ban on complaints about Mass

[robwar]

I am not sure if this should be here or not but it seems like there should be a ban on threads
that are rants about what did or didn’t happen at a particular Mass. They seem to start out as “worst Mass ever” etc. First of all, no one can judge what happen because basically none of us were there. Secondly, it pits people against each other and their opinions about Mass. Third, a number of them stem from the poster’s own ignorance of authorized readings and cycles, colors etc. Fourthly, complaints about what did or didn’t happen at a Mass need to be addressed to that particular priest or music director (many are complaints and opinions about the music than anything else). Finally, none of these types of threads ask productive questions like how to successfully approach a priest or music director with concerns and issues with the Mass and liturgy or what material can be used to support one’s thoughts when approaching with concerns. Rant threads are frankly embarrassing to see and read. They actually are belittling of the Mass for non-Catholics reading these threads and make Catholics looks like a bunch of nick-picky unhappy people and doesn’t present the Mass as a real encounter with the risen Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

I’m all for the day when those topics were not relevant.

 

[mfrances]

I am not sure if this should be here or not but it seems like there should be a ban on threads
that are rants about what did or didn’t happen at a particular Mass. They seem to start out as “worst Mass ever” etc. First of all, no one can judge what happen because basically none of us were there. Secondly, it pits people against each other and their opinions about Mass. Third, a number of them stem from the poster’s own ignorance of authorized readings and cycles, colors etc. Fourthly, complaints about what did or didn’t happen at a Mass need to be addressed to that particular priest or music director (many are complaints and opinions about the music than anything else). Finally, none of these types of threads ask productive questions like how to successfully approach a priest or music director with concerns and issues with the Mass and liturgy or what material can be used to support one’s thoughts when approaching with concerns. Rant threads are frankly embarrassing to see and read. They actually are belittling of the Mass for non-Catholics reading these threads and make Catholics looks like a bunch of nick-picky unhappy people and doesn’t present the Mass as a real encounter with the risen Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith.

I totally agree with you. I don’t even click on these threads anyore. It does make us look bad.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

I’d like to add something here…speaking for myself only of course. Hopefully some others would agree. I think those threads serve an important purpose.

I’ve started a few of those threads, and follow almost all of them…and I’d like to share with you the ‘why’.

Since rediscovering my faith some years ago, the frippery that goes on really jumped out at me. So much is different and I want to know why. I want to know I’m not alone. I want to believe that the human element of the mass which is so much a part of all these complaints is really not what holy mother Church intends.

The threads regarding (name the annoyance here) help me sort it all out. They help me get it off my chest, because there is nowhere else to go with it! We’d be complaining to the very people that allow all of it.

The threads help me realize when I’m right and when I’m wrong, but most importantly…they help me re-focus on what is really important instead of minutiae. They help me move on spiritually from (insert latest annoyance here) to a place where I can concentrate on humility acceptance and the hope of salvation.

They also help me realize that as bad as I think it is here…it could be much worse.

Hopefully, some of my brothers and sisters pray for me and others of my ilk in the process.

 

[japhy]

I would prefer to see people frame those posts as asking questions about Mass, rather than complaining about the Mass.

Actually, I’d rather the people first asked their priests the questions. It is very unhelpful to come to this forum to ask questions that can really only be accurately answered by the person responsible for the actions that the poster is asking about! Most of the answers given here would just be speculation, and would tend towards charges against the priest’s character.

But I cannot force other people to conduct themselves in this way; I can only ask it of them and lead by example.

 

[R_C]

doesn’t present the Mass as a real encounter with the risen Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith.

Unfortunately, for the people posting those threads Mass was diminishes in its glory because of human errors. And if the error is on their side, the greater fault is still with those who do not provide proper ongoing instruction on the liturgy for the benefit of the faithful.

That being said, I am neutral on the topic. I think a specific ban is unnecessary because threads such as those are probably already under the eye of the moderators because they don’t seem to lead to a constructive debate, but I am not against it if the forum considers it proper.

I do find these threads a great occasion to (a) clarify doubts on what is truly licit and what isn’t and (b) promote greater unity and understanding between those who are more attached to the traditional liturgy and those who only know or particularly love the new order of the Roman Rite.

 

[Polycarp1]

I tend to agree, posts should be vetted based on their intent. Is topic posted for the ultimate purpose of genuine searching for truth or for the up building of the Church? Or is its intent to mock, to drive people away from truth, or to engage people in irrelevant gossipy conversations?.

 

[johnnykins]

I am not sure if this should be here or not but it seems like there should be a ban on threads
that are rants about what did or didn’t happen at a particular Mass. They seem to start out as “worst Mass ever” etc.

I guess I have to disagree. The internet and places like this site have been invaluable for most people to discover that the things done so often at Mass were not only personally distasteful to them, but actually contrary to Church law - or worse. If priests simply did the red and said the black - and Bishops actually protected the liturgy - we would never have seen so many such threads. The problem Horatio is not in the stars (or the complaints!)

First of all, no one can judge what happen because basically none of us were there.

Actually, we can judge what has been described. Maybe the description is wrong…OK. But, if it’s right, there is much to be gained by the faithful in finding out what, if anything, is wrong.

Secondly, it pits people against each other and their opinions about Mass.

That’s the good part - opinion is not at issue, Church law and the faith is. It puts those who would disregard Church law and introduce illicit and invalid acts on the defensive. It pits the wrongdoer against the law.

and Third, a number of them stem from the poster’s own ignorance of authorized readings and cycles, colors etc.

True- and allows for proper catechesis - something that often doesn’t exist at the parish level (at least none worth a flip).

Fourthly, complaints about what did or didn’t happen at a Mass need to be addressed to that particular priest or music director (many are complaints and opinions about the music than anything else).

True, but they can certainly be vetted here and perhaps others will be suitably educated and empowered.

Finally, none of these types of threads ask productive questions like how to successfully approach a priest or music director with concerns and issues with the Mass and liturgy or what material can be used to support one’s thoughts when approaching with concerns.

Nonsense. Many of them do exactly that.

Rant threads are frankly embarrassing to see and read. They actually are belittling of the Mass for non-Catholics reading these threads and make Catholics looks like a bunch of nick-picky unhappy people and doesn’t present the Mass as a real encounter with the risen Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith.

Do the red and say the black and none of this would have ever arisen in the first place. The Church should be embarrassed by these actions and the need for them to be addressed in open fora. Unfortunately, it’s places like this that have allowed much of the reform of the reform to get traction. Your complaint is really with priests and Bishops who have not catechized the faithful; who don’t say the black and do the red; and who disregard Church Law. They are the ones at fault. Not those who call them on it. And, not those who, never having been catechized and yet are aware that much has been done to flout the Law, who occasionally get it wrong.

 

[Nigel7]

If someone has a concern about possible abuses at a mass which they’ve attended then they should be free to ask others here if their concerns are indeed valid or not.

As already mentioned, the person posting the thread should frame their concern respectfully.

 

[Scottgun]

If you can’t handle critical posts, be they of the very real problem of widespread liturgical abuse, or virtually anything else, don’t read them. Otherwise, this is an elaborate way of telling people to shut up.

 

[TimothyH]

I saw the title of the thread and thought that robwar had been promoted to moderator.

Maybe I should start a “Ban on Latin Mass Threads” thread, just for fun.

-Tim-

 

[mountee]

You have my complete agreement about how we can look nitpicking and unhappy in our faith with what we post here but it includes many subjects and how we post. This past week I watched some of the most uncharitable posts go on here between people who called themselves Catholic and I was astonished at how cruel some of it was. We have to remember, whether we are posting about a Mass or a priest or a disagreement of any kind, that all sorts of people are on this forum and lurking on it, their impression of Catholics could be completely distorted or completely affirmed by the way we treat each other and what we post. Even though it is the Internet there is another human being on the other end, we should treat them as kindly, respectfully and charitably as possible.

 

[svid2]

Following this thread.

 

[PatriceA]

As much as I am tired of the threads the OP wants to ban, I am against banning such threads and topics. People should feel free to come here and talk about any subject they find troubling in the Catholic faith, whether any of us agree with them or not. You don’t like the subject of the thread, don’t continue to read it or better yet, don’t even click on the heading. Nobody is forcing you to read each and every thread. Find the ones YOU like and discuss, leave the ones you don’t like to those that do.

 

[Sheadad]

I am glad that these threads the OP spoke of are not banned. Just having an opportunity to see what people typically complain about helps me to appreciate my own parish that much more. Not that we have everything go properly all the time, but it seems fairly good.

I really appreciate the fact that we can go back and forth on these forums with people from all over the English speaking world. I think we get interesting perspectives and are exposed to a whole host of facinating situations. Look how our world has opened up through this kind of technology. Banning has its appropriate uses, but to me, this doesn’t seem like one of them.

 

[mfrances]

If someone has a concern about possible abuses at a mass which they’ve attended then they should be free to ask others here if their concerns are indeed valid or not.

As already mentioned, the person posting the thread should frame their concern respectfully.

Respectfully being the key word there.

And a lot of people post complaints about things that are allowed, and they know it is allowed, but posted just to complain because it is not within their personal preference (such as music, guitars, felt banners)

 

[Scottgun]

Respectfully being the key word there.

And a lot of people post complaints about things that are allowed, and they know it is allowed, but posted just to complain because it is not within their personal preference (such as music, guitars, felt banners)

Let’s be clear here. If someone complained about felt banners and complained they were liturgical abuse, I’d join in in correcting him. If it was just complaining about them as being a bad idea and in poor taste (but still licit), then it is fair game.

 

[CB_Catholic]

There is nothing wrong with asking if something is permitted or not, or a question about the rubics. However, what happens wayyy too often is that people just complain or rant. And too often, their complaint is not about any true liturgical abuse, or improper rubric, but about something they just don’t like. Or they make uncharitable remarks about the priest or deacon, even the bishop and laypeople serving the Mass. Or they complain about something that is perfectly proper. That is why I personally would support a ban on complaint threads, but not honest questions threads. It gets rather disgusting at times.

As far as being able to “rant”, no I don’t believe this is the place for it. Write it down on a piece of paper, put it away for a few days, then destroy it. You’ll get over it without dragging down the rest of the crew here and making Catholics seem like chronic complainers.

And if something seems out of line, ask the people involved at the time, not people who weren’t even there. That is the adult way to handle things.

 

[clem456]

I am not sure if this should be here or not but it seems like there should be a ban on threads
that are rants about what did or didn’t happen at a particular Mass. They seem to start out as “worst Mass ever” etc. First of all, no one can judge what happen because basically none of us were there. Secondly, it **pits people against each other **and their opinions about Mass. Third, a number of them stem from the poster’s own ignorance of authorized readings and cycles, colors etc. Fourthly, complaints about what did or didn’t happen at a Mass need to be addressed to that particular priest or music director (many are complaints and opinions about the music than anything else). Finally, none of these types of threads ask productive questions like how to successfully approach a priest or music director with concerns and issues with the Mass and liturgy or what material can be used to support one’s thoughts when approaching with concerns. Rant threads are frankly embarrassing to see and read. They actually are belittling of the Mass for non-Catholics reading these threads and make Catholics looks like a bunch of nick-picky unhappy people and doesn’t present the Mass as a real encounter with the risen Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith.

 

[jwinch2]

When the day comes that liturgical abuse has been ended and the Mass is celebrated as something which is sacred throughout the universal Church, there will be thankfully, no need for threads such as are being described here. Unfortunately, when we have priests shooting Holy Water out of a squirt gun during Mass, etc. you are going to see them. When we have rubrics not being followed despite clear direction on how things should be done, you are gong to have them.

There is a reason that Rome is issuing a guide to help priests celebrate Mass properly, and it isn’t because everything is going so well. catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=16835

There is also a reason that Pope Benedict created a commission on sacred music and architecture, and it isn’t because we are overwhelmed with beauty at the Mass. vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/congregazioni-culto-divino-19678/

Until then, if you don’t like them, don’t read them. Pretty simple really. I have to avoid certain topics or threads on occasion myself when I get tired of it or it becomes too much. In addition, I agree that such threads can become tedious and sometimes are nothing more than people who are not properly informed on now the Mass is supposed to be celebrated making unsubstantiated claims about liturgical abuse. But, there are also legitimate issues which are discussed and there are real problems in the manner in which Mass is commonly celebrated. In addition, those people who are not completely informed as to the Mass often become more so as a result of their participation in the threads in question, which can only be a good thing.