Baltimore catechism vs current catechism

[zaida]

Hi everyone - I was reading the baltimore catechism and noticed that they defined as Hell as eternal torment, fire and what not…but the current catechism defines Hell as eternal separation from God…did the Church change its belief in this?

Thanks

 

[PacoG]

I would think that separation from God is eternal torment. As St. Augustine said: “My soul is restless until it rests in Thee." The natural inclination of every soul is to be in the presence of God. Eternal separation is the worst punishment for our souls. It is hellfire and torment.

The two catechisms are not irreconcilable.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

The two catechisms are not irreconcilable.

They are also two different “animals”, so to speak. The Baltimore Catechism was intended to instruct the faithful, whereas the CCC was intended first and foremost to guide bishops and clergy (not to say that it was closed to the laity and faithful).

And like most works, they are a product of their times as well. The Baltimore Catechism was first published in 1885.

Out of curiosity, are you reading the last published edition of the Baltimore Catechism (c. 1933, I believe), or the more recent edition entitled the New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism?

 

[couponfit]

Hi everyone - I was reading the baltimore catechism and noticed that they defined as Hell as eternal torment, fire and what not…but the current catechism defines Hell as eternal separation from God…did the Church change its belief in this?

Thanks

no change. baltimore was for youth and descriptive visually. ccc is used to create catechism books and is for church teachers. separation from god is hell. fire is a visual.

 

[St_Francis]

The pain experienced in Hell is a spiritual pain which has always been described as burning because that is incredibly painful. Approved visions have included the fires of Hell (Fatima and others), and saints have reported burn marks on things touched by evil demons.

 

[LittleHannah]

I have the St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism. Being separated from God is eternal torment. To know that you will never be with God for all eternity is the worst torment anyone would have to God through. The Souls in Hell have to suffer that because of their own bad choices in this life.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

No, the Church still teaches that Hell is eternal separation from God, but the eternal fire and sufferings of Hell are real as well. The fire is not like that which we know on earth, as earthly fire consumes what it burns. The fire in Hell does not. Also all the senses are tormented as well. My priest recently gave a good sermon on Hell. You don’t hear it mentioned much anymore from the pulpit. Heck, in grade 12 we were taught that Hell didn’t actually exist and that it was just a state of mind of the torment of being separated from God in the “outer darkness”. (Sounds a little too Mormon for me.)

 

[LovedMyAlydar]

I have a Benziger Brothers Baltimore Catechism from 1949 #3 that I use in my homeschooling for my high school sons. This is what it says about hell:

#185: Those are punished in hell who die in mortal sin; they are deprived of the vision of God and suffer dreadful torments, especially that of fire, for all eternity.

(a) The souls in hell are beyond all help. They do not belong to the Mystical Body of Christ or to the Communion of Saints. They are not included among our neighbors and are not the objects of charity. They are doomed to the company of the devils for all eternity.

(b) The souls in hell do not have supernatural faith. They believe, however, in the truths revealed by Almighty God, not with divine faith, but because they cannot escape the evidence of God’s authority.

(c) The privation of the beatific vision is called the pain of loss; the torment inflicted by created means on the soul, and on the body after its resurrection, is called the pain of sense.

(d) It is not against God’s mercy to punish souls in hell for eternity. God’s justice demands that He thus punish those who, sinning gravely and refusing to repent, deliberately turn themselves from God, their last end.

(e) The punishment of hell is eternal; our Lord referred to is as “everlasting fire.”

 

[Mike30]

Hi everyone - I was reading the baltimore catechism and noticed that they defined as Hell as eternal torment, fire and what not…but the current catechism defines Hell as eternal separation from God…did the Church change its belief in this?

Thanks

I think you have to understand that the Baltimore Catechism was designed and written primarily for students from elementary school to high school. It was written in a very simple question and answer format that didn’t go into a great more detail necessary to get the information across.

The Catechism now is quite frankly a monster. Not saying it is bad or anthing like that, just real hard to decipher and understand. It seems to have been written more for scholars or theologians than the average person on the street… It is very dense, very well researched and actually for the average person offers way too much information to be easily understandable.

The Compendium of the catholic Church or the Baltimore Catechism are, I think much better than the current Catechism for the average person on the street.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

The Catechism now is quite frankly a monster. Not saying it is bad or anthing like that, just real hard to decipher and understand. It seems to have been written more for scholars or theologians than the average person on the street.

In fact, it was written for bishops and clergy first and foremost.

 

[Alfonsus]

Besides if you like the brevity of Baltimore Catechism, why don’t you take a look at the Compedium of the Catechism insted?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Besides if you like the brevity of Baltimore Catechism, why don’t you take a look at the Compedium of the Catechism insted?

A very good suggestion - I would “second” that recommendation.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I was formed under the Baltimore Catechism in the forties and am now slogging my way through the CCC. There was little doubt to the intent and meaning of what was in the Baltimore Catechism, it was truly written to teach the laity but this latest CCC is difficult if not impossible in some paragraphs to comprehend. It does require a lot of thought, that’s a good thing but it takes so long to digest that the meaning often gets lost in the analysis. The constant interjection of quotes are more distraction than benefit. In my opinion the CCC is a one-hundred word answer to a true/false question. If we are truly in a crisis of a poorly educated laity the CCC is not the solution to resolve it.

 

[Cristiano]

Human beings have a physical part, the body, and a spiritual part, the soul. At the Final or General Judgment the living will have both body and soul and the dead will be resuscitated thus their body and soul will be together again. After the Judgment the people going to Heaven will share in God’s divinity and their body will become glorified. However, the rest will still have body and soul and so they will suffer both physically and spiritually.
A person that does not have a good grasp of the spiritual world and theology will be mainly concerned with physical pain because he cannot understand what spiritual pain is. On the other side a person with a good understanding of what spiritual suffering is will realize how bad things could be.
The bottom line is that in the past, because of the intellectual/educational level of the faithful, it was easier to stress the physical aspect of hell, now that the general intellectual/cultural level is up quite a bit it is quite proper to stress also the other aspect.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Besides if you like the brevity of Baltimore Catechism, why don’t you take a look at the Compedium of the Catechism instead?

Bob Aliano - IMO Alfonsus offers sound advice, echoed by clergy members on other threads. Take a look at the Compendium, which was intended for laity.

The CCC was actually written first and foremost for bishops and clergy. In that respect, it is a guide for those who already have some “context”.