Banning movies

[TomPiltoff]

Sure, people shoud be allowed to do/watch what they like, but the question remains why anyone would want to do/watch a lot of the smut that’s being generated out there. If demand drives production then the fact that there is so much gratuitous sex in our media suggests people are demanding this. The thing is, why demand violence and sex as entertainment?

People watch pornography for obvious reasons. And violence sells because it’s violence. People are intrigued by it on some level.

Here I would ask what the line being drawn is between ‘ok’ for adults but not for kids. If it’s bad for kids’ minds, what about it makes is so? What is the concern for the kids? Will they be corrupted in some way?

Those questions are exactly why responsibility should be placed in parents hands and not governments. If somebody doesn’t want their kid watching The Terminator, then they need to make sure they do a good job of keeping that content away.

The wrong thing to do is say ‘The Terminator is too violent for kids, so we won’t air it’.

If so, then what is the magic delineating mark between ‘kid’ and ‘adult’ where the harm is no longer a risk? We’ve already seen that many adults cannot handle the smut being bombarded on their minds - depression is up, drug use in adults is up, inattentiveness is up, STDs are up, marriage is down, family size is down, kids are being moved from one house to another through multiple divorce/remarriage scenarios. Apparently ‘maturity’ and/or ‘age’ does not act as a protective barrier for the influx of unhealthy images/messages.

Depression, drug use, STD’s, decline in marriage…none of those things are caused by media.

Gee, thanks for the flashback imagery of “Beach Blanket Bingo” , but yeah, I see what you mean.

The thing is, Hollywood doesn’t have to take it ‘further’, they just need to make it ‘new’ or ‘different’. Fashion, music, art move in cycles with a few ‘new’ innovations along the way. What happens when they’ve taken it ‘all the way’? Then what?

Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

Those are toys. We’re talking about images and words which convey a certain ideal. We already know that corporations would sell cigarettes, alcohol and anything else to a child if people would let it slide. We’re just now making the cigarette companies pay for that. Will it take an increase in rapes, domestic abuse, STD epidemics, drug addictions and the like before we start sueing media executives for producing the shows/materials which led people to live out those role model lives?

Well, again, media does not cause those things. it glorifies them, sure. But a whole host of other things have to occur before somebody hits their wife or rapes. Major parental neglect.

For somebody to go kill a person because they played a violent game…that person was already crazy.

But what is entertaining about violence and gratuitous sex in the first place? That’s the question we Christians are raising. What is entertaining about films like Taxi Driver, 13, Scarface, and any other action or horror film which depicts gang rapes and drug addictions? I just don’t get it. If you don’t want your kids to be exposed to it, why expose yourself???

I’m not defending gratuitous violence or sex because those are all matters of personal preference. I’m not at all making the case for why families should watch Robocop at Christmas, I’m just pointing out that there IS a market for this stuff.

 

[YinYangMom]

People watch pornography for obvious reasons. And violence sells because it’s violence. People are intrigued by it on some level.

Yeah, we all get that. But you seem to have taken on the role of devil’s advocate in this discussion, and you consider yourself atheist, so I have to ask: That ‘people’ watch porn for obvious reasons and violence sells, is that something you are comfortable with on a personal level? It doesn’t concern you at all that so many people are getting off on porn and violence through every popular media outlet? Do you not see the overall damage that mindset has had on our society as a whole? Or do you really believe everything’s fine as it is, and as the media continues to push ‘further’ it won’t have a negative impact on our society?

The wrong thing to do is say ‘The Terminator is too violent for kids, so we won’t air it’.

I’m actually with you on that one. I’m definitely an advocate for free speech, but I also recognize free speech can lead to civil wars, so how do we strike a balance? Somebody has to. The absence of order is chaos so there must be some order and therefore there must be some authoritative body to help set the guidelines.

I would much rather see education be the solution than legislation, but if it takes legislation to bring about the proper environment where learning can take place then I’m for that.

Depression, drug use, STD’s, decline in marriage…none of those things are caused by media.

I would disagree, because I am seeing a lot of people expecting real life to be like they see in the magazines and televisions. Intimate relationships are prohibited from developing a foundation when pornography is part of the picture because no woman, no man can live up to the fantasies portrayed in those movies. Gay marriage is being discussed seriously in Congress because society has been conditioned through the media to view the lifestyle as just ‘different’, not ‘morally wrong’. But I know there are many, like you, who hold the view one does not have to do with the other.

Well, again, media does not cause those things. it glorifies them, sure. But a whole host of other things have to occur before somebody hits their wife or rapes. Major parental neglect.

I’m not stating media causes those things, but it certainly contributes to them, and that’s my point. If we see the effects of such ‘entertainment’ why continue along those lines?

For somebody to go kill a person because they played a violent game…that person was already crazy.

Another point on which we agree. I’m not an advocate of the position that video games drive people to become killers. However, I recognize it is more a matter of the nature of video game playing itself which can drive people to become killers. The hours I see kids **and **grown adults spend on game playing - even non-violent games, like sports games, racing, RPG, and guitar hero type games - is the culprit here. It leads to an reinforces anti-social behavior. They get so caught up in the alternate world (much as porn addicts and drug addicts) that they prefer it to real life. In this alternate world they have more control and they get ‘do-overs’. The real world is more harsh. Anti-social behavior is the beginning of the decline in respect for other people - for life in general.

I’m not defending gratuitous violence or sex because those are all matters of personal preference. I’m not at all making the case for why families should watch Robocop at Christmas, I’m just pointing out that there IS a market for this stuff.

I agree there is a market. I am asking if, as members of this society, we have concluded this market has been for the overall well-being of society or a detriment to it. When it was a small market that was manageable, such as seeing that stuff in the cinema where you pay money for that thrill, while television programming was bland and wholesome, it was more manageable. Now it is on just about every channel (not just premium cable channels) and even downloadable to cell phones! This, I believe, is taking it too far. The negative effects will soon be out of anyone’s control, and it’s not us who will pay the price for this, it is our children and their children.

EdWest’s call to ban this stuff is an attempt to pull the funding source from the production companies and the empower families to interact with each other in constructive, entertaining ways. The time away from the tube and the movies, if spent with each other (that’s a big IF), can strengthen society beginning with the family and extending to neighbors and such.

 

[edwest2]

I did not write “let’s ban all of this stuff.” I am saying, and this time, only to my fellow Catholics, enough is enough. It’s time to sit back, evaluate our entertainment options and pick those that are worthy. We are told to avoid sin. And yes, there is an addictive component to watching TV and playing video games and using the internet.

A little self control is in order. No, you’re not going to turn into some sort of deranged person from playing too many video games, but the Bible tells us, overindulgence is bad physically, mentally and spiritually.

My suggestion is to look at movies and say, this one is good, and this one is bad. We need to draw a line and not involve ourselves in any media that leads to sin. Avoid following the crowd in doing evil.

For myself, I’ve crossed off a bunch of magazines, books, TV programs, movies and some electronic games. And I’ve sent e-mails to the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) when I’ve seen real trash on TV. I’d rather look at a newspaper than watch the noisy, flashy, superficial nonsense that passes for TV news.

In the 1950s and 1960s, most men’s magazines featured nudity. Then, in 1970, no coincidence with the upcoming sexualization of all media, the hard core stuff began coming out, quickly followed by the opening of many so-called “Adult” (as if that makes it OK) Bookstores (few actual books by the way).

So here we are. I encourage you, turn away from sin. Replace that time with things that are healthy for body, mind and spirit. In the end, God, family and friends are all you have.

God bless,
Ed

 

[TomPiltoff]

Yeah, we all get that. But you seem to have taken on the role of devil’s advocate in this discussion, and you consider yourself atheist, so I have to ask: That ‘people’ watch porn for obvious reasons and violence sells, is that something you are comfortable with on a personal level?

Pornography I have no problem with. Whether or not you morally agree with it, my stance is that nobody is getting hurt.

Violence is a complicated one. I personally don’t have a problem with violent movies or games. I don’t at all consider myself a violent person, but I wouldn’t play a videogame where you’re tossing food at panda bears versus one where I can feel like I’m in a warzone. At some level it is purely entertainment.

I have a problem when that violence affects people. I consider myself able to easily distinguish what is appropriate in real life versus a game or movie, but apparently some people don’t.

The solution, however, isn’t to go after the media but the root cause of the violence, whatever it may be.

It doesn’t concern you at all that so many people are getting off on porn and violence through every popular media outlet? Do you not see the overall damage that mindset has had on our society as a whole? Or do you really believe everything’s fine as it is, and as the media continues to push ‘further’ it won’t have a negative impact on our society?

As I said, I acknowledge that for some people violent media plays a part in their attitude. I just don’t think limiting mature adults choices in what to watch is the right thing to do.

I would much rather see education be the solution than legislation, but if it takes legislation to bring about the proper environment where learning can take place then I’m for that.

I would too, but in my mind that’s purely a hypothetical scenario. I don’t see how banning certain media would immediately lead to a more wizened society. Way too much room for fanaticism in that.

I would disagree, because I am seeing a lot of people expecting real life to be like they see in the magazines and televisions. Intimate relationships are prohibited from developing a foundation when pornography is part of the picture because no woman, no man can live up to the fantasies portrayed in those movies.

But that is just another example of media corrupting an already morally bankrupt person. Someone raised by responsible parents would know that when they see a sleazy Hollywood sex scene it’s unrealistic.

Gay marriage is being discussed seriously in Congress because society has been conditioned through the media to view the lifestyle as just ‘different’, not ‘morally wrong’. But I know there are many, like you, who hold the view one does not have to do with the other.

Well I don’t believe there’s anything immoral about homosexuality.

I’m not stating media causes those things, but it certainly contributes to them, and that’s my point. If we see the effects of such ‘entertainment’ why continue along those lines?

Because people who allow violent media to change their actions in the real world are the ones with the problem. Why should I, as a responsible adult, have my right to watch a popcorn action movie taken away because of somebody who can’t make the distinction?

I’ll say it again, violent media only corrupts the already corrupted. Nobody ever hurt anybody strictly because of a movie or videogame. Something went horribly wrong in their upbringing to believe harming others is OK.

Another point on which we agree. I’m not an advocate of the position that video games drive people to become killers. However, I recognize it is more a matter of the nature of video game playing itself which can drive people to become killers. The hours I see kids **and **grown adults spend on game playing - even non-violent games, like sports games, racing, RPG, and guitar hero type games - is the culprit here. It leads to an reinforces anti-social behavior. They get so caught up in the alternate world (much as porn addicts and drug addicts) that they prefer it to real life. In this alternate world they have more control and they get ‘do-overs’. The real world is more harsh. Anti-social behavior is the beginning of the decline in respect for other people - for life in general.

Which is where parents come in and kick their kids off the Xbox after 2 hours and make them get some fresh air. Everything in moderation.

 

[TomPiltoff]

I agree there is a market. I am asking if, as members of this society, we have concluded this market has been for the overall well-being of society or a detriment to it. When it was a small market that was manageable, such as seeing that stuff in the cinema where you pay money for that thrill, while television programming was bland and wholesome, it was more manageable. Now it is on just about every channel (not just premium cable channels) and even downloadable to cell phones! This, I believe, is taking it too far. The negative effects will soon be out of anyone’s control, and it’s not us who will pay the price for this, it is our children and their children.

But banning these things is a temporary solution to a much bigger problem. People are being raised without developing a moral center.

 

[YinYangMom]

Well, how 'bout that?
I actually agree with the 3 previous posts, the one from EdWest clarifying his position and with the two from Tom (although there are a few points on which I respectfully disagree, but it’s not important for this overall discussion).

Unless I’m mistaken it seems both authors agreed on moderation in all things, and both are proponents of responsible parenting as the foundation for how any of this negative stuff affects the next generation. I would add that if parents are that diligent in their parenting, the adults, too, would benefit from the suggestion. I suspect this attitude would also affect ratings and sales which could possibly help the media swing the pendulum in the other direction.

I can hope and pray, and in the meantime keep an eye out for my own viewing/listening/reading habits and those of my children.

 

[edwest2]

To my fellow Catholics:

The way unbelievers view certain problems is not relevant to Catholics. The biggest problem is the belief that you can raise your kids one way with certain restrictions and when they become adults, the restrictions are gone. Example: In the movie, Dennis the Menace, a point is made to show a stack of men’s magazines. An adult tells Dennis, “Those aren’t for kids” clearly implying it’s A-OK for adults. My fellow Catholics, which sins go away as we pass from childhood to adulthood?

And pornography. This leads to addictive, sinful behavior. Not only is time wasted for the purpose of lust, but it harms our right relationship with God. It amazes me that the secular world’s campaign against turning women into “objects” for the enjoyment of men has fizzled when it comes to this subject. The “no one is getting hurt” argument is not a valid one for Catholics.

God bless,
Ed

 

[goofyjim]

Without reading through this whole thread, we shouldn’t ban any movies. That is censorship, which is not welcome in a free society. If you don’t like a movie don’t watch it. If enough people don’t view it it will lose money and the producers won’t do it again. Otherwise let it be.

 

[TomPiltoff]

The way unbelievers view certain problems is not relevant to Catholics.

I agree with you, but when a ban on anything is suggested, it affects us non-believers as well.