Banning movies

[edwest2]

What you put into your head matters. When you agree to allow certain words and images into your head without discretion or discernment, what are you doing? Even when actors only pretend to do certain things, like have sex outside of marriage, is that what you want to meditate on for two hours at the movies?

In our daily lives, there must be time for work, for eating, for doing all the necessary things we do everyday and there is realaxation. We also put aside time to pray and go to Church. The Bible tells us to think on things that have some virtue. Our Father in Heaven understands our humanness and He Himself rested.

I just want to encourage people to realize that the Body of Christ has become too much like the world. We are told to avoid that. Not hide away but find such activities that are proper and right. We are told to be holy in all that we do.

God bless,
Ed

 

[YinYangMom]

I strongly disagree. By their fruit you will know them.

God bless,
Ed

You’ve said that before.
So, let’s carry that through, shall we?
By their fruits you shall know them.
Them, being, as RenaissanceMare suggested, "a nefarious black ops organization out there saying “let’s show sex in a movie to destroy Christianity”…and those who are "sitting around saying “Christians are against abortion, so let’s write an abortion into the storyline for this season”.

You’re good at pointing out the fruits of labor, Edwest, and no one really challenges you on the fact that most of it is morally corrupt, but show us, then, the who behind those fruits.

One can cite the producer, the director, the network, the writers, etc. of any one particular ‘fruit’ but to claim we can deduce from any one branch of that tree there is a conspiracy going on specifically targeted against Catholicism is a reach.

Show us, then, your deductive reasoning which leads you to that conclusion. Start with one show and trace it back to the organization behind this campaign.

Basically, we are just asking that you stop broadstroking the real problems in mainstream media as a conspiracy. Let’s discuss the real issues and work from there and I think we can work together toward the same goal (not necessarily banning all movies and television, however).

 

[YinYangMom]

I cannot speak for EdWest2, but I didn’t read him as arguing a conspiracy. However, in sense, we can say that there is one. Since the days of our first parents, the devil has sought to attack God’s truth and tempt us to believe in his lies. He has tirelessly attacked the Church and continues to try to do so, especially in a publicly-influential way like the media. So while the people who make decisions about what appears in the media are physically very far from united, they are united, unconsciously, when the give into temptations to perpetuate Satan’s lies and all take part in an attack of the Church. They are not intentionally seeking that attack, necessarily, but remain primary agents of that attack.

I cannot agree with you, RenaissanceMare. People are exposed to enough evil (immorality) in their lives. If we want to help them, we must expose them to good things. Today people spend a lot of time watching movies and learn a lot from them. We need to encourage good things rather than bad things (pornographic imagery). You are absolutely correct that art should depict what is true, but sin, Satan’s lies, is the farthest thing from truth.

The Fall of Man is not a conspiracy in any sense of the word. Because of the Fall we’ll always be tempted by Satan to reject God’s will for us, that’s the consequence of Adam and Eve’s disobedience, not a conspiracy.

I do believe mainstream media, at any given time, reflects the ideals/beliefs/practices of the viewing audience. Note that I do not believe it reflects society as a whole, because I know there are many, many people who do not believe or behave in the manner currently represented as ‘normal’.

To me, mainstream media is a tool we can use as a gauge for how much work we need to do. The viewing audience is voting with their money the type of programming they deem ‘entertaining’. Producers and media managers cater to the $$ and it appears those in the position to produce material could care less about the message any given show portrays. They aren’t in the business for moral reasons (that’s a different discussion altogether), they’re in it for the $$.

I can tell you why Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park and other programs are popular because I’ve watched them and discussed them with many people. It doesn’t matter whether or not it’s ‘right’, what matters is ‘why’ do people find these shows worth spending hours at a time soaking in. Once we can figure the elements out we can then incorporate those into wholesome programming.

But, even if we get writers to develop the wholesome alternatives to those shows, the bigger challenge is to find producers willing to spend their money creating them. Next we have to find executives to put them on the air. This is where the problem lies.

As EdWest pointed out earlier, there was a time when the church was active in media. We left for a time, perhaps because it was getting to be too much of a Goliath, but leaving wasn’t the answer. EdWest correctly points out that our absence helped create this mess we’re in now. I think the answer is to get back into the fight, not ban the programming.

 

[cue]

I think the answer is to get back into the fight, not ban the programming.

You are definitely right. We need to get back in. However, banning stuff was the way we get in the first time. The Catholic boycott of Hollywood threaten the $$ of the producers, etc. Unfortunately, I do not think Catholics (even priests and bishops) would obey in a situation like that.

 

[YinYangMom]

You are definitely right. We need to get back in. However, banning stuff was the way we get in the first time. The Catholic boycott of Hollywood threaten the $$ of the producers, etc. Unfortunately, I do not think Catholics (even priests and bishops) would obey in a situation like that.

I suppose for the sake of this thread boycott and banning can be viewed as the same course of action.

Can you tell me more about that boycott? Was it union backed? Was it the producers or writers or actors doing the boycotting? Or was is Rome directed faithful Catholics to boycott Hollywood by not attending movies or plays?

I’m wondering if we can get the approach to work for us today.

 

[edwest2]

First, peaceful and prayerful boycotts are good. And the Church did take a definite stand in the early days of Hollywood:

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_29061936_vigilanti-cura_en.html

Christ does not force any of us to follow Him. As a dear friend once told me, you can’t force anyone to love you.

The 'black ops" team is made up of those who live in spiritual darkness and led by the god of this world, the devil. The Bible tells us that we do not battle against flesh and blood. Man is born into a state of original sin. He does not automatically go toward the good. None of us are perfect, not one.

Things have changed from 40 years ago. Why? For Catholics, we gradually, very gradually, began to drift from being fed on God’s rules and being fed more by what the world was giving us. It began in the 1950s when television became widespread, everyone could expect wholesome entertainment, and this continued on in the 1960s and part of the 1970s. But gradually, the immoral crept in, but addiction and familiarity had taken over. TV was our instant-on drug of choice. It’s time to break the habit.

As the Legion of Decency closed in 1970, Hollywood went into the immoral sunset, and is now trying to make pornography legitimate. The internet is helping to speed the process.

Catholics live in a black and white world where sin is sin and there is right and wrong. An attempt is being made to turn it into “well, that’s just your opinion.” The Word of God tells us otherwise.

I suggest each of us should look at our movie choices and be guided by conscience and Scripture. The last movie I saw that fell into the good category was Cars by PIXAR. There are so many other things we could be doing to relax like reading, playing games with our families and taking up a hobby. Ever want to learn how to draw? There are classes. And libraries are still around. Some electronic games are OK.

Don’t follow the crowd in doing evil. As I’ve heard on Catholic radio, holiness is possible. We should try to be more Christ-like not like the world. I hope this helps.

God bless,
Ed

 

[YinYangMom]

Thanks for the link, EdWest. I’ll look into it later this evening.

I just got notice from Blockbuster that “Cars” is in the mail today so I look forward to watching it this week.

As for banning movies, there’s a discussion taking place here about Laura Ingraham’s interview on EWTN. I point it out in this thread because in that interview Laura addresses the immoral media issue and the ‘just turn it off’ approach to bringing about change in the media. This comes in the second half of the show at about the 30 minute mark if you’re interested in hearing her perspective for the sake of this discussion here.

 

[edwest2]

I think Catholics have three options. One is to turn it off but the second should be to politely complain: www.fcc.gov There is such a thing as indecency.

The third thing is to look at the time you would have spent watching TV and then doing something Godly during that time. It could be reading a book or calling a friend or playing a game.

God bless,
Ed

 

[cue]

I’m wondering if we can get the approach to work for us today.

I do not think there would be enough cooperation among the clergy or laity for this to work.

The MPPDA responded to criticism of the racy and violent pre-Code films by strengthening the Code. The Code was further fortified by the creation of the Catholic Legion of Decency, which designated “indecent” films that Catholics should boycott.

Quoted from The Hays Code (sorry about the images on the page).

For more info on the Legion of Decency, go HERE.

 

[edwest2]

It is documented, by the time the Hippies started getting attention in 1968, things really went down hill in Hollywood. And the recent television series starring David Duchovny, titled Californication, shows what the results are.

My Catholic brothers and sisters, we are in the world but should not be of the world.

God bless,
Ed

 

[RenaissanceMare]

I don’t want to make it sound like I think media should be a free for all, nor should truly indecent material be allowed, but I do feel that some of the immorality is a reflection of the lives we’re living in the real world. For example, I’m not going to call a non-nudity, tasteful sex scene between two unmarried people indecency because it’s reflecting…however wrong it may be…how people live their lives. Sort of like the “N” word’s use in literature. Obviously it was wrong, but it was a reflection of the times. I only hope that someday we’ll look back at the sex/violence/etc. in movies from this time period the way we do when Mark Twain drops the “N” word in his books ie “that’s how things were when people didn’t know any better.”

However, I do think indecency should be combated. And I think the first step of combating it is pornography. I do no believe it should be “mainstream”. And I think women and even now girls dressing provactively should be avoided and discouraged and spoken out against. I am the first one to say to get some clothes on these singers, actresses, etc.

So I’m not against morality on TV/movies/etc., I’m saying that the worst of it should be combated head on, but the less outraegous parts of it need to be battled by making it irrelevent to current lifestyle. I hope that makes sense…

 

[edwest2]

“tasteful” By whose standards? God’s or the world’s? I’m not going to take it anymore. Some misguided person wrote: “We get the culture we deserve.” I don’t deserve this. I won’t choose it and I encourage my Catholic brothers and sisters not to choose it.

We can live like the world lives, do what the world does, but that makes us just like the world. Jesus overcame the world. He was tempted but overcame it. He is our example, not the world.

The world tells us: “Hey, what’s the big deal? No one’s gettin hurt. Hey! Leave my porn alone! You don’t like it, that’s fine, but I love it. Oh yeah!” The world is spiritually bankrupt. Everything immoral is OK.

We need to stop this in our own lives. Just stop it. Somehow, for decades, Hollywood knew how to make clean movies and TV shows. Then they just what? Forgot?

God bless,
Ed

 

[TomPiltoff]

The world tells us: “Hey, what’s the big deal? No one’s gettin hurt. Hey! Leave my porn alone! You don’t like it, that’s fine, but I love it. Oh yeah!” The world is spiritually bankrupt. Everything immoral is OK.

Following that line of thinking, do you think I should be jailed for being an atheist? After all, it’s completely immoral in the view of your religion, and you seem to think that your personal beliefs should reflect on the rest of the world.

We need to stop this in our own lives. Just stop it. Somehow, for decades, Hollywood knew how to make clean movies and TV shows. Then they just what? Forgot?

No, they didn’t forget. Hollywood today is just the natural progression of things.

Right or wrong, you’ve got to see how things would go from ‘WOW Marilyn Monroe sure is showing a lot of leg!’ to almost completely nude outfits, for example.

Hollywood makes money by giving people new things. Sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s bad.

 

[YinYangMom]

Following that line of thinking, do you think I should be jailed for being an atheist? After all, it’s completely immoral in the view of your religion, and you seem to think that your personal beliefs should reflect on the rest of the world.

The atheists I’ve been privileged to know have been in agreement about nudity and sex being placed on prime time television and commercials when the target audience for that time frame is children or young adults.

It’s not a matter of ‘our personal beliefs’. It’s a matter of right/wrong, healthy/unhealthy for a young mind to be exposed to at certain stages of its development and how constant exposure to certain messages will affect the good of society, as a whole.

Atheists are just as concerned about a moral order to society and laws as those of a particular faith. We all want what’s best for the individual and the society.

Are you saying, as an atheist, you have no problem allowing your children to visit porn sites or even legal sites which are soft-porn?

No, they didn’t forget. Hollywood today is just the natural progression of things.

There is no ‘natural’ progression for media because media is a reflection of society as a whole. There may be a ‘natural’ progression for any given society, and I’m convinced the majority of any given society would be opposed to programming which shows child incest or pornography or beastiality during prime time and on every bookshelf in a grocery store. A line **is **present across the board of peoples’ belief systems. We Catholics believe that line is the one God wrote into each individual soul that is why whether or not one claims spirituality or any particular institutional religion they still have a sense of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ behavior.

Right or wrong, you’ve got to see how things would go from ‘WOW Marilyn Monroe sure is showing a lot of leg!’ to almost completely nude outfits, for example.

I think that’s part of this discussion…how did we get from showing a lot of leg being a shocker in a feature film to partial nude sex scenes on primetime dramas as ‘no big deal’? What do you think led to the shift?

Hollywood makes money by giving people new things. Sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s bad.

Patooey. Hollywood wouldn’t know ‘new’ if it knocked them off their feet. Different, maybe, new, nope. They tap into one successful formula at a time and run it to the ground until there is no more money coming in from that format. But that’s the nature of their business.

“new” comes from writers and while I’m certain there is a load of ‘new’ ideas already in existence out there, darn Hollywood can’t seem to stick their necks out except maybe once every ten years or so. Even then, it isn’t Hollywood taking the risk as much as it is one person who has a vision and a load of cash to back up that vision to take the risk needed to bring the ‘new’ concept to life.

 

[TomPiltoff]

The atheists I’ve been privileged to know have been in agreement about nudity and sex being placed on prime time television and commercials when the target audience for that time frame is children or young adults.

Who wouldn’t agree with that?

Yes, but it’s also important that adults are allowed to do/watch what they like. A certain responsibility is put on the parent to make sure their kid isn’t watching anything violent or inappropriate.

Wow, what!? When did I ever say anything like that?

I’m saying that, as a mature adult, I want to be able to watch a violent movie or TV show if I like.

When I said natural progression I meant that the job of media entertainment is to get the audience interested. In the 50’s if a company wanted to attract the horny male teen demographic, they’d release a movie featuring an actress in a one piece bathing suit. It was new, it was exciting!

In 2007 a woman in a one piece bathing suit is not new, it is not exciting, so media has to go further.

There may be a ‘natural’ progression for any given society, and I’m convinced the majority of any given society would be opposed to programming which shows child incest or pornography or beastiality during prime time and on every bookshelf in a grocery store.

I’d love to know which grocery store sells child incest or beastiality porn.

we get from showing a lot of leg being a shocker in a feature film to partial nude sex scenes on primetime dramas as ‘no big deal’? What do you think led to the shift?

As I said, it’s all relative. Take an iPod, for example. I am absolutely amazed at the ability to put thousands of songs on such a tiny device.

Some day my son or daughter will be using the latest music device that makes iPod seem like a childs toy and it will be no big deal to them.

I’m not talking about originality in Hollywood, I’m talking about what draws people in. More violence, more skin.

 

[edwest2]

To paraphrase the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., a Christian, “Modern technology has made the world a neighborhood. We must make it a brotherhood.”

Peaceful cooperation between all peoples and beliefs should be the goal. That’s my goal.

People want more skin and violence? What people? Under the false, pleasant sounding euphemism Adult Entertainment, we’re talking hard-core pornography, strip clubs and grocery store magazines that show a little but provide ways to get you to see the rest. Ever hear George Carlin give people a few tips on bestiality?

Mature Adult? More euphemisms on TV, like Adult Language, Adult Content, Strong Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Situations, that all boil down to sex, profanity and some degree of nudity. As a Catholic, all the things I’ve been taught are wrong are still wrong when I become a Mature Adult. Period.

What I write here is available for everyone to read but it comes from a Catholic perspective and in keeping with a Biblical command to encourage one another and help each other deal with being Catholic in a secular, sex soaked culture. I hope you understand I’m not here to give atheists a hard time but to make Catholics aware of things that may affect them negatively.

We are all at different stages in our walk with the Lord, some are new converts, some are long established and some deal with a particular sin or problem.

I have been documenting a direct cause and effect relationship between the Catholic Church and the Movie Industry. The Legion of Decency was formed in 1930 to combat immorality in film. After it stopped in 1970, the media, across the board, gradually, very gradually, dripped poison into the Body of Christ. I watched as my fellow Catholics began to incorporate various things into their lives that were wrong, primarily cohabitation with fornication and abortion, shortly after 1973. Then divorce took off in the 1980s when No-Fault Divorce was available across the country.

I watched as movies and television programs began to incorporate more and more immoral elements, culminating in Partial Nudity and Adult Language on ABC in the 1990s. Then, the internet became the outlet of choice for you name it.

So, no, Catholics did not arrive at this point by accident. They began to act out what they saw both in movies and on TV and were reinforced by others, Catholic and non-Catholic, who gradually came to believe that what was once not OK, was OK. If we, as Catholics, are going to climb out of the ditch of being just like the world in terms of abortion, cohabitation, divorce and many other important issues facing us, we need to say no to immorality wherever we encounter it.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Bennie_P]

Assuming that the movie was not pornographic, graphically violent, full of Satanic and occult themes, or blatently anti-Christian, would you go see your friend’s movie?

Do you really assume such a movie as that is made anymore?

 

[Bennie_P]

Ughghghghghg. How many times must I say that I’m not talking about fringe militant atheists who, though they hate religion, aren’t nearly large enough to post a threat to any ideology?

OTHER THAN that small group, there is nobody who just blindly hates Christianity, let alone the kind of massive, organized media effort you’re suggesting.

Really?

[sign]http://www.actupny.org/documents/stopchurch.JPG[/sign]

 

[TomPiltoff]

People want more skin and violence? What people? Under the false, pleasant sounding euphemism Adult Entertainment, we’re talking hard-core pornography, strip clubs and grocery store magazines that show a little but provide ways to get you to see the rest. Ever hear George Carlin give people a few tips on bestiality?

Erm, when I said ‘skin and violence’ I was obviously referring to the movie industry.

And yes, people do want skin and violence. What people? Enough of them.

Mature Adult? More euphemisms on TV, like Adult Language, Adult Content, Strong Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Situations, that all boil down to sex, profanity and some degree of nudity. As a Catholic, all the things I’ve been taught are wrong are still wrong when I become a Mature Adult. Period.

Some of my favorite films feature some element of adult themes, nudity, violence or cursing. I am not a bad person for enjoying those things.

You can’t write a drama where the villain shakes his fist and says “darn you to heck!”, Ed.

What I write here is available for everyone to read but it comes from a Catholic perspective and in keeping with a Biblical command to encourage one another and help each other deal with being Catholic in a secular, sex soaked culture. I hope you understand I’m not here to give atheists a hard time but to make Catholics aware of things that may affect them negatively.

My problem is that you’re so vague, Ed. You introduce a broad stroke of an idea (example: the media hates Christianity) and then you don’t explain the finer points to your thought.

If we, as Catholics, are going to climb out of the ditch of being just like the world in terms of abortion, cohabitation, divorce and many other important issues facing us, we need to say no to immorality wherever we encounter it.

I disagree (obviously as a non-Catholic). There’s obviously an obsession with violence in our media, but the solution isn’t to say ‘all violence in media is wrong’. What about good, thought provoking films that incorporate violence? It’s not all gung ho and mindless.

Really?

[sign]http://www.actupny.org/documents/stopchurch.JPG[/sign]

Ah yes, and we all remember how that church disappea…oh wait, nothing happened.

 

[YinYangMom]

Who wouldn’t agree with that?Yes, but it’s also important that adults are allowed to do/watch what they like.

Sure, people shoud be allowed to do/watch what they like, but the question remains why anyone would want to do/watch a lot of the smut that’s being generated out there. If demand drives production then the fact that there is so much gratuitous sex in our media suggests people are demanding this. The thing is, why demand violence and sex as entertainment?

A certain responsibility is put on the parent to make sure their kid isn’t watching anything violent or inappropriate.

Here I would ask what the line being drawn is between ‘ok’ for adults but not for kids. If it’s bad for kids’ minds, what about it makes is so? What is the concern for the kids? Will they be corrupted in some way?

If so, then what is the magic delineating mark between ‘kid’ and ‘adult’ where the harm is no longer a risk? We’ve already seen that many adults cannot handle the smut being bombarded on their minds - depression is up, drug use in adults is up, inattentiveness is up, STDs are up, marriage is down, family size is down, kids are being moved from one house to another through multiple divorce/remarriage scenarios. Apparently ‘maturity’ and/or ‘age’ does not act as a protective barrier for the influx of unhealthy images/messages.

Wow, what!? When did I ever say anything like that? I’m saying that, as a mature adult, I want to be able to watch a violent movie or TV show if I like.

No, you didn’t say anything like that. I raised the issue of parent/child situations to see if you believe in ‘appropriateness’ for one group or the other.

When I said natural progression I meant that the job of media entertainment is to get the audience interested. In the 50’s if a company wanted to attract the horny male teen demographic, they’d release a movie featuring an actress in a one piece bathing suit. It was new, it was exciting!
In 2007 a woman in a one piece bathing suit is not new, it is not exciting, so media has to go further.

Gee, thanks for the flashback imagery of “Beach Blanket Bingo” , but yeah, I see what you mean.

The thing is, Hollywood doesn’t have to take it ‘further’, they just need to make it ‘new’ or ‘different’. Fashion, music, art move in cycles with a few ‘new’ innovations along the way. What happens when they’ve taken it ‘all the way’? Then what?

I’d love to know which grocery store sells child incest or beastiality porn.

They already sell fashion and gossip magazines with immodest covers. As you stated above, at this rate, media will push the limits to the end, that’s why I asked about porn in the grocery stores. If indeed sales are tied to taking sexuality ‘further’ then what’s stopping them from putting those things on the covers of today’s magazines already on the grocery shelves? It’ll still be Cosmo but the cover will be much skankier.

As I said, it’s all relative. Take an iPod, for example. I am absolutely amazed at the ability to put thousands of songs on such a tiny device.
Some day my son or daughter will be using the latest music device that makes iPod seem like a childs toy and it will be no big deal to them.

Those are toys. We’re talking about images and words which convey a certain ideal. We already know that corporations would sell cigarettes, alcohol and anything else to a child if people would let it slide. We’re just now making the cigarette companies pay for that. Will it take an increase in rapes, domestic abuse, STD epidemics, drug addictions and the like before we start sueing media executives for producing the shows/materials which led people to live out those role model lives?

I’m not talking about originality in Hollywood, I’m talking about what draws people in. More violence, more skin.

But what is entertaining about violence and gratuitous sex in the first place? That’s the question we Christians are raising. What is entertaining about films like Taxi Driver, 13, Scarface, and any other action or horror film which depicts gang rapes and drug addictions? I just don’t get it. If you don’t want your kids to be exposed to it, why expose yourself???