Baltimore Catechism vs. CCC?

[Corki]

Hello Fellow Posters,

I am new to this posting thing but testing the waters.

I am new to my Diocese and puzzled by the embracing of the Baltimore Catechism (BC) and even pushing it over the Catholic Church Catechism (CCC).

My understanding was that the BC was really a North America effort from the later 19th century. Catechism updated in the later 20th century as the Catholic Church Catechism (CCC) for the Universal Church, prior to that the catechism was from the 15th or 16t century.

I can understand using the BC as some part of an academic archeological dig but to push it onto young minds as the current Catechism of the Catholic Church? Did I miss something?

What did I miss in my Catholic Church Doctoring?

Peace and love,

3towheads

The problem is that we still have a void of material. The BC was a local catechism to use primarily in the US. You see the different levels (0,1,2,3 and 4) which go subsequently deeper into the material. Great for school use.

The CCC came out in English in the 80s. The forward reads that it is for the Bishops to use (but not JUST for the Bishops) and they are directed to develop local Catechisms for teaching and catechesis. Ok, that was 20 years ago. We just a few years ago got the USCCB Adult Catechism and have no local catechism formatted for children or teens. The closest thing is the Faith and Life textbooks which follow the pattern of the CCC but use the Q&A structure for summary.

So, the BC is still very appealing to use for Children and new Catholics. The CCC then serves as the reference book. I love the CCC with all of its footnotes refering back to the ECFs and the Bible. But I don’t use it in class (9th graders) except to teach the students how to look things up.

There is no doctrinal difference between the two (BC and CCC), just a different way of presenting the material. The BC, especially the St. Joseph versions also contains teaching on disciplines and some of that has changed. For example, the fast before communion. I have used the BC (0) to teach a First Communion class of CCE. We just deal with the discipline updates in class and it still works fine.

 

[Corki]

They issued the book “The Baltimore Catechism” to my son as one of his texts.

Which grade? We do the same for second grade and for anyone taking First Communion class. It is the level 0.

 

[3towheads]

Which grade? We do the same for second grade and for anyone taking First Communion class. It is the level 0.

5th grade.

 

[3towheads]

The problem is that we still have a void of material. The BC was a local catechism to use primarily in the US. You see the different levels (0,1,2,3 and 4) which go subsequently deeper into the material. Great for school use.

The CCC came out in English in the 80s. The forward reads that it is for the Bishops to use (but not JUST for the Bishops) and they are directed to develop local Catechisms for teaching and catechesis. Ok, that was 20 years ago. We just a few years ago got the USCCB Adult Catechism and have no local catechism formatted for children or teens. The closest thing is the Faith and Life textbooks which follow the pattern of the CCC but use the Q&A structure for summary.

So, the BC is still very appealing to use for Children and new Catholics. The CCC then serves as the reference book. I love the CCC with all of its footnotes refering back to the ECFs and the Bible. But I don’t use it in class (9th graders) except to teach the students how to look things up.

There is no doctrinal difference between the two (BC and CCC), just a different way of presenting the material. The BC, especially the St. Joseph versions also contains teaching on disciplines and some of that has changed. For example, the fast before communion. I have used the BC (0) to teach a First Communion class of CCE. We just deal with the discipline updates in class and it still works fine.

I looked over the BC last night and it seems entirely different from the CCC. I continued to be puzzled by the effort to support the BC or even to introduce it. I have always been so proud of the Roman Catholic Church in its unverisal mission and perspective. Why the need for United States to have its own catechism? Seems that we all should be studying the same material in conformity with the Vatican and thereby our current CCC. How can we be unified as one church if we all are going out using our own catechisms. Why bother pushing the issue that it is or is not doctrinally the same as the CCC? If it were why would the Vatican go through such effort to create a new CCC in the early 1990’s or sanction it as the official catechism in the 90’s if the BC was good enough. I have to as a reasonable prudent person and one that is faithful to our Church look to the official catechism that came out of the Vatican. Afterall, we are no trying to establish our own denomination here in the U.S. We are all Roman Catholics, let us use one catechism. Why is it an issue here in the U.S., what are people trying to hang on to?

 

[Nickkname]

There is something that has been on my mind recently.

I’m currently enrolled in catechism classes in a Tridentine parish, and I’m enjoying it immensely. I’m learning a lot, and the priests and parishioners are wonderful. However, the priest who teaches the class told us something about three weeks ago that has caused me to start thinking. In class, he told us that our catechism book is based on the Baltimore Catechism. He then explained that the Baltimore Catechism is an older Catechism that predates the CCC. He told the class that all parishes in the diocese are supposed to be using the CCC, but this parish rejected it in favor of the Baltimore Catechism because he and his fellow priest thought that the CCC was too vague and confusing. He said that many of the problems in the Church today stem from people misinterpreting the CCC due to the confusing manner in which it is written. He also said that the Compendium isn’t much better. He told us that the bishop summoned him last year because he had found out that this parish was using the Baltimore Catechism and wanted to know why. When my priest explained his reasons for using the BC, the bishop told him to stop using it and start using the CCC instead. My priest told us that they’ve continued to use the BC, unknown to the bishop. He told us that if the bishop were to find out that they still weren’t using the CCC, he would be furious.

The reason I’ve related this is because I’m wondering: is this ok? Is it ok that the priests at my parish are not obeying the bishop’s instruction to stop using the Baltimore Catechism and start using the CCC? My priest said that they don’t like the CCC at this parish, and they didn’t even have a copy in the parish library. Should I be concerned about this, or am I worried about nothing? I just want to make sure that my instruction is being carried out the way the Church wants it to be.

By the way, this is a Roman Catholic parish that is in full communion with the Magisterium.

Thanks to anyone who has any insights about this.

Write to the Bishop immediately. He needs to know the Parish is being disobedient. Include evidence in your letter or e-mail, too, because without evidence you can’t really say there is a problem.

If this dosen’t work, than find anothe parish.

 

[Corki]

I looked over the BC last night and it seems entirely different from the CCC. I continued to be puzzled by the effort to support the BC or even to introduce it. I have always been so proud of the Roman Catholic Church in its unverisal mission and perspective. Why the need for United States to have its own catechism? Seems that we all should be studying the same material in conformity with the Vatican and thereby our current CCC. How can we be unified as one church if we all are going out using our own catechisms. Why bother pushing the issue that it is or is not doctrinally the same as the CCC? If it were why would the Vatican go through such effort to create a new CCC in the early 1990’s or sanction it as the official catechism in the 90’s if the BC was good enough. I have to as a reasonable prudent person and one that is faithful to our Church look to the official catechism that came out of the Vatican. Afterall, we are no trying to establish our own denomination here in the U.S. We are all Roman Catholics, let us use one catechism. Why is it an issue here in the U.S., what are people trying to hang on to?

Maybe you could point out some of the things that were different. I have been using both for some time and see mostly style differences.

As to why to do a local catechism… because the Pope told the Bishops to do so is good enough for me.

If your fifth grader can use the CCC, as is, as a useful learning tool, God Bless him. My 8th grader can look up things for reference but would be hard pressed to follow a study plan using just the CCC. It isn’t even laid out as a teaching document, rather as a reference text.