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QuestioningK
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The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
What is habitual faith? How do we know from the Bible that is given in baptism ?
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thistle
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Your profile states n/a under religion. Are you embarrassed to say what religion, if any, you have? We like to know who we are debating with.The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
What is habitual faith? How do we know from the Bible that is given in baptism ?
M
MarcoPolo
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From the Catechism:*Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God’s call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God’s interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.*This is given by the Spirit:What is habitual faith? How do we know from the Bible that is given in baptism ?
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
P
Philthy
Guest
You mean - How do you know it from the Bible alone?How do we know from the Bible that is given in baptism ?
Well that’s easy - you don’t know it from the Bible alone!
You might guess correctly from reading the Bible that it’s true, but you wouldn’t know it with any absolute certainty. Just like you don’t know lots of things from the Bible alone - what books belong in the Bible?; when do we worship; how do we worship; what does “take it to the church” mean; can someone who accepts Christ at one point in time later fall away, lose their faith and, ultimately, their salvation?; is the bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper the “body and blood” of Christ?; etc etc etc
What you need to do is understand Scripture in light of the teaching of the Church - the Apostles and their successor’s who were given, by the laying on of hands in an unbroken succession, the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide the faithful into all Truth.
Does that sound like a bunch of malarkey? I don’t mean this to sound threatening, but if you don’t believe what I presented above, why don’t you attempt to tell me one essential element of the Christian faith that you “know” with absolute certainty from reading the Bible alone and we shall see just how flimsy Biblical certainty alone can be.
P
Pax
Guest
QuestioningK in Christ,The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
What is habitual faith? How do we know from the Bible that is given in baptism ?
Infants benefit from the faith of their parents who raise them in the faith from the day the child is born. I was baptized as an infant and cannot remember having not believed in God or Jesus as my savior.
Scripture points to infant baptism in many places and thus the Church teaches infant baptism and uses the explanation of habitual faith to help our understanding.
P
Pax
Guest
QuestioningK in Christ,
Here are the scriptures that should help reinforce all of this:
Paul says the following in 1 Corintians 10:1-4
“I WANT you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.”
This is an abundantly clear OT prefiguring of baptism and being saved by baptism. The number of Israelites that left Egypt in Exodus is described as follows:
Exodus 12:37-38
And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, and very many cattle, both flocks and herds.
It is obvious from this account and Paul’s reference to passing through the Red Sea and baptism that the sacrament of baptism is for men, women, and children.
—INFANT BAPTISM
Let’s look at Ezekiel first and then the rest of scripture that is appropriate to “infant baptism” without focusing only on scriptures that talk about the requirement of faith in a general sense.
The passage from Ezekiel is spoken to the “House of Israel.” This obviously includes children. Children were brought into the OT family of God through circumcision on the eigth day after birth. Now let’s compare the passage from Ezekiel to Acts 2:37-39.
Ezekiel says:
“I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.”
The Book of Acts says:
“Repent and be and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven.”
Ezekiel says:
“A new heart I will give you,”
The Book of Acts says:
“Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart”
Ezekiel says:
“I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.”
The Book of Acts says:
“and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Ezekiel says:
“Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.”
The Book of Acts says:
“For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
The two passages are mirror images of one another and it is clear that the OT family of God included children and infants. Likewise, the Book of Acts even says that “the promise is to you and to your children.”
We also see infant baptism reinforced elsewhere in scripture in a number of powerful ways. The last verse in the passage from Ezekiel speaks to the House of Israel saying, “you shall be my people, and I will be your God.” This obviously includes children and infants. In the New Covenant we hear these same words. The following examples should be helpful:
Romans 9:25
Those who were not my people I will call my people…
2 Cor 6:6
I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 8:10
I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant for the old is only a shadow of the good things to come. Obviously, infants must be included in the New Covenant or it is inferior to the old covenant. Paul makes the connection between circumcision for the Old Covenant and baptism in the New Covenant when he says the following:
Col 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (i.e.,baptism replaces circumcision and children were circumcised as infants)
Jesus also makes it clear that little children are not to be with held. Check out the following verses:
Matthew 19:13-14
Then little children were being brought to him in order that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples spoke sternly to those who brought them; but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them;”
Luke 18:15-16
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they sternly ordered them not to do it. But Jesus called for them and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them;
God touches us through baptism and we receive the remission of original sin and we receive the Holy Spirit. Even an infant can receive these things. as is evidenced by the following:
Luke 1 :15
The angel Gabriel says that John the Baptist , “even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
“I WANT you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.”
This is an abundantly clear OT prefiguring of baptism and being saved by baptism. The number of Israelites that left Egypt in Exodus is described as follows:
Exodus 12:37-38
And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, and very many cattle, both flocks and herds.
It is obvious from this account and Paul’s reference to passing through the Red Sea and baptism that the sacrament of baptism is for men, women, children, and infants. Moreover, in the New Testament, scripture describes entire households that were baptized such as those of the Roman jailer, Lydia, and Stephanes.
I hope this helps.
Here are the scriptures that should help reinforce all of this:
Paul says the following in 1 Corintians 10:1-4
“I WANT you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.”
This is an abundantly clear OT prefiguring of baptism and being saved by baptism. The number of Israelites that left Egypt in Exodus is described as follows:
Exodus 12:37-38
And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, and very many cattle, both flocks and herds.
It is obvious from this account and Paul’s reference to passing through the Red Sea and baptism that the sacrament of baptism is for men, women, and children.
—INFANT BAPTISM
Let’s look at Ezekiel first and then the rest of scripture that is appropriate to “infant baptism” without focusing only on scriptures that talk about the requirement of faith in a general sense.
The passage from Ezekiel is spoken to the “House of Israel.” This obviously includes children. Children were brought into the OT family of God through circumcision on the eigth day after birth. Now let’s compare the passage from Ezekiel to Acts 2:37-39.
Ezekiel says:
“I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.”
The Book of Acts says:
“Repent and be and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven.”
Ezekiel says:
“A new heart I will give you,”
The Book of Acts says:
“Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart”
Ezekiel says:
“I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.”
The Book of Acts says:
“and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Ezekiel says:
“Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.”
The Book of Acts says:
“For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
The two passages are mirror images of one another and it is clear that the OT family of God included children and infants. Likewise, the Book of Acts even says that “the promise is to you and to your children.”
We also see infant baptism reinforced elsewhere in scripture in a number of powerful ways. The last verse in the passage from Ezekiel speaks to the House of Israel saying, “you shall be my people, and I will be your God.” This obviously includes children and infants. In the New Covenant we hear these same words. The following examples should be helpful:
Romans 9:25
Those who were not my people I will call my people…
2 Cor 6:6
I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 8:10
I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant for the old is only a shadow of the good things to come. Obviously, infants must be included in the New Covenant or it is inferior to the old covenant. Paul makes the connection between circumcision for the Old Covenant and baptism in the New Covenant when he says the following:
Col 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (i.e.,baptism replaces circumcision and children were circumcised as infants)
Jesus also makes it clear that little children are not to be with held. Check out the following verses:
Matthew 19:13-14
Then little children were being brought to him in order that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples spoke sternly to those who brought them; but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them;”
Luke 18:15-16
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they sternly ordered them not to do it. But Jesus called for them and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them;
God touches us through baptism and we receive the remission of original sin and we receive the Holy Spirit. Even an infant can receive these things. as is evidenced by the following:
Luke 1 :15
The angel Gabriel says that John the Baptist , “even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
“I WANT you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.”
This is an abundantly clear OT prefiguring of baptism and being saved by baptism. The number of Israelites that left Egypt in Exodus is described as follows:
Exodus 12:37-38
And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, and very many cattle, both flocks and herds.
It is obvious from this account and Paul’s reference to passing through the Red Sea and baptism that the sacrament of baptism is for men, women, children, and infants. Moreover, in the New Testament, scripture describes entire households that were baptized such as those of the Roman jailer, Lydia, and Stephanes.
I hope this helps.
B
broski234
Guest
Look at the verses where they baptized whole households. Also read the following articles. I think they will help. Off the top of my head I can’t think of the verses above on household baptisms but if you need help, I will get them for you.The Catholic Encyclopedia says:
What is habitual faith? How do we know from the Bible that is given in baptism ?
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0201frs.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0012sbs.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0607fea3sb1.asp
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