Banns of Marriage

  • Thread starter Thread starter Antegin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Antegin

Guest
Banns of marriage were recently announce for a man I do not know and a woman I do. The facts are:
    1. I know for a fact this woman has been married twice, the first marriage being a Christian one that has not been dissolved by death or shown to be invalid by annulment.
    1. I know for a fact the woman believes in “open” marriage and that both the marriage and pseudo marriage were plagued by adultery.
    1. I am in possession of this knowledge as a result of my job. HIPPA regulations concerning patient privacy do apply to my job but I am not a doctor/nurse/psychologist such as are exempted by Church decree from revealing such information.
My questions are:
  • Is this any of my business?
  • Should I tell somebody and who?
 
No way! Do not do anything. HIPPA laws are serious, even if you are not a health care professional, they apply to anyone who handles such information. What would you be trying to accomplish by sharing this information? Why? To Whom? This has unethical written all over it. Do NOT go through with it. Let the Doctors and Nurses do their job!:eek:
 
You need to speak to the priest. The purpose of the banns is for **exactly **this situation. To not say anything is to allow them, knowingly, to enter into a possibly sinful state.

A question for the more knowledgeable on the site - if the OP were to divulge this information in the act of confession, would it then make it under seal? Just a thought.

Oh yeah - you absolutely have to say something. This is what the banns are for!!! There may not be any impediment, and everything may have been resolved for them to be validly married, but if you think there might be an impediment, you have to say something. No question about it.

A person’s eternal soul is far more important than confidentiality laws IMHO.

~Liza
 
You need to speak to the priest. The purpose of the banns is for **exactly **this situation. To not say anything is to allow them, knowingly, to enter into a possibly sinful state.

A question for the more knowledgeable on the site - if the OP were to divulge this information in the act of confession, would it then make it under seal? Just a thought.

Oh yeah - you absolutely have to say something. This is what the banns are for!!! There may not be any impediment, and everything may have been resolved for them to be validly married, but if you think there might be an impediment, you have to say something. No question about it.

A person’s eternal soul is far more important than confidentiality laws IMHO.

~Liza
With all due respect, how would this be any different from a priest breaking the confession seal for his own purposes? If a priest divulged information told in a confessional, God forbid, he would be severely punished. The same goes for lawyers, doctors, and other professionals. This is the exact reason why. If everyone felt they had their own reason then such confidentiality has no meaning. A priest can not break a promise nor can a medical professional. The Church will investigate any previous marriage, let them do their job, and you do yours!
 
Oh yes - I did not think that through, you are right, if told in the confessional then the priest can’t do anything with the info. Silly me. :o

I still maintain that IT IS my job to notify the priest if I were to know something about an impending marriage that could cause it to be invalid. That is WHY the banns are there! They are not to be all nice and pretty and oh how sweet someone is getting married. There is a very real and valid purpose, and this is a prime example.

It would be my duty to inform the priest if I knew of such information. This is not gossip or bearing false witness - this is doing what is required of me to ensure that there is no abuse of a sacrament. It is being asked of me by the very virtue of the publishing of the banns.

~Liza
 
Banns of marriage were recently announce for a man I do not know and a woman I do. The facts are:
    1. I know for a fact this woman has been married twice, the first marriage being a Christian one that has not been dissolved by death or shown to be invalid by annulment.
    1. I know for a fact the woman believes in “open” marriage and that both the marriage and pseudo marriage were plagued by adultery.
    1. I am in possession of this knowledge as a result of my job. HIPPA regulations concerning patient privacy do apply to my job but I am not a doctor/nurse/psychologist such as are exempted by Church decree from revealing such information.
My questions are:
  • Is this any of my business?
  • Should I tell somebody and who?
There are a whole lot of questions brought up by this; I would guess that you might be in administration of healthcare and learned of the information as to her attitutdes there.

Assuming that HIPPA applies, and assuming that you have no other independent source of your knowledge that would not lead back directly to your job, you might want to speak with an attorny as to what results might occur should you release the information you have. I would hazard a guess that it might cost you your job, if not other sanctions. I am not familiar with sanctions available, but it would not surprise me if there were criminal sanctions possible. An attorney could advise you.

If you have other, indpendant sources for your information that will not lead back to your job, or if you are willing to risk defending yourself against a claim that it was HIPPA privileged, then who would you tell? The priest? Assuming there is only one priest involved and you can clearly identify who that is, you may find that your information is either ignored, or there is an appearance of it being ignored - for the reason that there may be more to the whole story than you are aware of. There could be a change of heart; there could be much more to prior history than you have access to, or any number of other issues.

You could tell the future husband; and you risk him ignoring you (amazing how many people do that), or continuing with the wedding because they either know or believe there has been a change. And again, all of the above issues apply.

Since you appear to have come by the information through privilege, and contrary to what lizaanne says, you need to approach this as a legal matter first and foremeost. Banns, if I understand them, go back a long ways in history and were directed to the question of whether or not there was an impediment to marriage. Since the parish has seen fit to publish banns, one would think that any prior marriages would have been resolved. It may be that she has lied, or it may be that you do not have enough information upon which to make a decision as to that aspect. Either way, unless you can separate your information from the job as your source, you invite serious trouble.

And as to her attitutde towards open marriage, see my coments about seeing an attorney.
 
*]3) I am in possession of this knowledge as a result of my job. HIPPA regulations concerning patient privacy do apply to my job but I am not a doctor/nurse/psychologist such as are exempted by Church decree from revealing such information.
I’m not a canon lawyer, and I don’t even play one on TV, but I believe that if there is a canon that would exempt doctors, nurses, and psychologists from revealing such information, then in your capacity as an administrator, secretary, lab technician, etc., you would also be exempt. I don’t think the canon was intended to give a comprehensive list. Rather, I think it was intended to establish a principle that those who have professional obligations of confidentiality are exempt.

I could be wrong, though. You should consult a priest who has a degree in canon law.
 
I don’t see how a prior marriage or adultery would fall under HIPAA. Neither of these items are health information, unless you obtained this info in a mental health counseling session.

At any rate, I would speak to the priest if it were me.
 
Oh yes - I did not think that through, you are right, if told in the confessional then the priest can’t do anything with the info. Silly me. :o
No this doesn’t mean he can’t use the information, it means that he can’t reveal who told him. What if you went in the confessional and said, “I heard Mr. X say he was going to blow up the parish school on Monday at 9am?” I bet there would be no children in the school at 9am and there would be police there before school to look for a bomb! If they did find a bomb, the police would naturally ask how he knew… he could not reveal that you told him.
I still maintain that IT IS my job to notify the priest if I were to know something about an impending marriage that could cause it to be invalid. That is WHY the banns are there! They are not to be all nice and pretty and oh how sweet someone is getting married. There is a very real and valid purpose, and this is a prime example.

It would be my duty to inform the priest if I knew of such information. This is not gossip or bearing false witness - this is doing what is required of me to ensure that there is no abuse of a sacrament. It is being asked of me by the very virtue of the publishing of the banns.

~Liza
You could relay the information without giving names to protect yourself from HIPPA regulations. However, I would make it clear that you saw the banns posted on a couple and were concerned that you couldn’t reveal confidential information because of HIPPA regs but, you were concerned that a person who has posted their banns has no intention of living a sacramental marriage… You didn’t reveal a name or a date, you expressed concern without saying this is why they wouldn’t have a sacramental marriage… you should be ok. Now your priest will probably ask what HIPPA regulations are and you can answer his question honestly. If your priest is aware at all, he should be able to narrow down the list and figure it out and maybe counsel the couple on what a sacramental marriage is and if he doesn’t think they are planning to live up to the standards of a sacramental marriage, he can refuse to marry them.
 
He or she who violates Federal Law, even in good conscience, has still violated Federal Law, and good conscience is not a defense.

And they have a really big mower…

I still say you need to get the advice of an attorney before you put your nose into this one.
 
I would say if a priest is involved it was up to him to plumb those depths. You should mind your own business as for sure you know something but you don’t know it all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top