Balance in Sexual Morality (avoiding ridiculous extremes)

[eichenb2]

No need to return to it though. Consenting adults should not face criminal prosecution.

Agreed. IF that means it is in the privacy of thier own home. If they make movies out of it, then they should be arrested and charged with sodomy.

 

[Salonika]

Are you seriously equating slavery with laws forbidding an intrinsic moral evil (homosexual activity)??? Please tell me your joking.

Aren’t laws against slavery forbidding an intrinsic moral evil?

Think children sold into economic slavery would consider their situation intrinsically evil as would women sold into prostitution.

 

[mlchance]

Sex, whether heterosexual or homosexual, between consenting adults, is not harmful in and of itself.

Never?

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[eichenb2]

Pedophilia and rape hurt others. Sex, whether heterosexual or homosexual, between consenting adults, is not harmful in and of itself.

You may want to read the Bible and, oh yes, the catechism of the Catholic Church. Can one person kill another and eat him…within the privacy of their own home and, of course, with consent??? Would be anything less that murder? In summary, if you consult the Bible and Catechism, you will see that the CC teaches that homosexual activity is intrinsically evil even if between consenting adults.

 

[quasimodo]

Pope John Paul II tells us that conscience is an “interior dialog of man with himself” about right and wrong. It “is also a dialog of man with God”: it is “the witness of God himself” calling him to obey the moral law, and is a person’s “witness of his own faithfulness or unfaithfulness.” This is the basis of the great dignity of the conscience: it derives from its witness to objective moral truth. (Veritatis Splendor, 57-58, 60)

Conscience is the means God has given us to make moral decisions. Our freedom demands that we use it: “When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.” (Catechism, 1777)

I think this may be a better Catholic understanding of Conscience.

this is true only for a well formed conscience. To fail to form your conscience properly does not excuse you from the dictates of morality and natural law. Failure to form the conscience properly, whether through deliberation or sloth, is also sinful. Your culpability for not following the teachings of the church may be lessened, but it is no excuse to have allowed your contact with natural law to die do to the excesses of our culture and your own desires

Human sexuality ought to be seen as a precious gift from God, like a diamond, to be cherished and protected. Our culture has turned it into a 900 pound gorilla that we must carry on our back and feed or it will tear us apart. I choose the diamond. I am in control.

 

[eichenb2]

this is true only for a well formed conscience. To fail to form your conscience properly does not excuse you from the dictates of morality and natural law. Failure to form the conscience properly, whether through deliberation or sloth, is also sinful. Your culpability for not following the teachings of the church may be lessened, but it is no excuse to have allowed your contact with natural law to die do to the excesses of our culture and your own desires

Human sexuality ought to be seen as a precious gift from God, like a diamond, to be cherished and protected. Our culture has turned it into a 900 pound gorilla that we must carry on our back and feed or it will tear us apart. I choose the diamond. I am in control.

 

[Newbie2]

Sex, whether heterosexual or homosexual, between consenting adults, is not harmful in and of itself.

You seem to suggest that sexual acts occur in a vacuum; there are interpersonal, moral and societal dimentions to sex between consenting adults.

 

[manualman]

It is not INCOMPATIBLE with the view of most other Christians in the world.

It was for the FIRST 1900 years of christianity. And of course, in those 100 years or so since the protestants and then the eastern orthodox compromised the stance, the sexual health and wellbeing of christendom has improved SO much. Or has it???

 

[Randy_Carson]

It is not INCOMPATIBLE with the view of most other Christians in the world.

I’m curious…

Since all Protestant denominations taught that artificial birth control was sinful prior to the Anglican Lambeth Conference in 1930, does this mean that these “churches” were teaching error in a matter of faith and morals prior to that date or are they teaching error now that they have all permitted contraception?

 

[bilop]

Aren’t laws against slavery forbidding an intrinsic moral evil?

Think children sold into economic slavery would consider their situation intrinsically evil as would women sold into prostitution.

I don’t believe the Church has ever declared slavery an intrinsic moral evil. It depends on the nature of the slavery. Enslaving free people is wrong, and the Church opposed the Spanish/Portugese enslavement of the American Indians, for example. Hereditary chattle slavery is likely to be intrinsically wrong.

However, I don’t believe slavery for criminals or war captives would be considered intrinsically evil, as long as they were not abused. If you look at the history of that type of slavery, it was generally a choice of enslaving them or killing them (soldiers would not take captives unless they could sell them). Those slaves also had rights, and could often buy their freedom over time.

It is a interesting topic.

God Bless

 

[distracted]

I like the way YipYupYep put it.

I am on my way to a divorce, hoping for an annulment. I know that while the outcome looks positive, there is always the chance that it will not be granted, and God and the Church will ask me to be single and abstinent for the rest of my life.

Ouch.

But I do not see this as an unrealistic extreme. I see it as a cross to bear. I’ve been abstinent for quite a while already, and by God’s grace I will follow whichever path I am called to, for the rest of my life.

Jesus was abstinent all his life… 33 yrs…

and I’ve been abstinent 3 times that long… nigh on 100 yrs now…

(just seems like it… sometimes )

 

[nablaise]

It’s hard to understand why God would give us this extremely powerful drive inside of ourselves then expect us to deny it at all times unless your goal is to create a child. Equally rediculous is the common attitude often heard that says that whenever a man sees an attractive woman clothed or unclothed and has even the slightest sexual thought that he is somehow “guilty” of something.

I have come to realise that God did not give us this ‘extremely powerful drive inside ourselves’ anymore than he gave us anger or jealousy. This ‘powerful drive’ is not natural, it is a corruption of the original nature God gave us. When we consider that it is natural, then it is very easy to be confused and despair.

The nature God made is perfectly ordered. Looking at a beautiful woman should not cause us to go incontrolable but to worship God. It should rise in us a sentiment of reverance we usually feel when we look at those beautiful galaxy.

And if they evoque lust, it should be a feeling of pity or indignation. Lust <= idolatry.

It is a grave mistake to consider that this ‘extremely powerful drive’ is a gift of God. This how we end up believing that we are born this way or that way…Considering that the Church is not right, but the truth is somewhere between Church and X

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made. His eternal power also and divinity: so that they are inexcusable. 21 Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God or given thanks: but became vain in their thoughts. And their foolish heart was darkened. 22 For, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. 23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts and of creeping things.

24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. 27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. 28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient. 29 Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness: full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity: whisperers, 30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Foolish, dissolute: without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. 32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.

 

[distracted]

Bottom line - God is not a god of confusion and he would not give us our intellect and sex drive if we were not intended to use. them You can spin it anyway you want, but I am sure that some people in Guyana said something similar to what you just said…right before they took a big gulp of the kool-aid.

well, i’ve been celibate for many years and i know how hard it is to restrain certain desires all day every day… which come to one even when one isn’t thinking about remotely related matters (a particular attractive person or what have you)… It does feel un-natural to always say NO to those feelings… but i have been doing it for all these yrs and I am not dead - in fact i am very much alive in Christ… much closer to him than i would be if were sinning, esp mortal sin… Mortal sin separates from God… and we are separated enough as it is, just by being on Earth, surrounded by sin (sinners)…

You can’t have everything… Mabye in Heaven we will have “everything”, but not in this life… which is what a lot of non-Catholics seems to forget… They (and even Catholics) try to have their cake & eat it too.. have “heaven” in this life and hope to have it in the next… doesn’t work…

and even if i were not " into Jesus", i could (definitely DO) see the wisdom of not having sex under just any and all circumstances that people do so today… In other words, a lot of people have sex for just any reason these days… sometimes just becaue they feel like it… Heck, i feel like strangling certain people sometimes (or at least blasting them real good, verbally) but i don’t do it… (St. Mt 25:31)

Are you saying we should just give in to our sexual desires, even if we are not in the right relationship (marriage)?

exactly wht are you saying?