Baptism Annulled

[Barry_Roffman]

Thanks for posting the article on The Search for the Ark of the Covenant. However, in posting the article written by Dvora Waysman, you edited out the mention of how Archbishop McCarthy annulled the baptism of my son, Robert Altair Roffman, in 1984. While it is significant that Robert is now an Orthodox rabbi serving as a chaplain in the U.S. Air Force, the annulment of his baptism marked a significant turn for the positive in Jewish-Catholic relations. More, it established that the Catholic Church will not allow insincere Catholics to use baptism as an act of revenge when interfaith marriages break up. I would be happy to forward a scan of the annulment document. Rather than hide this historic incident, the Church would do well to ensure that its act is understood by Church members.
Barry S Roffman

 

[dumspirospero]

What is your purpose here? Why do you post this? Do you come here just to cause problems? Regardless of the piece of paper, or “document” you possess, your son was still baptized by The Holy Spirit…no piece of paper from any Bishop will change that.
Barry Roffman:

Thanks for posting the article on The Search for the Ark of the Covenant. However, in posting the article written by Dvora Waysman, you edited out the mention of how Archbishop McCarthy annulled the baptism of my son, Robert Altair Roffman, in 1984. While it is significant that Robert is now an Orthodox rabbi serving as a chaplain in the U.S. Air Force, the annulment of his baptism marked a significant turn for the positive in Jewish-Catholic relations. More, it established that the Catholic Church will not allow insincere Catholics to use baptism as an act of revenge when interfaith marriages break up. I would be happy to forward a scan of the annulment document. Rather than hide this historic incident, the Church would do well to ensure that its act is understood by Church members.
Barry S Roffman

 

[Tonks40]

You can get the article here:

The Race For The Lost Ark

I do see the mention of the baptism annullment - based on the fact that the baptism was done without the father’s consent, which would deem it invalid.

Question to the OP: What were the actual circumstances that lead to this action?

Just curious.

 

[dumspirospero]

Oh ok…I was thinking of a valid Baptism…because I don’t think there is anyway for a valid Baptism to be nullified.

Tonks40:

You can get the article here:

The Race For The Lost Ark

I do see the mention of the baptism annullment - based on the fact that the baptism was done without the father’s consent, which would deem it invalid.

Question to the OP: What were the actual circumstances that lead to this action?

Just curious.

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

dumspirospero:

Oh ok…I was thinking of a valid Baptism…because I don’t think there is anyway for a valid Baptism to be nullified.

Correct.
CCC 1121:

The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer, in addition to grace, a sacramental *character *or “seal” by which the Christian shares in Christ’s priesthood and is made a member of the Church according to different states and functions. This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible, it remains for ever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church. Therefore these sacraments can never be repeated.

Emphasis mine.

 

[puzzleannie]

the word annulment is inaccurate, as when applied to marriage, the term is decree of nullity, that is, an official statement by the proper authority (the bishop) after investigation of all the circumstances existing at the time the sacrament was conferred, the decree that the necessary conditions for a valid sacrament did not exist, therefore no valid sacramental action occurred. The bishop did not “overturn” a valid baptism, he investigated, found that a necessary condition (consent of the parent) was not met, therefore no baptism happened.

 

[Catholic2003]

puzzleannie:

The bishop did not “overturn” a valid baptism, he investigated, found that a necessary condition (consent of the parent) was not met, therefore no baptism happened.

Consent of the parent is not a necessary condition of a valid baptism. Even the rules for a licit (lawful) baptism only require one parent:

Canon 868 §1 For an infant to be baptised lawfully it is required:

1° that the parents, or at least one of them, or the person who lawfully holds their place, give their consent;

2° that there be a well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the catholic religion. If such hope is truly lacking, the baptism is, in accordance with the provisions of particular law, to be deferred and the parents advised of the reason for this.

§2 An infant of catholic parents, indeed even of non-catholic parents, may in danger of death be baptised even if the parents are opposed to it.

 

[Brendan]

Edward A. McCarthy, Archbishop of Miami, on the grounds that it was carried out without the father`s knowledge or consent when the boy was seven and considered himself to be Jewish.

The key part here would be the boy’s age, 7. The boy was past the Canonically defined age of Reason and therefore consents, or does not consent on their own will.

One generally cannot validly Baptize a person against their own Will. The a seven year old, unlike a younger child, does not have a defined Will , so others speak on their behalf.

But someone over the age of Reason speaks for themselves; and, the boy if the boy objected at the time, they were not validly Baptized.

 

[Barry_Roffman]

JUST CURIOUS ASKED:
Question to the OP: What were the actual circumstances that lead to this action?
RESPONSE:
The term ANNULLED was only used by the press (NY Times, Miami Herald, San Francisco Chronicle, etc).
Here is the actual text of Archbishop McCarthy’s Letter (scan available upon request):

Office of the Archbishop September 13, 1984

Mr. Barry S. Roffman
(removed personal information)

Dear Mr. Roffman:

It has been brought to my attention that Robert ******* was baptized at Epiphany Church on March 7, 1984, at the request of his mother, Maria ********. The father, Barry Steven Roffman, was not consulted prior to the fact and is now objecting.

Our investigation reveals that the parents were divorced on June 20, 1981, and joint custody was awarded. Prior to and during the marriage, the mother had not been a practicing Catholic and the father was Jewish. The child was circumcised in accordance with Jewish ritual and the mother had agreed that he would be raised as a Jew. After the divorce, the father began taking the child regularly to synagogue and Hebrew school.

When the mother presented the child for Baptism, he was seven years of age. The priest was not aware that the mother had told the child that Baptism would place a shield over him so that he would not go to hell. Nor was he aware that the child had not been advised that Baptism was a sacrament of initiation into the Catholic Church, that he had not been instructed in the truths of the faith, and that prior to the Baptism and to this day, the child considered himself to be Jewish.

Had Father Smith been aware of the facts, the Baptism would not have been conducted. Indeed, being aware of the facts and having consulted with experts in Theology and Canon Law, it is my judgment that Robert Altair Roffman is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. The baptism was not valid and records of the Church should be corrected to reflect that.

Very truly yours,

Edward A. McCarthy
Archbishop of Miami

Note: Although the world’s press carried stories about the baptism anullment for an uniformed Jewish boy (then 7), Robert was not formally admitted into the Orthodox Jewish religion until a second token circumcision and ritual immersion that occurred at the age of 11, 4 years after the above letter.

 

[Adonis33]

Barry Roffman:

JUST CURIOUS ASKED:
Question to the OP: What were the actual circumstances that lead to this action?
RESPONSE:
The term ANNULLED was only used by the press (NY Times, Miami Herald, San Francisco Chronicle, etc).
Here is the actual text of Archbishop McCarthy’s Letter (scan available upon request):

Office of the Archbishop September 13, 1984

Mr. Barry S. Roffman

Dear Mr. Roffman:

It has been brought to my attention that Robert was baptized at Epiphany Church on March 7, 1984, at the request of his mother, Maria . The father, Barry Steven Roffman, was not consulted prior to the fact and is now objecting.

Our investigation reveals that the parents were divorced on June 20, 1981, and joint custody was awarded. Prior to and during the marriage, the mother had not been a practicing Catholic and the father was Jewish. The child was circumcised in accordance with Jewish ritual and the mother had agreed that he would be raised as a Jew. After the divorce, the father began taking the child regularly to synagogue and Hebrew school.

When the mother presented the child for Baptism, he was seven years of age. The priest was not aware that the mother had told the child that Baptism would place a shield over him so that he would not go to hell. Nor was he aware that the child had not been advised that Baptism was a sacrament of initiation into the Catholic Church, that he had not been instructed in the truths of the faith, and that prior to the Baptism and to this day, the child considered himself to be Jewish.

Had Father Smith been aware of the facts, the Baptism would not have been conducted. Indeed, being aware of the facts and having consulted with experts in Theology and Canon Law, it is my judgment that Robert Altair Roffman is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. The baptism was not valid and records of the Church should be corrected to reflect that.

Very truly yours,

Edward A. McCarthy
Archbishop of Miami

Note: Although the world’s press carried stories about the baptism anullment for an uniformed Jewish boy (then 7), Robert was not formally admitted into the Orthodox Jewish religion until a second token circumcision and ritual immersion that occurred at the age of 11, 4 years after the above letter.

Basically - what the Archbishop is saying - is that Robert was not baptized.

This is a strange story.

 

[otm]

dumspirospero:

Oh ok…I was thinking of a valid Baptism…because I don’t think there is anyway for a valid Baptism to be nullified.

You are right, a valid baptism cannot be annuled. An annulment would be a decision that it was not valid…

 

[Della]

I am still puzzled, Barry. Are you trying to tell us that the bishop should not have sent a letter in which he declared that your son is not considered a member of the Roman Catholic faith? Isn’t that what you wanted? To have the baptism recognized as invalid? Or am I not understanding you?

And why should your son have to go through circumcision again? I would think that would be much worse than merely having a bit of water harmlessly poured over his head which apparently meant nothing to him and was not a valid baptism for the reasons the bishop described. Once again, I just want to understand what it is you are objecting to here.

 

[Liberian]

Barry,

Welcome to the Catholic Answers Forums! You sound like a bit of a public figure, but I’ll not hold that against you . I trust others here won’t either.

Did you find the Ark?

• Liberian

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

The boy was of the age of reason and considered himself Jewish. Because he had reached that age, and had no idea what was going on, AND because the parents had joint custody and the father was not consulted, there was no baptism.

This does not mean every baptism has to have the consent of both parents, particuarly if one parent is an absent parent;one parent is a managing conservator or custodial parent, to the other parent’s possessory conservatorship or non-custodial status; or in the case of an unwed mother. Clearly, Mr. Roffman was not a by-stander parent.

It seems the Orthodox community wasn’t exactly thrilled with the whole thing.

Now, what this has to do with the price of tea in China or Catholic-Jewish relations is beyond me, excepting as stated in the facts of the rectification. LT Roffman is all grown up and obviously not Catholic. He is, however, a puddle pirate, being in Uncle Sam’s Yacht Club and not in the “real” Navy (only sailors from both services would understand).

 

[Barry_Roffman]

TO: OutinChgoburbs
YOU WROTE:
It seems the Orthodox community wasn’t exactly thrilled with the whole thing.
RESPONSE:
Orthodox Judaism holds that it is not necessary to be Jewish in order to obtain salvation, and that only 7 of the 613 commandments in the Torah (first 5 books of your Bible) pertain to non-Jews. Whatever you call the Church’s ruling, an annulment or invalidation, the situation was as new to Judaism as it was to Catholicism. HOWEVER, the letter did not render the boy Jewish. Only strict observance of halachic (Jewish) Law could bring about such recognition, and it was not forthcoming until I and my wife, a convert to Conservative Judaism, both agreed to become Orthodox and keep the full Mosaic Law. Only then was Robert admitted into the ranks of fully accepted, legitimate Jews. This would not have been necessary had I been the mother (Jewish) and had the father been a gentile Catholic. It is the mother who, barring a conversion, determines the religion of the child.
YOU WROTE:
LT Roffman is all grown up and obviously not Catholic. He is, however, a puddle pirate, being in Uncle Sam’s Yacht Club and not in the “real” Navy (only sailors from both services would understand).
RESPONSE:
I served 10 years in the U.S. Navy, got out for 5 years, joined the Coast Guard in 1983, retired in 1995, and was recalled to active duty in 2003. My current job? Writing war plans for the Navy (Maritime Homeland Defense/Security and Combating Terrorism Operations Plans). I guess the Coast Guard needs someone who can write down to the Navy level as well as write up to Coast Guard Standards.

TO DELLA:
YOU WROTE:
I am still puzzled, Barry. Are you trying to tell us that the bishop should not have sent a letter in which he declared that your son is not considered a member of the Roman Catholic faith?
RESPONSE:
No, that’s the best thing that ever happened to Catholic-Jewish relations; however it does not guarantee that my son will be a good Jew even if he is an ordained rabbi. We are all tested in life each time we make a moral decision or judgment.
DELLA ALSO ASKED:
And why should your son have to go through circumcision again?
RESPONSE:
It’s not my job to make Jewish Law. As a Jew, my task is to follow and teach the law as interpreted by the Orthodox rabbis. However, with respect to my Bible Code research, I MAY have something to add to traditional rabbinical understanding of some key issues IF the apparently encoded maps that I have uncovered in Torah lead to the Ark of the Covenant. However, while the maps in ARK CODE have been determined to be statistically significant by leading mathematicians, much work needs to be done before I can assert that I do indeed have something to contribute here.
DELLA WROTE:
I just want to understand what it is you are objecting to here.
AND DUMSPIROSPERO WROTE
What is your purpose here? Why do you post this? Do you come here just to cause problems?
RESPONSE:
In 1858, a knock sounded at the door of a Jewish family in Bologna, Italy, then part of the Papal States. The dumbfounded couple, Momolo and Marianna Mortara, found the police awaiting them. Their fright turned to panic when the police chief announced that he has been ordered to take away their six-year-old son, Edgardo. “You have been betrayed,” he told them. Someone (their nurse), he said, has secretly baptized the boy, and now that the boy is Christian, he cannot remain with Jewish parents.
Despite their pleas to the Inquisitor of Bologna, who had heard the rumor of the Jewish boy’s baptism and ordered the child seized, little Edgardo was removed by the police and sent to a Church institution in Rome dedicated to the conversion of the Jews. The parents, still believing that the taking of their son was a mistake–for they were sure Edgardo had never been baptized put their faith in Pope Pius IX. The Pope, however, stood firm in the face of a storm of international protest demanding that he send Edgardo back to his parents. Indeed, he began to see Edgardo regularly and to regard Edgardo as his own son. The Mortara family never saw their child again. He died in 1940 as an Augustinian monk.

In the U.S. military, officers are trained to be leaders.  Likewise, I believe that it is my duty as an educated Jew to take the lead where appropriate.  In the case of my son, who was baptized against his will and mine, I felt it necessary to ensure that there would be no more Edgardo Mortaras anymore.  Fortunately, I was blessed to live in age with saints like Pope John Paul II and Archbishop McCarthy.  Justice was done, but those who do not know the past or who forget the past are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past.  Hopefully, this forum will help ensure that no such injustice ever occurs again.

Yours truly,
Barry S. Roffman

 

[Chatter163]

It is also interesting to note that this thread appeared, not only many years after the incident, but also less than two months after Archbishop McCarthy’s passing.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

See? I thought Barry WAS the son in question!!! Must be writing all those post-9/11 plans.

No, I don’t get why the post is here, either, but hey, here it is. If an injustice was done, I’m glad it was righted.

 

[Barry_Roffman]

TO: OutinChgoburbs
YOU WROTE:
I thought Barry WAS the son in question!!! Must be writing all those post-9/11 plans.

RESPONSE:
I’m not sure why there was confusion. The letter from Archbishop McCathry clearly stated, “Robert was baptized at Epiphany Church on March 7, 1984, at the request of his mother, Maria. The father, Barry Steven Roffman, was not consulted prior to the fact and is now objecting.”

Hopefully, my writing remains clear, even if I did serve on 5 Navy aircraft carriers, 4 destroyers, LCC Mount Whitney, and one minesweeper before “converting” to the U.S. Coast Guard.

Thanks for your backing of the just handling of the case by the Church. I left out my appreciation for Monsignor Brian Walsh. His primary concern was that my son remain religious, and that did not require acceptance of his (Catholic) religion.

TO: Liberian
YOU ASKED:
Did you find the Ark?
ANSWER:
After 8 years spent studying the Bible Code, I found 13 maps that were apparently encoded that all pointed to 31 degrees 9 minutes North, 33 degrees 4 minutes East as the resting place of the Ark. This places it buried under the sands of El Zuqba, Egypt in an area that is under their military supervision and which is normally off limits to foreigners. On May 23 this year, with the help of an Egyptian official, I was finally given access to the site for 15 minutes only. This allowed for a few photographs, but I was not permitted to use a metal detector that I had in hand, nor did I dig or even to use ground penetrating radar. Now I have both backing from a major U.S. film crew, and an offer of help from an Egyptian general. With these two aces up my sleeve, I hope to return to Egypt within the next 6 months for a further examination of the site. However, getting permission to dig in Egypt is not easy. The project may have to wait until I retire (again) from the U.S. military in a year or two. At that time I may move to Israel to be closer to the site in order to facilitate discussions with Egyptian bureaucrats who are the key to a successful investigation.
Warmest regards to all my Catholic friends,
Barry S. Roffman

 

[Liberian]

TO: Liberian
YOU ASKED:
Did you find the Ark?
ANSWER:
After 8 years spent studying the Bible Code, … I was finally given access to the site for 15 minutes only. This allowed for a few photographs, but I was not permitted to use a metal detector that I had in hand, nor did I dig or even to use ground penetrating radar.

FIFTEEN MINUTES!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I will confess to being somewhat skeptical (although openminded) about the whole exercise, but my heart goes out to you. It must have been … well, “frustrating” does not even begin to describe it. I wish you all the best in your continued efforts.

• Liberian

 

[Barry_Roffman]

TO LIBERIAN:
YOU WROTE: FIFTEEN MINUTES!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I will confess to being somewhat skeptical (although open-minded) about the whole exercise, but my heart goes out to you. It must have been … well, “frustrating” does not even begin to describe it. I wish you all the best in your continued efforts.
RESPONSE:
Thanks, but here is the rest of the story. My primary purpose for visiting the Middle East was to scout of possible homes to buy in Israel for my retirement when I expect to accomplish much more by living “in the neighborhood.” I only planned for one day in Egypt, and did not hope to do much more than photograph the area that I had only seen from orbital photos before. At the border I was denied access to the site, but with some “financial incentive” that I provided to the right source, I was taken to it for the brief visit. I had been writing to and calling the Egyptian Embassy prior to this visit for 10 months requesting access and was denied permission by them too, but on one call they said that I could enter with a tourist visa rather than a business visa, and then “see what would happen.” When I returned to the U.S., I got another call from their embassy again denying me access to the site. They thought I was going over in July rather than in May. I told them that I had already been there to photograph the site, but not to dig.

Getting archeology done in Egypt really seems to come down to two matters: who backs you, and who your friends are. Developing the right kind of backing and friends is what I meant when I earlier wrote that there was still work to be done (and I did develop some important friendships during that day in Egypt). This does not worry me. In the end when all is said and done, in this kind of search, we are dealing with what God wants done. If it is His will that I find the Ark, I will find it. If it isn’t, I may accomplish nothing more than to show that Bible Code matrices are not useful sources of information. While the former outcome is certainly more exciting, the latter is still of value to scientists and religious people. The ultimate goal of my search is truth, and I will go any lengths to obtain it.
Warmest regards,
Barry S. Roffman