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Orogeny
Guest
So, He didn’t help them celebrate the sins that they were planning on committing? Kinda defeats your continuing point. Do you think He would have baked the cake and *then *told them to go and sin no more?
Peace
Tim
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Peace
Tim
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Kouyate42
Guest
It’s a cake. It only has meaning if people believe it to have any meaning. The only issue here isn’t that they bought a cake, but that they bought a cake specifically for a wedding. Their own same-sex marriage.
And too many Christians seem to think homosexuality to be the only sin in the world, or at least the biggest of millions. Would this baker refuse to sell a cake to someone who reads their horoscope? Someone who has taken the name of HaShem in vain? Someone who is remarried? Someone who’s ever used condoms/the Pill? Someone who’s ever spoken badly of someone? Or lied? Or stolen? I think you get the idea…too many Christians, including Catholics, seem to forget that we ALL sin.
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Orogeny
Guest
No, I know what you wrote.
Let’s see if I was twisting your words. You wrote:
How did I twist your words? Or did you mean to write something else?
“Gay marriage” is not just unnatural. First off, there is no such thing. Second, it is an offense against human dignity in that it encourages and celebrates sinful activities.
Peace
Tim
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Orogeny
Guest
I must say, the moral relativism in some of the posts on this thread are amusing, if sad. It seems that, according to some, because everyone sins, we should therefore support people in their sinful acts and shame on anyone whose conscience doesn’t allow them to do so.
Peace
Tim
Peace
Tim
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catharina
Guest
Totally agree with you. Very well stated.
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Debora123
Guest
I think some people feel as though making a cake for a paying customer’s wedding doesn’t mean you support the wedding… it just means you’re a cake making business and you make cakes for people who pay you to make cakes.
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Kouyate42
Guest
This. It’s no different to the couple buying a cake in a shop simply for the fact of wanting a cake to eat. They can pay for it, you sell them. Transaction done, nothing else.I think some people feel as though making a cake for a paying customer’s wedding doesn’t mean you support the wedding… it just means you’re a cake making business and you make cakes for people who pay you to make cakes.
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Imryl
Guest
Replace making the cake with having to officiate the wedding and you’ll get your answer. You’re providing a service that will be used for the celebration of the immoral activity.
If you cannot refuse to provide one service (making a cake) based on the fact the couple is gay, then that applies to all services. You would have to rent out your space for their reception and if you could officiate weddings, then you shouldn’t be allowed to say no based on the fact that they’re gay.
If you cannot refuse to provide one service (making a cake) based on the fact the couple is gay, then that applies to all services. You would have to rent out your space for their reception and if you could officiate weddings, then you shouldn’t be allowed to say no based on the fact that they’re gay.
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ivebeenshown
Guest
I don’t like the tone of your post. You probably have a better chance of changing someone’s mind when you avoid using sarcasm.
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Birdpreacher
Guest
I dont support the unrepentant sin of anything. However I do support loving other people.
Sometimes not baking the cake is the right thing to do. I completely agree with the sentiment, “I cant be baking cakes for sinners because what they are doing is wrong and I dont want to send them the wrong message since I love them so much”
Sometimes, not baking the cake could also be done out of sin. “I wont bake those sinners a cake because they are dirty”. Well that isn’t quite expressing God’s love now is it, If anything it probably ends up reinforcing the Lesbians belief that the Church just full of critical pharisees. This is not how to evangelize
Notice what Jesus did with Levi: He went to Levi’s house that was built off of cheating innocent people out of their $$.
Imagine you live in the same town as Levi. Levi is always taking money away from you and your family when he cheats on your taxes. You live a righteous life and struggle to make ends meet for your family. Meanwhile Levi is spending money that could have been spent on your family’s food. Levi is buying a big house, servants, etc.
Then Jesus shows up and he goes to Levi’s house to party it up with other tax collectors! The food Jesus is eating, the wine he is drinking, and servants who are waiting on him were financed by Levi’s stealing! But for Levi’s sin, Jesus would not be partying.
Why would Christ do this? Jesus knows stealing is wrong yet he is enjoying Levi’s unjustly earned wealth. Why? Because altho you were harmed through the theft, Levi was harmed more by committing the theft. Jesus would have been just if he were to go up to Levi and scream at him to return his ill-gotten gains back to the people, but Levi didn’t need that. Levi needed someone to show him love by partying with him. (yes as Christians we are called to party). Levi was confused, sad, and sick. Levi needed to be loved before he could start living a just life, maybe the same could be said about people who have SSA.
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
We must not confuse the concept of judging people with not tolerating sin. Yes, we must love all of our neighbors, but take pause to think about what is love. If we love our children, do we let them do things that are dangerous to them without saying anything? The baker performed a great act of love, probably at the cost of being severely criticized, and possibly having an adverse effect on her own livelihood. To be silent on a matter which you know is wrong is to be LESS loving. When we admonish the sinner, we are giving them a chance to repent of their sin. Jesus didn’t just ignore sin. He taught the truth to sinners, just as the baker did in her own fashion. I agree most strongly that we should love all sinners, but part of that must include instruction, even if it isn’t easy. We must teach them that what they are doing is wrong-- either by word or example, depending on the situation. To be silent would be to allow the sinner to live in the sin, thus putting their soul at risk for eternal damnation. However, by correcting the sin we are “saving” the sinner. Is that not the most loving thing we can do for them?
Some scriptures that might prove useful in this matter:
James 5:19-20: My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.*
Gal 6:1: Brethren, and if a man be overtaken in any fault, you, who are spiritual, instruct such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted
2 Th 3:6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of [our] Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us
Some scriptures that might prove useful in this matter:
James 5:19-20: My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.*
Gal 6:1: Brethren, and if a man be overtaken in any fault, you, who are spiritual, instruct such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted
2 Th 3:6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of [our] Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us
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PatriceA
Guest
I’m agreeing with this, after reading all the posts. I don’t want to see businesses going down this path. I don’t think paying customers should be turned away from a business transaction, simply because I disapprove of their lifestyle.
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Faith1960
Guest
It wasn’t long ago that a story about a same sex-couple wanting to get married would’ve gotten recognition because it was two people of the same gender actually wanting to marry. Now the spotlight is on someone who actually had the audacity to refuse creating a wedding cake for two women. When did this all change?
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Faith1960
Guest
I sincerely doubt that they had much of a chance of ever embracing Catholicism.
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Faith1960
Guest
I think some of the problem is that being in a gay relationship isn’t just a matter of sinning like many other sins, where one does something, realizes it was wrong, is sorry and asks for forgivenss. Being in a gay relationship means that the couple have made a conscious choice to live a particular ongoing lifestyle, with no apologies.
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ivebeenshown
Guest
This is a terrible attitude to have. You don’t know for certain.
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Faith1960
Guest
Huh. That’s why I said that “I sincerely doubt.”
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Agreed. Besides, if this woman really didn’t want to make something like that, she could’ve at least just said she’s not good at making cakes for same-sex couples.I think some people feel as though making a cake for a paying customer’s wedding doesn’t mean you support the wedding… it just means you’re a cake making business and you make cakes for people who pay you to make cakes.
People, it’s nice to stand up for your convictions.
Doing so with a disgusting lack of tact however can make a stupidity out of that virtue any day.
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Debora123
Guest
Haha
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Warrior1979
Guest
I’m thinking of starting a new career. I’ll be a consultant to anyone or business that wishes to determine the moral character of the people they may potentially do business with. I’ll do background checks, spy on the them to make sure they go to Sunday Mass (I’ll charge extra if they want me to check on the Vigil Mass too!), set up false identities and engage them in online chat rooms to check out their moral turpitude, run black lights around their house, etc. If they fail, the business gets the Morality Determination Results letter with “Reject” stamped across it, and which point the cake-maker can say “No Cake For U!”
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