Baptism as a requirement for salvation; Please help

[dandingo]

I’m in the midst of an argument on another thread with a fundamentalist about Baptism. I want to find out, do we, as Catholics, believe that baptism is required for salvation?

Here is the gist of the argument:

**Him:

"Not necessarily. I am defending anyone who calls themselves Catholic, and believes the only way to God is through Christ. Any sect of Christianity (Catholics churches included) who teaches that there are extra requirements of salvation, or there are other ways to be saved, are the ones who are not Christians

I do not care if you call yourself a “hamburgertheist.” If you believe and teach belief in Christ and the acceptance of his gift of salvation as the only way to God, then you are a Christian. I believe that if a church teaches this, they will line up, more or less, with the rest of true biblical theology. (I do not concern myself too much with minor doctrines)"**

*Me:

"That is ABSOLUTELY not true. The Catholic church believes that the only way to God is by God’s Grace through faith. There are no “extra” requirements for salvation. Most of what the church teaches and practices is that certain things, such as the sacraments, are things that bring you closer to God and Christ. The rest is oral tradition, which even Jesus practiced, and which dates back to Him.

Also, Jesus is the only way to God. In fact, he said it …

“Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

John 14:6"*
**
Him:

"Context is key my friend. Nicodemus is asking Jesus how to be born again, because certainly you can not re-enter the womb. Jesus then says, “unless you are born of water (flesh, natural birth) and the spirit (Salvation)”, He then proceeds to further the fact that “of water” means of the flesh (natural birth) by re-iterating “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” In other words “you were born into the flesh, to be re-born you must be re-born in the spirit.”

Not to mention the fact that Baptism by water is supposed to happen after salvation. If Jesus had meant “Of water” to means physical water baptism, the process would be backwards, and He should have said “unless you are born of the spirit, and of water.”

Further trouble ensues from mandatory physical baptism when Jesus said to the dying thief, “truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise”. The thief was not physically baptized before he died, so what’s up there?

You say a work (physical baptism) is necessary, yet you then state that at the end of the day it is God’s grace… ? What is it? is it God’s grace, or God’s grace+baptism?

You also say you fully understood my post, yet you said what I said was “totally not true”… when what I said was (according to your bolded red statement) perfectly true… "**

*Me:

"I didn’t say that baptism is necessary, Jesus did. He said you must be ‘born again’. You must wipe original sin from you, since we are ALL born with it.

How could the man on the cross know of baptism if he only met Christ on the cross? Do you think, had he known of baptism, an amazing gift of God, that he would have passed it up? Just like the sin of omission. If you know of something great and don’t do it, do you think God appreciates that?

Also, you must be a fundamentalist. If it only means a ‘natural’ birth, does Jesus mean to actually eat his flesh and drink his blood, especially since he repeats it 3 times? Have you ever sinned with your right hand? If you didn’t cut it off, why not? "*

I’m still new to Apologetics but absolutely love it. I would rather be wrong and find the truth than right and give the wrong info. Please help me

 

[starsmurf]

I’ll try to post a full reply later, but on the baptism front, the Church teaches that there are three different “ways” of being baptised: the normal, sacramental baptism most of us receive, the baptism of blood (dying as a martyr before baptism had taken place) and the baptism of desire. That doesn’t mean “wanted to be baptised but died before it could take place”, it means that those who lived good lives and followed the promptings of their conscience will be baptised in God’s eyes. This allows those who never heard about Christ, or were unable to convert because they lived somewhere it was impossible, to enter Heaven. I was also assured, by a very traditional, conservative nun, that my unbaptised agnostic father will enter Heaven, because he has lived a good life, dedicated to helping others. It was this last type of baptism that the repentant thief received.

I will do my best to help with the rest, as a former Protestant, who thanks God every day that she was led to the Catholic Church!

 

[Joe_5859]

I would look at the section of the Catechism that talks about the necessity of Baptism – CCC 1257-1261:

VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. [60] He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. [61] Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. [62] The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” [63] Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” [64] allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

[60] Cf. Jn 3:5.
[61] Cf. Mt 28:19-20; cf. Council of Trent (1547) DS 1618; LG 14; AG 5.
[62] Cf. Mk 16:16.
[63] GS 22 § 5; cf. LG 16; AG 7.
[64] Mk 10 14; cf. 1 Tim 2:4.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think this excerpt is the whole thing in a nutshell: "God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments."

The only way we know and can have assurance of that salvation is through the means that Christ Himself explicitly gave to us. But that doesn’t mean that God cannot work outside of that if He wants to.

I think this is the best way to look at it. Some people want to say that anyone can be saved through lots of different means. But then it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to evangelize. Others want to say that one must be a card-carrying member of the Catholic Church or else eternal hellfire awaits you (sorry unbaptized babies). But this can leave people with the impression of an unloving, arbitrary God. The Church’s view avoids both of these extremes.

 

[dandingo]

Thank you so much for the responses. That is exactly what I was looking for. I absolutely don’t believe that Catholicism is the only way to be saved. I just bothers me IMMENSELY when people start slandering the Catholic church without knowing anything about it. I love this forum.

 

[Lancer]

I’ll try to post a full reply later, but on the baptism front, the Church teaches that there are three different “ways” of being baptised: the normal, sacramental baptism most of us receive, the baptism of blood (dying as a martyr before baptism had taken place) and the baptism of desire. That doesn’t mean “wanted to be baptised but died before it could take place”, it means that those who lived good lives and followed the promptings of their conscience will be baptised in God’s eyes. This allows those who never heard about Christ, or were unable to convert because they lived somewhere it was impossible, to enter Heaven. I was also assured, by a very traditional, conservative nun, that my unbaptised agnostic father will enter Heaven, because he has lived a good life, dedicated to helping others. It was this last type of baptism that the repentant thief received.

I will do my best to help with the rest, as a former Protestant, who thanks God every day that she was led to the Catholic Church!

I think you are close but not quite precise in your answer…please see below

VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

1257 The **Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.**60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 ]Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude

; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.”** God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments**.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

Lastly, the dear Nun can’t know your father’s life-long deep soulful conscious beliefs or reasons for disbelief…only God can know and judge the depths of man’s soul…which is why we pray continually for the dead…and entrust their souls…in deep and profound faith and hope… into the Sacred Heart of Precious Blood and Divine Mercy.

In truth, even with all the sacraments of initiation and a long life in the Church…at death and judgment…we all have only a three-word defense for our life on earth…and…our hope for eternal happiness and peace in heaven…LORD HAVE MERCY!

(* Man is at his greatest when he is on his knees begging the Lord for mercy.*…Blessed Pope John XIII )

Pax Christi

 

[starsmurf]

I think you are close but not quite precise in your answer…please see below

Lastly, the dear Nun can’t know your father’s life-long deep soulful conscious beliefs or reasons for disbelief…only God can know and judge the depths of man’s soul…which is why we pray continually for the dead…and entrust their souls…in deep and profound faith and hope… into the Sacred Heart of Precious Blood and Divine Mercy.

In truth, even with all the sacraments of initiation and a long life in the Church…at death and judgment…we all have only a three-word defense for our life on earth…and…our hope for eternal happiness and peace in heaven…LORD HAVE MERCY!

(* Man is at his greatest when he is on his knees begging the Lord for mercy*…Blessed Pope John XIII )

Pax Christi

With respect, the “dear nun” knows my father, and please see later for her knowing his soul. I told her that my father had never expressed any desire to be baptised when she told me that he would be let into heaven under baptism of desire. She told me, and this woman is as faithful to the Church as they get, that living a good life and following his conscience would allow my father, when he faced God, to acknowledge Him as Lord, and hence baptism of desire. As you yourself quoted:

Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

I am immensely reassured by this and I trust this nun’s spiritual judgement, as she seems to have the gift of reading souls. I believe her when she tells me these things, as she has known things about me and my soul that I cannot account for in any earthly way.

I appreciate that you are merely trying to say that none of us can depend on the fact that we have been baptised and lived a life in accordance with the Church’s teachings to get into Heaven, God will still need to have mercy on us, as we have all sinned. It is simply that like many converts, the statements surrounding baptism of desire give me great comfort as to my family’s salvation and the chances of me seeing them again. We must be careful not to give people the impression that loved ones who have not been baptised or expressed a wish to be will not enter Heaven.

 

[TimothyH]

**
Him:

"Context is key my friend. Nicodemus is asking Jesus how to be born again, because certainly you can not re-enter the womb. Jesus then says, “unless you are born of water (flesh, natural birth) and the spirit (Salvation)”, He then proceeds to further the fact that “of water” means of the flesh (natural birth) by re-iterating “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” In other words “you were born into the flesh, to be re-born you must be re-born in the spirit.”**

Truly one of the most absurd beliefs I have ever encountered, that “Born of water” means natural birth - amniotic fluid or placental fluid - as a requirement to enter heaven.

Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of amniotic fluid and Spirit.

I wonder if there was an Aramaic or ancient Greek word for amniotic fluid?

I will sprinkle clean amniotic fluids over you to make you clean; from all your impurities and from all your idols I will cleanse you. (Ezekiel 36:25)



As they traveled along the road they came to some amniotic fluid, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is some birth fluid left over from when some pregnant woman’s water broke. What is to prevent my being baptized?” Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the amniotic fluid, and he baptized him. When they came out of the amniotic fluids, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but continued on his way rejoicing.(Acts 8:36-39)



-Tim-

 

[Castello]

Thank you so much for the responses. That is exactly what I was looking for. I absolutely don’t believe that Catholicism is the only way to be saved. I just bothers me IMMENSELY when people start slandering the Catholic church without knowing anything about it. I love this forum.

You might want to study the Catechism on that topic as well.

Honestly, if one does not believe Catholicism to be 100% true, then, why be Catholic

 

[fisherman_carl]

I’m in the midst of an argument on another thread with a fundamentalist about Baptism. I want to find out, do we, as Catholics, believe that baptism is required for salvation?

The sacrament of Baptism is normally required for salvation, yes. This is the only way the Church has been given to initiate someone into Christ. The exceptions to regular baptism are ‘Baptism of blood’ and ‘Baptism by desire’. These are extraordinary circumstances. Baptism by blood - martyrdom for Christ. Baptism by desire - someone who has the desire, explicit or implicit, to be baptized but dies prior to receiving the sacrament of Baptism.
catholic.com/tracts/the-necessity-of-baptism

Any other way to salvation besides baptism is extraordinary and unknown. It depends on the mercy of God.

In Catholic theology salvation is something God is doing in us by grace. It starts at baptism and in Christ we are declared righteous. Then God makes what he declares come to pass. He transforms us into the image of Christ. Our mission is to participate in the life and suffering of Christ, becoming mature sons and daughters of God.

The bible says:
“This [the flood] prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”
(1 Pt 3:21)

In baptism, all (original and actual) sin is washed away.

“Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.”
(Acts 22:16)

Baptism signifies on the body what it accomplishes in the soul–the washing away of human sin. The visible water is coupled with the audible word of the minister, who calls upon the saving name of Christ (Acts 2:38, Eph 5:26).

“but when the loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit…”
Titus 3:4-5

In Titus, Paul links the idea of regeneration with a baptismal washing that cleanses us of sin and gives us a new birth into the family of God (Jn 3:5, Eph 5:26). He is saying that the washing of the body is an efficacious sign of the invisible work of the Spirit, whose action in the sacrament renews and renovates our souls with divine grace (Acts 2:38; 1 Pet 3:23) (CCC 1215, 1265).

Salvation springs entirely from the mercy and grace of God. It is not an achievement on our part or a payment for services. Apart from grace, even our most heroic efforts to please God fall short of his glory and his plan for our lives (Rom 3:23). Both the faith to believe in Christ and grace to live the gospel are undeserved gifts (Eph 2:8, Phil 1:29). Only after God has bestowed these gifts can we begin to please our heavenly Father through a lifetime of service and good works (Tit 2:14; Eph 2:10, Heb 11:6) (CCC 1996-2002).

Paul says, there is only one baptism (Eph 4:4-5). We are marked as adopted Children of God. However, if after baptism, we go off and sin and lead a sinful life but then turn back to him later, we can, like the prodigal son, still experience that forgiveness, love and spiritual awakening from the Father.

“Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: “Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word.””
(CCC 1213)

 

[thistle]

Thank you so much for the responses. That is exactly what I was looking for.** I absolutely don’t believe that Catholicism is the only way to be saved.** I just bothers me IMMENSELY when people start slandering the Catholic church without knowing anything about it. I love this forum.

What do you mean by that statement? There is no salvation ouside the Catholic Church.

Church teachings:

• Baptism is necessary for salvation (but does not ensure it as you must die in a state of grace).
• There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

So how can you be baptised and Catholic/deemed to be Catholic? There are 4 ways:

• Sacramental Baptism as a Catholic
• Baptism of Blood (non-Catholic dying for the Catholic Faith)
• Baptism of Desire - Explicit (e.g. a catechumen going through RCIA)
• Baptism of Desire - Implicit (invincible ignorance which means those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ, His Gospel, or His Church but still live a life according to the teachings of Christ in that ignorance)

Outside the above 4 there is no salvation.
Not all Catholics go to Heaven but everyone in Heaven is a Catholic.

With regard to unbaptised babies the Church does not know what happens to them which is why the Church teaches we leave them to God’s mercy.

 

[InDefense]

I’m in the midst of an argument on another thread with a fundamentalist about Baptism. I want to find out, do we, as Catholics, believe that baptism is required for salvation?

Here is the gist of the argument:

**Him:

"Not necessarily. I am defending anyone who calls themselves Catholic, and believes the only way to God is through Christ. Any sect of Christianity (Catholics churches included) who teaches that there are extra requirements of salvation, or there are other ways to be saved, are the ones who are not Christians

I do not care if you call yourself a “hamburgertheist.” If you believe and teach belief in Christ and the acceptance of his gift of salvation as the only way to God, then you are a Christian. I believe that if a church teaches this, they will line up, more or less, with the rest of true biblical theology. (I do not concern myself too much with minor doctrines)"**

*Me:

"That is ABSOLUTELY not true. The Catholic church believes that the only way to God is by God’s Grace through faith. There are no “extra” requirements for salvation. Most of what the church teaches and practices is that certain things, such as the sacraments, are things that bring you closer to God and Christ. The rest is oral tradition, which even Jesus practiced, and which dates back to Him.

Also, Jesus is the only way to God. In fact, he said it …

“Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

John 14:6"*
**
Him:

"Context is key my friend. Nicodemus is asking Jesus how to be born again, because certainly you can not re-enter the womb. Jesus then says, “unless you are born of water (flesh, natural birth) and the spirit (Salvation)”, He then proceeds to further the fact that “of water” means of the flesh (natural birth) by re-iterating “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” In other words “you were born into the flesh, to be re-born you must be re-born in the spirit.”

Not to mention the fact that Baptism by water is supposed to happen after salvation. If Jesus had meant “Of water” to means physical water baptism, the process would be backwards, and He should have said “unless you are born of the spirit, and of water.”

Further trouble ensues from mandatory physical baptism when Jesus said to the dying thief, “truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise”. The thief was not physically baptized before he died, so what’s up there?

You say a work (physical baptism) is necessary, yet you then state that at the end of the day it is God’s grace… ? What is it? is it God’s grace, or God’s grace+baptism?

You also say you fully understood my post, yet you said what I said was “totally not true”… when what I said was (according to your bolded red statement) perfectly true… "**

*Me:

"I didn’t say that baptism is necessary, Jesus did. He said you must be ‘born again’. You must wipe original sin from you, since we are ALL born with it.

How could the man on the cross know of baptism if he only met Christ on the cross? Do you think, had he known of baptism, an amazing gift of God, that he would have passed it up? Just like the sin of omission. If you know of something great and don’t do it, do you think God appreciates that?

Also, you must be a fundamentalist. If it only means a ‘natural’ birth, does Jesus mean to actually eat his flesh and drink his blood, especially since he repeats it 3 times? Have you ever sinned with your right hand? If you didn’t cut it off, why not? "*

I’m still new to Apologetics but absolutely love it. I would rather be wrong and find the truth than right and give the wrong info. Please help me

Mark 16:16 and 1 Peter 3:21

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’m in the midst of an argument on another thread with a fundamentalist about Baptism. I want to find out, do we, as Catholics, believe that baptism is required for salvation?

It is for those who are able to receive it.

I’m going to go through both of your messages and make some notes…

Him:

"Not necessarily. I am defending anyone who calls themselves Catholic, and believes the only way to God is through Christ.

There’s an overarching issue here and that is that your interlocutor has “Christ” confused with “faith in Christ.” Jesus and faith in Jesus are two totally different things. When Jesus says “no one can come to the Father except through Me” He is NOT saying that “no one can come to the Father except through *faith in *Me.” How then could children below the age of reason be saved? How could mentally infirm people be saved? How could invincibly ignorant people be saved, especially since God does will their salvation (1 Tim 2:3-4)?

Keep that in the back of your mind as we go through this.

Any sect of Christianity (Catholics churches included) who teaches that there are extra requirements of salvation, or there are other ways to be saved, are the ones who are not Christians

Since “faith in Christ” is something extra to Christ Himself, then requiring someone to make an act of faith, like a sinner’s prayer, and saying that this action is what causes someone to be saved is putting an extra requirement in front of Christ. Thus your dispute is not over baptism versus grace. It is over baptism versus saying the sinner’s prayer or doing some other action, an action versus an action, not an action versus no action.

If you believe and teach belief in Christ and the acceptance of his gift of salvation as the only way to God, then you are a Christian. I believe that if a church teaches this, they will line up, more or less, with the rest of true biblical theology. (I do not concern myself too much with minor doctrines)"

Ignore all of this. Your interlocutor has no way of knowing what is “true biblical theology” or what doctrines are “minor.”

Me:

"That is ABSOLUTELY not true. The Catholic church believes that the only way to God is by God’s Grace through faith.

Erase the “through faith” part because that would keep babies and the like out of heaven. Faith is a response to grace, it is not a condition of receiving grace.

There are no “extra” requirements for salvation. Most of what the church teaches and practices is that certain things, such as the sacraments, are things that bring you closer to God and Christ.

Baptism is a means of grace. It is something that the Lord has guaranteed will give grace. Like the CCC says, it is the only ordinary means of salvation and so it should be given to everyone in keeping with the Great Commission.

"Context is key my friend. Nicodemus is asking Jesus how to be born again, because certainly you can not re-enter the womb. Jesus then says, “unless you are born of water (flesh, natural birth) and the spirit (Salvation)”, He then proceeds to further the fact that “of water” means of the flesh (natural birth) by re-iterating “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” In other words “you were born into the flesh, to be re-born you must be re-born in the spirit.”
…
If Jesus had meant “Of water” to means physical water baptism, the process would be backwards, and He should have said “unless you are born of the spirit, and of water.”

Here is a detailed analysis of why that is wrong.

Not to mention the fact that Baptism by water is supposed to happen after salvation.

Your interlocutor believes that “faith,” defined by a sinner’s prayer or altar call or some other personal act of faith, is what actually causes salvation and so he would delay baptism until such time as someone is able to make such an act of faith. That is a big mistake and this is why.

Further trouble ensues from mandatory physical baptism when Jesus said to the dying thief, “truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise”. The thief was not physically baptized before he died, so what’s up there?

Christ had not yet instituted baptism, that happens at the Great Commission. Thus the Good Thief did not need to be baptized any more than Enoch or Elijah did.

You say a work (physical baptism) is necessary, yet you then state that at the end of the day it is God’s grace… ? What is it? is it God’s grace, or God’s grace+baptism?

Baptism gives God’s grace. But God can provide grace through other ways such that, for example, abortion victims or the Good Thief can be saved. However there is no other means known to man that is guaranteed to give grace. Your interlocutor’s problem is that he is insisting that everyone profess faith before they are baptized. There is no way he can reconcile that with the existence of those who cannot profess faith (like babies) and God’s express will that they be saved (1 Tim 2:3-4) unless he also believes that there is an “age of reason” which magically causes people to lose the salvation they had as babies and requires them to say the sinner’s prayer OR ELSE.

The concept of an age of reason is not in the Bible. Since your interlocutor believes the Bible is the only source of authority, he or she would have to admit that babies don’t magically lose their salvation when they hit 6, 7 or 8 and there would thus be no need to have a sinner’s prayer or acts of faith or anything at all, which shows the interlocutor is in a self-contradictory position.