Baltimore Catechism vs. CCC?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Quackers
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
davidcoit said:
Apostolic Constitution *Fidei Depositum *of October 11, 1992

Catechism of the Catholic Church pg.XIV,

“Drawn up by the special Commission of Cardinals and Bishops established by an Interdicasterial established in 1986, the Catechism was approved and promulgated by me (Pope JPII) in the aforementioned Apostolic Constitution, which today retains all its validity and timelessness, and finds its definitive achievement in this Latin typical edition.
This editon was prepaired by an Interdicasterial Commission which I (Pope John Paul II) appointed for this purpose in 1993. Presided over by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger this commission worked diligently to fulfill the mandate it received”.
Click to expand...
I didn’t realize an Apostolic Constitution promulgated 27 years after the end of Vatican II was apart of the Council.
 
SemperFidelis said:
Clearly you didn’t read the Fourth Baltimore Catechism. There are four, and the larger the number the more in-depth of an answer it provides to the questions. If you read number one, then yes the above would apply. Number four however, gives way more in-depth answers, so if you haven’t read that one, you haven’t gotten the whole thing.
Click to expand...
The Baltimore Catechism was / is aimed at the laity … lay people of all ages, all educational levels, and of all “school years”. The first volumes are aimed at elementary school. It was prepared in response to what was correctly perceived as a gap in knowledge by the laity.

The CCC is written extensively and is more suitable for clergy and diocesan staff to prepare local papers and discussion pieces … as well as for serious students who have the time and education to go over the discussions contained therein seriously.

Most people with jobs, kids, family, bill juggling, and all the rest arguably don’t have the time or energy to refer to the CCC on a regular basis.

The Baltimore Catechism is designed for kids and people with kids, etc. … although the Baltimore Catechism may or may not need some updating to bring it into conformance with the seemingly never-ending changes to daily practices … e.g., fast & abstinence, holy days of obligation, etc, etc.

The Baltimore Catechism explains the core nuts and bolts … Transubstantiation … sainthood … sacraments versus sacramentals … the parts of the Mass. It explains things in language that people can easily remember for decades and understand clearly … and repeat back decades later. The Baltimore Catechism is a workable and usable document for the working person.

The Baltimore Catechism may not be perfect, but it provides some sustenance and some substance for people who have lives with many parts and with the push-pull demands that pure scholars don’t have to worry about.

The Baltimore Catechism is better than the nothing that we have had to live with for the past two generations of Catholics.

CERTAINLY, the Baltimore Catechism is better than coloring pages with crayons and making banners.
 
Al_Masetti said:
The Baltimore Catechism was / is aimed at the laity … lay people of all ages, all educational levels, and of all “school years”.
Click to expand...
Depends on which Baltimore Catechism you’re talking about. The first one is aimed at children grades 5 and under, the second one 6-9, the third one 10-12, and the fourth one is aimed at “Sunday-School Teachers and Advanced Classes.”
 
Sorry y’all, I knew I’d seen a reference to “authorization” to create a “new” catechism somewhere. I wasn’t entirely correct about it though.

My copy of the CCC has the Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum, which was issued by Pope John Paul II on 11 October, 1992. In paragraphs 6-8 or 9, the Pope refers to the Synod of Bishops that he, JP II, had convoked on the 20th anniversary of the close of Vatican II. THAT synod had requested a catechism or compenium of same to present Catholic doctrine for Christians (Final Report of the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops, 7 Dec 1985, vol 9, II, B, a, n 4: p 1758, n 1797).

Vatican II does hint at mankind’s greater understanding of the world (Gaudium et Spes, approx PP 10-20), but it’s generally referring more to man’s imbalance of practical/scientific knowledge relative to his spiritual/theological understanding.

There may be other references in the documents somewhere, but I’ve not yet had time to read them all, so I think I’d best leave it at that.

I see what people mean about the Baltimore Catechism being…unavailable…though. I’ll have to check Creighton’s bookstore and see if they have one.

I sit corrected.

John
 
Pope John Paul II chose the CCC publication date to mark the 30th anniversary of Vatican II.
The “speak and echo” method of catechesis before the invention of the printing press became the question/answer approach in print. This is the method used in the Baltimore Cathechism.
The Roman Catechism (1566) was completed by Pope Puis V and was the source book for catechisms until 1978.
The Baltimore Catechism (1884) gave unity to the teaching of the faith for immigrant Catholics.
Significant growth in issues and insights since 1566 led to the development of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. "Its content is faithful to Apostolic Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium. It incorporates the heritage of the Doctors, Fathers, and saints of the Church. At the same time it illuminates, with the light of faith, contemporary situations, problems, and questions.
The goal of the CCC is to facilitate lifelong conversion.
Source: United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, approved by the full body of bishops (2004) with subsequent recognito by the Holy See.
 
SemperFidelis said:
Clearly you didn’t read the Fourth Baltimore Catechism. There are four, and the larger the number the more in-depth of an answer it provides to the questions. If you read number one, then yes the above would apply. Number four however, gives way more in-depth answers, so if you haven’t read that one, you haven’t gotten the whole thing.
Click to expand...
I just bought a copy of number 3. I wasn’t aware of the significance of the different numbers.
 
NMJenny said:
I’m not familiar with the versions of the BC on those two sites, but the St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism, which has been updated with references to Scripture and the CCC is available through Seton Home Study, a very orthodox Catholic homeschool. Check out setonbooks.com/search.php?PHPSESSID=2280b17e2a858eeeb2e8a45fbf7b3d01&subject=Religion&grade=&userSearchString=&x=8&y=15
Click to expand...
Ah, yes I forgot about that one. It’s a good one too. Thanks! I also forgot about the New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechisms (they only sell #1 and #2):

allcatholicbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ACB&Product_Code=AT1&Category_Code=

allcatholicbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ACB&Product_Code=AT2&Category_Code=

Or you can purchase both of them as a set along with The New Saint Joseph First Communion Catechism:

allcatholicbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ACB&Product_Code=AT10x22&Category_Code=
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the old Baltimore Catechism. You ought to study with it on your own in your spare time. 😃
 
The CCC can be hard to understand and somewhat confusing for simple minds like mine. Also, the CCC also seems to “soft peddle” difficult topics like Mortal Sin, Purgatory, and Hell.

I like how the older Catechisms get right to the point. They have excellent pictures souls of the damned suffering in the eternal flames of Hell.

Images like that along with church teachings being given in a very concise manner help to clear up a lot of confusion.👍
 
I love the Baltimore Catechism and use it to teach my own kids. Concrete and solid, nuts and bolts of the Faith. If only the parishes would go back to using it now, our children would have a much better understanding of our Catholic Faith. The CCC is great to, but not for kids–even High School kids are far better off with BC3 in my opinion.

I consider the CCC better for students who are ready for more philosophical and
abstract thinking.

I think there are only a couple of slight differences in Church teachings since VII that need to be addressed. One has to do with divorce, (BC2, p.35). It’s no longer forbidden–in some instances. Of course remarriage after divorce is still forbidden. Can’t remember any other changes off hand–anyone?
 
Hello Fellow Posters,

I am new to this posting thing but testing the waters.

I am new to my Diocese and puzzled by the embracing of the Baltimore Catechism (BC) and even pushing it over the Catholic Church Catechism (CCC).

My understanding was that the BC was really a North America effort from the later 19th century. Catechism updated in the later 20th century as the Catholic Church Catechism (CCC) for the Universal Church, prior to that the catechism was from the 15th or 16t century.

I can understand using the BC as some part of an academic archeological dig but to push it onto young minds as the current Catechism of the Catholic Church? Did I miss something?

What did I miss in my Catholic Church Doctoring?

Peace and love,

3towheads
 
3towheads said:
Hello Fellow Posters,

I am new to this posting thing but testing the waters.

I am new to my Diocese and puzzled by the embracing of the Baltimore Catechism (BC) and even pushing it over the Catholic Church Catechism (CCC).

My understanding was that the BC was really a North America effort from the later 19th century. Catechism updated in the later 20th century as the Catholic Church Catechism (CCC) for the Universal Church, prior to that the catechism was from the 15th or 16t century.

I can understand using the BC as some part of an academic archeological dig but to push it onto young minds as the current Catechism of the Catholic Church? Did I miss something?

What did I miss in my Catholic Church Doctoring?

Peace and love,

3towheads
Click to expand...
At which level do they push the BC over the CCC? The CCC could be a bit more difficult of a reading for a lot of people that look just for the basics.
 
opps, I meant Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. I was being sloppy.
 
Cristiano said:
At which level do they push the BC over the CCC? The CCC could be a bit more difficult of a reading for a lot of people that look just for the basics.
Click to expand...
I remember being taught from that catechism when I went to school. The Q & A model was very frustrating to a kid who needed explanations and wanted to know more. I quickly learnt, in grade 4, to not bother asking questions because the teacher could never answer them. She had studied her catechism the same way years before and could spew the answers just like my mom could but they couldn’t explain anything. Wish we’d had this CCC back in 1960 when I would have devoured it with gusto.
 
BC was written back in the late 19th century, literacy or illiteracy rate was about 20% then. Catholic profile in America may have been more immigrates than it is today. But only making an educated guess. These two things may have influenced the culture and the need to the BC.
 
Cristiano said:
At which level do they push the BC over the CCC? The CCC could be a bit more difficult of a reading for a lot of people that look just for the basics.
Click to expand...
They issued the book “The Baltimore Catechism” to my son as one of his texts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top