Balloon debate: who should jump?

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The “baloon debate” is a hypothetical moral problem: there’s a hot air baloon loaded with too many people – it will crash and kill all the passengers unless one person lightens the load by jumping to their death. The question is who should jump and why.

I was wondering, could a Catholic morally choose to leap to their death in such a situation? Would a Catholic have to jump in order to save the others (presuming they’re all non-Catholics)?
 
The choices are poor. “Must” and “Must Not”.

False dichotomy. It is a choice A person may choose to jump or choose not to jump. They are not required, it is matter of conscience.

Christ knew he was going to die on Holy Thursday. He could have fled, but did not.
 
I think they should wait until they’re near a tree or close to the ground, and THEN jump out.Or they should just bring a parachute.If I were going in a hot balloon, I would always bring a parachute, in case of such an emergency.
 
The “baloon debate” is a hypothetical moral problem: there’s a hot air baloon loaded with too many people – it will crash and kill all the passengers unless one person lightens the load by jumping to their death. The question is who should jump and why.

I was wondering, could a Catholic morally choose to leap to their death in such a situation? Would a Catholic have to jump in order to save the others (presuming they’re all non-Catholics)?
I think a Catholic could choose so, on the basis that there is no greater love one can show for another than to lay down his life.
 
It’s not the jump that kills you, it’s the splat at the end. It may seem a little close to Matthew 4:6 for some, but I’d argue that there’s little to no moral culpability in sacrificing yourself (assuming the angels don’t bear you up after all) to save others.

Yes, it’s a false dichotomy, but what good is the question if you can hem and haw all day long about it? It’s just an illustration for ‘is it evil to sacrifice yourself so that others may live?’. My answer is no.

And after all, it’s exactly what Jesus did, isn’t it?
 
Nobody should jump.

It’s the same as posing the question whether you should throw somebody out. The answer is no.

Actually, this happened to a relative of mine while on tour in Africa. They ran out of fuel and the operator couldn’t get a new tank hooked up in time. They came down on a mountain. People were injured but not killed. How is throwing out one person going to significantly alter the rate of descent?
 
I would say must not jump. You can’t commit suicide to save someone else.

Everyone takes their chances on the landing. You all got in together, you all go down together.

God Bless
 
No one jumps. Everyone grab a rope to the balloon, tie it on, cut the basket, then slowly let the air out of the balloon.

But if the biggest person wants to volunteer…???
 
St.Thomas Moore would say you are required to exhaust every possible alternative first. As you never know what may happen in a baloon until you actually hit the ground, I reckon everyone should stay calm and jump before they crash.
 
Hot air balloons…is that what they’re using now?

When I was a kid, it was lifeboats. This was a common trick back in the 1960’s and 70’s, used by secular teachers to introduce “situation ethics” into the minds of the children they were teaching.

Usually, it went something like this: “Eight people end up in a lifeboat, but there is only food and water for five; so which three must be sacrificed for the good of the others?”

The typical list of passengers included a young woman who was going to be married soon; a young man about twenty or so who was on his way home to his wife; a brilliant heart surgeon; an old woman aged eighty with a blood condition; an old man aged seventy-five with a terminal disease; a single mother with five children at home depending on her; a paraplegic who also needs dialysis on a regular basis, and yourself.

It was up to the kids to each figure out who should go overboard, based on “their personal values”. Typically, most kids weren’t going to throw themselves overboard; and as for the rest, they figured it was reasonable enough that since the girl and the boy were young, with their whole lives ahead of them, they should be saved; as should the mother, because she had people depending on her; and the heart surgeon should be saved, because after all, he rendered a valuable service in his profession. The other three were old and/or sick, with their lives behind them, so naturally, into the drink they should go.

There were variations on this theme, of course, but the bottom line was that it was supposed to be up to each person to figure this out, based on his or her “personal values”. This was directly opposed, of course, by both the teaching of the Church, which states that all persons are of equal value, and by the rather commonsense idea that you could also ration the food and water in the boat, and nobody would have to go overboard, because there’s no telling when you might be rescued—it might be a couple weeks, or it might be half an hour, who knows? However, most high school kids weren’t savvy enough to figure out that the scenario, as presented, was a stacked deck, so they went along with the premise.

I remember making a teacher extremely angry one afternoon during the course of this game. The premise was presented pretty much as above, and then he went around the room and each student had to explain who, in his or her opinion, should go overboard, and explain the reasons why. Most of the kids in the class followed the Standard Party Line ™, although there were two or three who varied, usually trying to come up with a moral reasoning for their choice. These were met by a smug rejoinder from the teacher, who would smirk and say “Well, if you’re taking that position for Reasons A, B, and C, what about Reasons X, Y, and Z?”, which would embarass, confuse, and fluster the kid, since, as I say, the kid usually wasn’t savvy enough to figure out that the whole thing was ridiculous, based on a stacked deck.

Then he came to me, and I immediately said, “The young woman, the young man and the heart surgeon go overboard to save the rest of us.”

This caused the teacher to raise his eyebrows and say, “Well, that’s an interesting choice, to say the least. Would you care to explain your reasoning?”

And I said, “Sure. You said we’re supposed to make these choices based on our personal values, correct?” He nodded, and I said, "Well, just for the purposes of the exercise, let’s just say that I happen to be a fervent, dedicated Nazi.

"Now, the old man with the terminal disease ran a boarding house in Vienna in the old days, and was very kind to the Fuhrer when he lived there, so he has to be saved. The old woman is a devout Party member and regularly makes donations to the Nazi cause, so she has to be saved. The mother with five kids will provide five soldiers for the Reich, so she has to be saved; and the paraplegic is also a multibillionaire who supports the Nazi Party financially, so he must be saved.

"As for the young woman, yeah, she’s pretty, but she also happens to be a Jew, and so is the heart surgeon. The young man is a half-breed Slav of mixed blood with Gypsies, so this makes all three of them sub-humans who will eventually be exterminated anyway, so simply tossing them overboard now will save the time and expense of gassing them later.

“As a fervent, dedicated Nazi, those are my choices, based on my personal values.”

There was a shocked silence by the rest of the class, and the teacher was absolutely livid, but whether it was because he thought I was just being a smart-aleck or whether he recognized that I was turning the tables and using the same stacked-deck stupidity of his own foolish little game against him, I don’t know.

I’m kind of surprised however that this nonsense is still going on out there, actually. Pretty sad.
 
I would say must not jump. You can’t commit suicide to save someone else.
Code:
 Father Kolbe silently stepped forward and stood before Commandant Fritsch.


 The commandant asked, "What does this Polish pig want?"


 Father Kolbe pointed to the polish sergeant, saying, "I am a Catholic priest from     Poland; I would like to take his place, because he has a wife and children."
That’s SAINT Kolbe.
 
Father Kolbe silently stepped forward and stood before Commandant Fritsch.
Code:
 The commandant asked, "What does this Polish pig want?"


 Father Kolbe pointed to the polish sergeant, saying, "I am a Catholic priest from     Poland; I would like to take his place, because he has a wife and children."
That’s SAINT Kolbe.
Important difference; St. Maximilian Kolbe did not kill himself, the Nazis killed him.

God Bless
 
Important difference; St. Maximilian Kolbe did not kill himself, the Nazis killed him.
Suicide by cop is still suicide. Not that I don’t greatly admire St Kolbe, but he willingly chose to die and knew full well his death would result from his actions.

In the same way, like I said, it’s not the jump itself that kills you.
 
If there are that many people in the balloon, how’d it ever get off the ground to begin with?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Suicide by cop is still suicide. Not that I don’t greatly admire St Kolbe, but he willingly chose to die and knew full well his death would result from his actions.

In the same way, like I said, it’s not the jump itself that kills you.
Well, I am no expert in Catholic moral theology, but there seems to be a significant difference here. Suicide by cop is pointing a gun at the police to get them to kill you. You are responsible for your own death. It is your will to kill yourself.

Similarly, the one who jumps off the boat to drown themself is ending their life by their own hand with the intention of killing themself.

Kolbe gave his life for another. He did not want to die. He was murdered. He knew his life would end, but he did not will it or end it by his own hand.
 
Kolbe gave his life for another. He did not want to die. He was murdered. He knew his life would end, but he did not will it or end it by his own hand.
Half right. Kolbe didn’t end his life by his own hand, but he most certainly willed to end his life when he volunteered to die for another. Or, to put a spin on it, Kolbe willed to save another, and he accomplished this by volunteering to die. This is precisely what martyrs do, after all; they will to die for a greater good.

Choosing to risk death by jumping out of the balloon in order preserve the lives of the others in the balloon would not be morally impermissible.

Now tossing someone else out of the balloon? That’d be dead wrong. 😉

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Important difference; St. Maximilian Kolbe did not kill himself, the Nazis killed him.

God Bless
and in this scenario, the guy doesn’t kill himself. the sudden stop at the end of the fall does.
 
Half right. Kolbe didn’t end his life by his own hand, but he most certainly willed to end his life when he volunteered to die for another. Or, to put a spin on it, Kolbe willed to save another, and he accomplished this by volunteering to die. This is precisely what martyrs do, after all; they will to die for a greater good.

Choosing to risk death by jumping out of the balloon in order preserve the lives of the others in the balloon would not be morally impermissible.

Now tossing someone else out of the balloon? That’d be dead wrong. 😉

– Mark L. Chance.
It seems we are talking of Positive and Indirect Suicide.

The person who thinks by jumping out a ballon they will save others may be acting out of virtue if sufficient reason exists. I do not know how one could be certain others would be saved by jumping.

As for St. Kolbe obviously he knew he was going to his death. My point is he did not commit suicide.
 
The “baloon debate” is a hypothetical moral problem: there’s a hot air baloon loaded with too many people – it will crash and kill all the passengers unless one person lightens the load by jumping to their death. The question is who should jump and why.

I was wondering, could a Catholic morally choose to leap to their death in such a situation? Would a Catholic have to jump in order to save the others (presuming they’re all non-Catholics)?
more importantly, if it was overloaded with people, how did it manage to take off? hmmmmm?
 
It seems we are talking of Positive and Indirect Suicide.

The person who thinks by jumping out a ballon they will save others may be acting out of virtue if sufficient reason exists. I do not know how one could be certain others would be saved by jumping.

As for St. Kolbe obviously he knew he was going to his death. My point is he did not commit suicide.
I agree, there is an important difference between giving up your life (i.e. putting yourself in a position where you will almost certainly be killed) and committing the act yourself.

God Bless
 
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