. It inculcates the principle of equal opportunity, rights and privileges for both sexes, advocates compulsory education, abolishes extremes of poverty and wealth, exalts work performed in the spirit of service to the rank of worship, recommends the adoption of an auxiliary international language, and provides the necessary agencies for the establishment and safeguarding of a permanent and universal peace.

~ Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion

the words sole and compulsory are quite evident in the above quotation.
 
A Catholic relationship is based upon having a one-flesh union with him; an intimacy that no other religion possesses.

This is just a false premise, daler. Jesus is not a shape shifter. He is Jesus then, now and forever, not Abraham or Moses or Muhammad or Baha’u’llah. By the way, Moses would be the last person to equate himself with Christ, as would Abraham.
Steve,
. This is an important aspect, I believe. “Jesus” had no earthly shape or form before being born to Mary, right?
. Then His earthly human form was 1/2 Mary’s DNA, which evolved like the rest of us to match the environment we live in, or a biological form suited the chemical and physical pressures.

. What happens on all the other planets out there, hypothetically, where God sends His Prophets and a Figure like Jesus to save them. Will He be the single earthly Jesus, buzzing around the universe?

. The point being this. That how we identify God’s eternal Messenger will always be in the physical identity we are familiar with. Such an eternal Being Who existed before Abraham was, i.e. “I AM” has no need of elements, except for our benefit.

. When He appears, He “sews” Himself a garment of flesh, so to speak. Why could He not simply sew Himself a new garment, or new human identity, in keeping with John the Baptist being the Promised Return of Elijah?

. Just for the sake of hypotheticals, what about the other billions of habitable planets idea, if you care to respond to this head scratcher, just for fun, please.

Thanks, brother
 
The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the unity of God and of His Prophets, upholds the principle of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all forms of superstition and prejudice, teaches that the fundamental purpose of religion is to promote concord and harmony, that it must go hand-in-hand with science, and that it constitutes the sole and ultimate basis of a peaceful, an ordered and progressive society. It inculcates the principle of equal opportunity, rights and privileges for both sexes, advocates compulsory education, abolishes extremes of poverty and wealth, exalts work performed in the spirit of service to the rank of worship, recommends the adoption of an auxiliary international language, and provides the necessary agencies for the establishment and safeguarding of a permanent and universal peace.

~ Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion

the words sole and compulsory are quite evident in the above quotation.
Eddie,
. This is in keeping with “This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the present.”

. As to education, ignorant and illiterate people have a right to education even in societies where their parents would prefer to have them working in the fields at age 4 or 5. The parents are therefore required, compulsory, to educate their children for the sake of the children.

. Do you understand these two concepts better now?

Thanks, Eddie
 
I give up. You are not interested in trying to convey your ideas (which I do know), you are interested in trying to appear as attractive as possible. I bet you will totally ignore this question, are Christians worshipping that which is not God, therefore committing gross idolatry? Can you at least attempt to answer this question and not meander around it with the attempt of trying to appear profound?
Ignatian,
. I am absolutely sure that Christians are worshipping God, unless for example, they are praying to a little plastic image of Jesus or something. I knew a Hindu couple in their 20s and as we became friends, one day she showed me a little statue of Krsna which she bathed everyday, giving Him a bath.
. Now I don’t think that she was worshipping that little statue, or that Christians are worshipping statues in the Church, although maybe some are. I don’t know how you perceive yourself to worship, but the following comes to mind:

John 4:24.

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
 
the bahai’s primary emphasis on changing this world indicates they are much more a political party, system, philosophy than they are a religion.

they chant, thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven as though our Lord was teaching us to pray a monumental governmental system that would establish the bahai’s vision of a good society through coercion.

they do not understand that the kingdom of God occurs within individual hearts and that is what the Lord’s prayer is all about.

certainly, if a large majority of people experienced a conversion of heart and acted upon that conversion, the world would improve.

but, if Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and His conquering of physical death in His resurrection does not convert hearts, it is more than improbable that babbling about one’s own supremacy is going to do it.
 
Ignatian,
. I am absolutely sure that Christians are worshipping God, unless for example, they are praying to a little plastic image of Jesus or something. I knew a Hindu couple in their 20s and as we became friends, one day she showed me a little statue of Krsna which she bathed everyday, giving Him a bath.
. Now I don’t think that she was worshipping that little statue, or that Christians are worshipping statues in the Church, although maybe some are. I don’t know how you perceive yourself to worship, but the following comes to mind:

John 4:24.

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
Lets examine this statement and see how the bahai belief falls apart, why no one really has to become bahai, according to bahai. I confess jesus as God, I wroship him, i praise and adore him as my creator and eternal savior. I worship the father and the son and the holy spirit, confessing all three to of the same substance.

Now, it is critically important that you answer directly. Don’t avoid my question. I am tired of having to ask this of bahai, that they answer the question as directly as possible, but i can’t give bahai the benefit of the doubt anymore. You don’t want to answer questions directly, so I will demand you answer this question directly.

in me worshipping Jesus as God, the person Jesus, not the father (though I worship the father and the spirit as well), am I worshipping the true God? DONT DARE SAY YOU BELIEVE HE IS DIVINE. DONT PRETEND TO AGREE. Be clear, sincere and honest for once.
 
Ignatian, have you read the thread from your previous post up until the post you just made above?
 
A Catholic relationship is based upon having a one-flesh union with him; an intimacy that no other religion possesses.
Actually Steve, Baha’is on a regular basis enjoy a FEAST with our Lord. This is our union, our Last Supper with His Divinity.
There is wonderful spiritual fortitude and nearness to be gained from this Feast 🙂
This is just a false premise, daler. Jesus is not a shape shifter. He is Jesus then, now and forever, not Abraham or Moses or Muhammad or Baha’u’llah. By the way, Moses would be the last person to equate himself with Christ, as would Abraham.
Yes He is Jesus, a man who said “the Father is greater than I” while at the same time He is Jesus who said “before Abraham was, I am”

Baha’u’llah too was a man who said “when I consider my own self, lo I find it coarser than clay” while at the same time He was the voice who spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush, and also to Whom Jesus prayed to on the Cross.

Do you see a rational pattern here, friend? 🙂

I’m not related to Baha’u’llah nor to Jesus, so I have no vested interest, but for any rational, objective observer, surely, this strikes as a similarity that they share, while at the same time it most definitely is BEYOND any layperson human’s condition.
 
Ignatian, have you read the thread from your previous post up until the post you just made above?
No, answer my question clearly and concisely. Do not avoid the essence of my question by trying to appear as if we are all happy and agree. Do we as Christians, when we worship Jesus christ of Nazereth worship that which is not God? Yes or no?
 
Oh okay, 👍 So why are Baha’is not Christians?

I’m not sure where it say’s that in the Gospels, could you please let me know where this passage is? because I can’t find Jesus reffering to himself as only a prophet in the Gospels.

Thank you.

God Bless

Josh
Hi there Josh, firstly my apologies. I mistakenly said that Jesus SAID that He was a Prophet, but this was only implied in Matthew 13:57. Also on the road to Emmaeus, it is evident that many of His disciples regarded Him as a Prophet too 🙂

Why are Baha’is not Christians?

Well, this is because we come with the good news and gald tidings of Jesus Return in the glory of the Father, in the new name of Baha’u’llah (the Glory of the Lord)

God bless you friend 🙂

Feel free to browse through the thread to get more insights, or go to www.bahai.org for more information, and please do not hesitate to quiz us about anything 🙂

p.s where abouts in Australia are you from?
 
No, answer my question clearly and concisely. Do not avoid the essence of my question by trying to appear as if we are all happy and agree. Do we as Christians, when we worship Jesus christ of Nazereth worship that which is not God? Yes or no?
Have you possibly, just possibly considered that the previous questions you posed (that you accused the Baha’is of being dishonest about) have been answered.

Why not provide genuine, courteous dialogue friend?

Its difficult going from one abuse to another from you. Dishonesty is unfair that you accuse us of, and when we respond as honestly as possible, you don’t even READ the responses.

What the??? :confused:

🙂
 
Josh had a few questions…

Jesus alluded to Himself as a Prophet when He was in His own town …

A Prophet is not without honor except in His own town…

And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
  • Matthew 13:57
Thank you arthra.

If a prophet is not welcome amongst their own hometown, how much more so the one who speaks through the prophets?

Do you notice though how Jesus always cast out demons, cured the sick, and did miracles in His own name? Also, on several occasions Jesus deliberately said; **“I AM”. **This would never have been taken lightly by any Jew of Jesus’ time.

Also Jesus’ words in John 10:30, **“I and the Father are one.” **When first encountered, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, when we look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “For a good work we stone thee not; replied the Jews, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” (John 10:33). Now we see an actual claim. The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” I believe that indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. " Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord’s connection to **“I Am”. **See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58,and 13:19.

John 1:1 also says that **“the Word was God.” **John 1:14 says that “**And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” ** I believe this indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.

I also refer to Matthew 3:17 "Then a voice from heaven said, “This is my own dear Son, and I am pleased with him.” or Matthew 5:5-6 "Next, the devil took Jesus to the holy city and had him stand on the highest part of the temple. 6 The devil said, “If you are God’s Son, jump off. The Scriptures say: ‘God will give his angels orders about you. They will catch you in their arms, and you won’t hurt your feet on the stones.’”

I could go on for ages the many examples I have come accross in the Gospels, however I believe my post would be too long, in short, Jesus always avoided saying that he was the Son of God when speaking, because he wanted people to see it, to recognise who he was, this is why Jesus said to his disciples, “Who do people say that I am?” Luke 9:18-21,
Mark 8:27-30, Matthew 16:13-20.
"Gospel of Matthew:
**Matthew 16:13-20

Who Is Jesus?

13 When Jesus and his disciples were near the town of Caesarea Philippi, he asked them, “What do people say about the Son of Man?”

14 The disciples answered, “Some people say you are John the Baptist or maybe Elijah[a] or Jeremiah or some other prophet.”

15 Then Jesus asked them, “But who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter spoke up, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus told him:

Simon, son of Jonah, you are blessed! You didn’t discover this on your own. It was shown to you by my Father in heaven. 18 So I will call you Peter, which means “a rock.” On this rock I will build my church, and death itself will not have any power over it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and God in heaven will allow whatever you allow on earth. But he will not allow anything that you don’t allow.

20 Jesus told his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.**
Josh also asked if the Baha’i Faith was a form of Christianity…

Baha’i Faith is an independent religion… which recognizes the previous dispensations of Islam and Christianity and Judaism and their Holy Books…but also having it’s own Writings.

A summary follows:

The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the unity of God and of His Prophets, upholds the principle of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all forms of superstition and prejudice, teaches that the fundamental purpose of religion is to promote concord and harmony, that it must go hand-in-hand with science, and that it constitutes the sole and ultimate basis of a peaceful, an ordered and progressive society. It inculcates the principle of equal opportunity, rights and privileges for both sexes, advocates compulsory education, abolishes extremes of poverty and wealth, exalts work performed in the spirit of service to the rank of worship, recommends the adoption of an auxiliary international language, and provides the necessary agencies for the establishment and safeguarding of a permanent and universal peace.

~ Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion
👍

That’s all good, but I’m just curious, because for me it comes down to, is Jesus Christ the Son of God? is he the Messaih? because if you take Judaism, for example, they still believe the Messaih is yet to come, and I assume Islam also believe this, so thus if you acknowledge all of them, than what is your view of the Messiah? is he coming? has he already been? is Jesus the Messiah? if Jesus was teh Messiah than what does that say about Judaism and Islam? Because as you guys say, I also recognise truth in Judaism and Islam, but I believe Jesus is the Messiah, the only beggotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages, God from God. Thus why I am Christian.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
the bahai’s primary emphasis on changing this world indicates they are much more a political party, system, philosophy than they are a religion.
Eddie …

I don’t know how many Baha’is you’ve met but one thing for sure we’re not involved in partisan politics…

We’re required to register independent or decline to state.

We’re forbidden to be involved in partisan politics…We can vote privately for whom we please in an election but not as a voter registered in a political party.

Most Catholics I know are a lot more involved in politics than any Baha’i.

“…whoever among the friends participates in partisan politics or becomes a member of a political party is expelled from the Bahá’í community…”

~ The Universal House of Justice, Messages 1963 to 1986, p. 395

When we hold elections for say a Local Spiritual Assembly or our National Spiritual Assembly or for the Universal House of Justice… there are no nominations or campaigning allowed nor are there any parties or caucuses allowed. we vote secret ballot after prayer.
 
Have you possibly, just possibly considered that the previous questions you posed (that you accused the Baha’is of being dishonest about) have been answered.

Why not provide genuine, courteous dialogue friend?

Its difficult going from one abuse to another from you. Dishonesty is unfair that you accuse us of, and when we respond as honestly as possible, you don’t even READ the responses.

What the??? :confused:

🙂
Yes I accuse the bahai of dishonesty when they refuse to answer questions directly and plainly. Like you are doing now. Will you at least attempt to answer it? Do Christians, when they worship Jesus Christ whom they consider the eternal second person of the trinity who became incarnate in history, taking on a second nature as God, do tehy worship that which is not God? Yes or no?
 
Thank you arthra.

That’s all good, but I’m just curious, because for me it comes down to, is Jesus Christ the Son of God? is he the Messaih? because if you take Judaism, for example, they still believe the Messaih is yet to come, and I assume Islam also believe this, so thus if you acknowledge all of them, than what is your view of the Messaih? is he coming? has he already been? is Jesus the Messaih? if Jesus was teh Messaih than what does that say about Judaism and Islam? Because as you guys say, I also recognise truth in Judaism and Islam, but I believe Jesus is the Messaih, the only beggotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages, God from God. Thus why I am Christian.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
Thanks Josh…

Allow me to respond to your questions… Please understand that you may differ as a Catholic with what I’m sharing with you…but it is nonetheless our beliefs and why I’m sharing them with you here on this forum!

Baha’is accept that Jesus was the Messiah … So in our view if you lived in the time of Jesus to refuse to recognize Him would be your great spiritual loss. So we accept Jesus.

If the manifestation and the reflection of the divine perfections were not in Christ, Jesus would not be the Messiah. He is a Manifestation because He reflects in Himself the divine perfections. The Prophets of God are manifestations for the lordly perfections – that is, the Holy Spirit is apparent in Them.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 127

The Qur’an also acknowledges that Jesus was the Messiah…

3:40* Remember when the angel said, "O Mary! Verily God announceth to thee
the Word from Him: His name shall be, Messiah Jesus the son of Mary,

illustrious in this world, and in the next, and one of those who have near
access to God;*
Code:
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura   3 - The Family of Imran)
Regarding Jesus as the Son of God:

It is true that Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God, but this, as explained by Bahá’u’lláh in the 'Íqán, does not indicate any Physical relationship whatever. Its meaning is entirely spiritual and points to the close relationship existing between Him and the Almighty God. Nor does it necessarily indicate any inherent superiority in the station of Jesus over other Prophets and Messengers. As far as their spiritual nature is concerned all Prophets can be regarded as Sons of God, as they all reflect His light, though not in an equal measure, and this difference in reflection is due to the conditions and circumstances under which they appear."
  • Shoghi Effendi

    (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 491)
 
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