Banning Eucharist on the Tongue because of H1N1

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This is an excellent suggestion! I think we’d have to add on another Mass time though to accomodate everyone. Maybe just have a thing of hand sanitizer attached to the side of every pew…

I’m saying if you move people 3 feet apart (front to back) it prevents the spread better, usually family members are next to each other side too side. When in the hospitals I take the stairs instead of the elevator.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Two Words “Cop out”.

Did the Catholic Church stop giving communion on tongue during the flu pandemic in the early 1900’s?

A couple of things there–one fewer people received communion regularly then and also the disease spread fast enough and people got very sick quickly enough, that many stopped going out at all. So it was much more likely that the priest simply didn’t distribute communion at all to the few people who came to Mass.

 

[jc-servant]

I’m saying if you move people 3 feet apart (front to back) it prevents the spread better, usually family members are next to each other side too side. When in the hospitals I take the stairs instead of the elevator.

In my parish we are happy to be 3 inches from the next person because nearly every weekend mass is full with extra chairs in the narthex and people in the side and back aisles and we already have 5 in English and 2 in Spanish. If we had to use only every other pew we would need to borrow a stadium since there are already too few hours to add more mass times.

I think that people need to bring their own sanitizing wipes and wipe off the back of the pew in front of them before mass and then use hand wipes on themselves just before going up to Communion. I already carry hand sanitizer because I have no idea about the cleanliness of the hands that I shake at the sign of peace. I’ve already reconciled myself to the fact that if I get sick it will most likely be due to my workplace that has a regular parade of people with every illness known to man and some less than stellar office cleaners. I have my own Lysol wipes at work also.

 

[Brendan]

As I understand it though, they stopped letting people drink from the Chalice when there was the Black Plague, and the custom stuck centuries after the Black Plague was eliminated.

Not quite true there. The Church stopped offering both species to combat the Utraquist Heresy, which stated that both species must be consumed for the Eucharist to be truely recieved.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

You’re more likely to pick up the germs on your hands from touching things, so this ban is completely absurd.

Back during the SARS scare, there was talk here in the Boston, MA. area that communion on the tongue would be banned if the epidemic spread to this part of the state. My mother and I invested in some Irish linen handkerchiefs just in case (ie. cover one hand with the handkerchief and use one corner to pick the Host up and transfer to the mouth). Neither of us is comfortable with touching the Host, so this will hopefully be recognized as a reasonable compromise.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

In my parish we are happy to be 3 inches from the next person because nearly every weekend mass is full with extra chairs in the narthex and people in the side and back aisles and we already have 5 in English and 2 in Spanish. If we had to use only every other pew we would need to borrow a stadium since there are already too few hours to add more mass times.

I think that people need to bring their own sanitizing wipes and wipe off the back of the pew in front of them before mass and then use hand wipes on themselves just before going up to Communion. I already carry hand sanitizer because I have no idea about the cleanliness of the hands that I shake at the sign of peace. I’ve already reconciled myself to the fact that if I get sick it will most likely be due to my workplace that has a regular parade of people with every illness known to man and some less than stellar office cleaners. I have my own Lysol wipes at work also.

Unless you are wearing surgical masks no amount of hand sanitizer will do anything in the situation you describe.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

That and most hand sanitizers only kill bacteria, not viruses and H1N1 is caused by a virus, so unless you’re bringing Lysol wipes and/or spray, it’s not going to be very effective.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

If I should catch “swine flu” and die because I was receiving Our Lord then I don’t believe I’ll be denied entry into Heaven.
Besides, H1N1 can be transmitted by airborne dropletts, so it wouldn’t matter where you receive Our Lord.:yup:

Yes, but how would you feel if you transmited it to someone else and they died?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

You’re more likely to pick up the germs on your hands from touching things, so this ban is completely absurd.

Yes and no. Yes, the most common way to spread something is through getting the virus on one’s hands and then touching one’s face.
However, giving out communion it is not uncommon for someone who received on the tongue to accidentally “lick” my finger or on occasion to move in such a way that their teeth hit my finger.
So if someone had H1N1, would you rather shake their hand or receive a host that possibly has trace elements of their saliva?

 

[jc-servant]

Yes and no. Yes, the most common way to spread something is through getting the virus on one’s hands and then touching one’s face.
However, giving out communion it is not uncommon for someone who received on the tongue to accidentally “lick” my finger or on occasion to move in such a way that their teeth hit my finger.
So if someone had H1N1, would you rather shake their hand or receive a host that possibly has trace elements of their saliva?

Exactly right about the saliva transfer!

 

[kage_ar]

When a Bishop makes a policy decision, it is published. Every Diocese in the US has a website. These important things are published there.

I have spent time looking at several Diocesian web sites, NONE of them have forbidden reception on the tongue. Some have advised this, but, there is no ban. Would any of you who have had this in your diocese please post a link to the official document from your Bishop?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

From the Diocese of Richmond:

          Diocese’s Response to the Recent  				Outbreak of Swine Flu
                                      			
		In response to an increasing number of reported cases of swine flu. We encourage those throughout the  			diocese to take all necessary precautions to prevent the spread of  			this potentially deadly virus. There are excellent resources  			providing information on the cause and prevention on the websites of  			the USCCB, the Center for Disease Control, as well as on a government  			website containing a checklist for faith based and community  			organizations. The Diocesan Office of Worship’s website has posted  			precautionary measures to take at liturgical celebrations. All  			persons throughout the diocese are encouraged to review the  			information posted to stay informed. If you are ill, please stay  			home from the workplace, as well as places of worship. We ask that  			prayers be offered during all liturgical celebrations for those who  			are ill and who have died, and for an end to the spread of this  			deadly virus.

---

		[www.cdc.gov/swineflu](http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu) 
		
		[ 			www.richmonddiocese.org/worship](http://www.richmonddiocese.org/worship)

---

Here is the link and you’ll note there is nothing there about refraining from communion on the tongue. I must say, I was surprised. However, I’ll check the USCCB’s site too. richmonddiocese.org/worship/docs/Swine_Flu_and_Liturgical_Celebrations.pdf

		[ 			www.usccb.org/liturgy/swineflu.shtml    ](http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/swineflu.shtml)

Nope, nothing here.

		[ 			www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/community/faithcomchecklist.html](http://www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/community/faithcomchecklist.html)

Or here.

Well, this explains while I still receive on the tongue and they don’t stop me! I would say this is a case where on reading in the pandemic part about the spread from coughing and sneezing and saliva, they just thought it would be ‘safer’ not to touch a person’s mouth.

And they were very careful again to say, as you noted, “one is advised” or "one is invited to refrain’. . .not an outright, “you may not.” I think it was well intentioned but OH LORD we all know about what ‘good intentions’ cause. . .

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

When a Bishop makes a policy decision, it is published. Every Diocese in the US has a website. These important things are published there.

I have spent time looking at several Diocesian web sites, NONE of them have forbidden reception on the tongue. Some have advised this, but, there is no ban. Would any of you who have had this in your diocese please post a link to the official document from your Bishop?

These aren’t US Dioceses. The first one I mentioned in my original post is the Diocese of Paranaque in the Metropolitan Manila area of the Philippines. They just have a multiply site.

chancery.multiply.com/journal/item/117/LITURGICAL_PRECAUTIONS_AND_OTHER_PREVENTIVE_MEASURES_IN_VIEW_OF_A_H1N1_VIRUS

Apparently though, they recently re-allowed Communion by the tongue; I wish they announced it in our parish.

The second one I mentioned in my original post is the Archdiocese of Manila.

rcam.org/liturgical_news/2009/circular_liturgical_precautions_in_view_of_AH1N1_virus.html

They also have lifted the ban. I’m only learning that now when I tried to look for the sources for you. Point still stands though, for a period of time, the bishops of both dioceses banned Eucharist on the tongue.

 

[kage_ar]

These aren’t US Dioceses. The first one I mentioned in my original post is the Diocese of Paranaque in the Metropolitan Manila area of the Philippines. They just have a multiply site.

chancery.multiply.com/journal/item/117/LITURGICAL_PRECAUTIONS_AND_OTHER_PREVENTIVE_MEASURES_IN_VIEW_OF_A_H1N1_VIRUS

Apparently though, they recently re-allowed Communion by the tongue; I wish they announced it in our parish.

The second one I mentioned in my original post is the Archdiocese of Manila.

rcam.org/liturgical_news/2009/circular_liturgical_precautions_in_view_of_AH1N1_virus.html

They also have lifted the ban. I’m only learning that now when I tried to look for the sources for you. Point still stands though, for a period of time, the bishops of both dioceses banned Eucharist on the tongue.

It seems these Bishops made a well-intentioned mistake and quickly worked to remedy it. Good for them!

 

[centurionguard]

This whole Post has me bothered inside. It’s not what Brothers and Sisters in Christ here are talking about with very good reason. Surely this H1N1 Swine Flu Virus has everybody very much worried. I too am worried with many school children in both the United States and Canada resuming another School year with vigilant fears of this N1N1 virus making headlines in the global news media. Strict hand washing routines are being introduced in public schools, universities, government offices, and places where we work. In our Catholic Churches safety protocols even at the Church doors and exits strongly promote antiseptic hand-washing. If banning the Eucharist on the Tongue because of H1N1 is being enforced in a number of parishes, what does this say about sharing in the communion chalice with the Sacred Blood of Christ. As I said before, all this about H1N1 Swine Flu incites fears.
But the clincher here is about our fervent FAITH. Undoubtedly minuscule droplets of saliva
from the faithful who partake of the Sacred Blood of Christ are placed on the inside of the Communion Chalice and multiply after hundreds from the congregation have received under both species. My question here is one of Faith. Would Jesus intentionally allow us to become ill with the swine flu; if we received under Both Species should some people in the congregation be infected by the H1N1 virus ? This is ultimately a question of Faith.

My sister-in-law was sick over the weekend. Her place of work will not clear her continuance back to work until she clears it with her doctor with a signed certificate that she has not contracted the Swine H1N1 Virus.

 

[dancny]

My parish, but apparently not the entire diocese, has banned receiving from the cup for the time being. Receiving on the tounge is ok, though. They reccomend that the EME’s either us a provided antibacterial in the front room prior to mass or wash prior to mass.

Yes, you mouth is dirtier than your hand, unless all of my science teachers were wrong.

As an EME I TRY, to rub the edges of the host slightly or give it a shake for any crumbs. When I receive I try to remember to check my own hand for a particle. In the training we had it was stressed that every part is still Jesus and should be respected.

For me, I put it to faith. I am a recovering alcoholic. I do not count the sip of wine or finishing the cup at the end of communion as drinking because it is the body and blood of Christ and I cannot believe that God will hurt me. Yes, I know that the incidents of the wine remain, it is still alcohol, but I place my trust in God. I will not be sickened, I will not go on a bender. That works for me. It doesn’t work for everyone and i would not try to suggest that it does. It’s just me.

I understand that the wine has been suspended at the Catholic High Schools in the area also…

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Would Jesus intentionally allow us to become ill with the swine flu; if we received under Both Species should some people in the congregation be infected by the H1N1 virus ? This is ultimately a question of Faith.

I disagree quite strongly. This is not a “question of faith” but a matter of science. After all, people have been killed when churches have collapsed, did Jesus “intentionally allow” that to happen? If someone walked in with a gun and started shooting, is it a question of faith or phsyics that people would dive for cover?

 

[JReducation]

. My question here is one of Faith. Would Jesus intentionally allow us to become ill with the swine flu; if we received under Both Species should some people in the congregation be infected by the H1N1 virus ? This is ultimately a question of Faith.

.

Faith does not operate in a bubble. This is a question of common sense. Of course Jesus would allow you to get the H1N1. Why would God interfere with biology when it’s not necessary?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[centurionguard]

Faith does not operate in a bubble. This is a question of common sense. Of course Jesus would allow you to get the H1N1. Why would God interfere with biology when it’s not necessary?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Br. JR, OSF ; Don’t you think it would be prudent then on behalf of the Bishops to incite a temporary rule to his brother priests (“with the threat of the H1N1 virus strongly looming over the Church Faithful”) that the Sacred Blood of Christ will “ONLY” be dispensed under (“Intinction”) ? Sounds prudently logical to me.

Fraternally;
Chris

 

[Eric_Olsen]

No, I would say, “more advanced knowledge.”

Also, I would say, “understandable fear of lawsuit.” (Can you say, “ambulance chaser?”)

oh please - kind of hard to prove that.
Let the ambulance chasers chase all they want.
I think the Swine flu will be the excuse the liberal Bishops and priests need to
NOT give communion on the tongue.