Baptism As Baby. Most Sad

[JosemariaDon]

I was invited by a wonderful couple over for Christmas dinner, one of which use to be Roman Catholic and had been influence heavily by a Catholic Hate Group which targets truck drivers.
You may have seen their trailer set up at truck stops.
Any ways she now have a very anti-catholic view point but still loves to read the bible.

That is the background for the thoughts which I am about to mention:

I think that it is very sad that some people are baptist into the church without any knowledge of what they are given baptism for. Jesus was not even given baptism by Saint John until into his adult life. Shouldn’t the Church wait until a person willing accept the Church Doctrines before receiving baptism? This certainly would prevent all of these ex-Catholics from being Ex, and bad mouthing the faith. The first thing out of there mouth is, “I use to be Catholic” and then they precede with all kinds of awful things which they claim about the Church teaching which the Church do not teach and never has.
Oh, by the way, I recommended her to this forum so that she could hopefully learn what she should have been taught by her God-Parents.

 

[Bookcat]

Baptism is very important …for then we are “in Christ”. and Jesus said to let “the Children come to me”…

The Church says of course it is very important that when infants are brought for Baptism that they will be raised in the Faith…taught all about Jesus and the teachings of the Church…this is a real responsibility …(but yes sadly it does not always happena and sadly some later get pulled away by well meaning mis-informed people…this is true…our job is to re-propose Christ and the fullness of what he gave us to them…)

As to John’s baptism…it was a “baptism of repentance” not our Sacrament of Baptism (which while it includes repentance for adults…it is much more)…so one would not have infants coming to repent personal sins…for such have not been yet committed by them…

The grace of Baptism from the Catechism:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#VII

as to the Baptism of Infants:

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51

 

[lampstand]

The gifts God gives us are so many and so great, that if we waited until we perfectly understood them all, none of us would ever have time to get baptized. Who on Earth is ever ‘ready’ for it? Who ‘knows enough’? There is also the danger that the longer you wait, the closer you get to some random accident that takes you out of this life, and you miss completely the chance to get baptized at all. None of us knows when we’ll die-- how long do you want to wait, as long as Constantine? We don’t wait until a baby understands why it is being fed, we just feed it. Why wait for spiritual things? Jesus said, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of God.” Good enough for me.

 

[GratefulFred]

Welcome to Catholic Forums, JosemariaDon.

Baptism removes Original Sin from our soul and is a prerequiste for entering Heaven. Parents, speaking for their infant, ask for Baptism as a matter of protection. In Baptism we are asking for the Gift of Faith for our child. As parents, we are obliged to nurture that Faith as the child grows.

Raised in the Catholic Faith, children generally receive their first Confession and First Holy Communion about age 7. At this age, with proper instruction, children have sense of God and His love for us and the need to avoid sin and the value of God’s forgiveness when we do sin.

Raised in the Catholic Faith, children also receive the Sacrament of Confirmation about age 14. Just as we begin to enter adulthood, we are now capable of making our personal, lifelong commitment to follow Christ.

Nuturing the Gift of Faith is a lifelong process started by the Parents at Baptism and supported by others in the family and friends and eventually taken over by the child as he or she grows into adulthood.

 

[adrift]

Col 2

11 in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

]In that passage

, he refers to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ” and “the circumcision made without hands.” Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I was invited by a wonderful couple over for Christmas dinner, one of which use to be Roman Catholic and had been influence heavily by a Catholic Hate Group which targets truck drivers.
You may have seen their trailer set up at truck stops.
Any ways she now have a very anti-catholic view point but still loves to read the bible.

That is the background for the thoughts which I am about to mention:

I think that it is very sad that some people are baptist into the church without any knowledge of what they are given baptism for. Jesus was not even given baptism by Saint John until into his adult life. Shouldn’t the Church wait until a person willing accept the Church Doctrines before receiving baptism? This certainly would prevent all of these ex-Catholics from being Ex, and bad mouthing the faith. The first thing out of there mouth is, “I use to be Catholic” and then they precede with all kinds of awful things which they claim about the Church teaching which the Church do not teach and never has.
Oh, by the way, I recommended her to this forum so that she could hopefully learn what she should have been taught by her God-Parents.

Removing Original Sin shortly after birth? Why, it’s an outrage. Practically child abuse.

 

[kimmielittle]

Removing Original Sin shortly after birth? Why, it’s an outrage. Practically child abuse.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[JosemariaDon]

LOL, No, it doesn’t sound that bad. But, according to the canon law the age of reason(discretion) is on completion of the 7th birthday, minus the innocents of course.
Wouldn’t it be better to wait until a child at least can reason before baptism him. At least they would have some form of conscience agreement and would be less likely to turn against the Church later on. I will look up the above reference which someone was kind enough to supply and see if my own conscience is transform.

 

[JosemariaDon]

Baptism is very important …for then we are “in Christ”. and Jesus said to let “the Children come to me”…

Yes, I notice this in the bible. Seems to refer to children who can already walk, does it not? Maybe, even children who had reach the age of reason.

The Church says of course it is very important that when infants are brought for Baptism that they will be raised in the Faith…taught all about Jesus and the teachings of the Church…this is a real responsibility …(but yes sadly it does not always happena and sadly some later get pulled away by well meaning mis-informed people…this is true…our job is to re-propose Christ and the fullness of what he gave us to them…)

Well, said.

As to John’s baptism…it was a “baptism of repentance” not our Sacrament of Baptism (which while it includes repentance for adults…it is much more)…so one would not have infants coming to repent personal sins…for such have not been yet committed by them…

So, are you saying that John’s baptism of Jesus was for personal sins. I think not. Or perhaps, I need to make myself clearer.

The grace of Baptism from the Catechism:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#VII

as to the Baptism of Infants:

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51

Gotta love that Catechism, a lot of Catholics(Bishops, priests, and deacons included) from what I seen and heard needs to really sit down and read it. Perhaps, this young lady will be extremely repentant and go back to the Church and led her husband to it. They really are a wonderful couple.
Thanks for your and everyone else reply who participated in this thread.

 

[Vico]

The Holy Spirit has an effect upon babies. Elizabeth, pregnant with John the Baptist, to the Theotokos pregnant with Christ, Luke 1:44:

"For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy."

 

[estesbob]

LOL, No, it doesn’t sound that bad. But, according to the canon law the age of reason(discretion) is on completion of the 7th birthday, minus the innocents of course.
Wouldn’t it be better to wait until a child at least can reason before baptism him. At least they would have some form of conscience agreement and would be less likely to turn against the Church later on. I will look up the above reference which someone was kind enough to supply and see if my own conscience is transform.

Well lets l see. I decide what doctors my child sees , what they eat, where they live, where they go to school, what language they learn, but I have to leave their immortal soul at risk so at the grand old age of seven they can make up their own mind as to what religion they want to be in???

To not raise your child in the Catholic faith from the day they are born would be child abuse.

 

[Tomb54]

True love is wanting the very best for those you love and the very best is heaven. Parents baptize their children with the desire that if anything happens their child is assured heaven. The problem here is also if the parents truly want this for their child they should take the time to teach their children the faith so they will know their faith and at confirmation then the child will truly know what they are accepting and will want to live their faith. This is the are we Catholic need to work on. How does her parent feel about her and what she says?

 

[Snugglebugmom]

Jesus wasn’t baptized as a baby because He was Jewish. The Jewish people didn’t baptize their children, they circumcised their boys. Which is what happened to Jesus when He was eight days old, in accordance with Jewish tradition.
I echo Tomb54’s sentiment: parents baptize their children with the desire that if anything happens, their child is assured heaven.
(And I also agree that that is not the be-all, end-all… in fact, a parent’s task is just beginning with baptism.)

 

[promethius]

I was invited by a wonderful couple over for Christmas dinner, one of which use to be Roman Catholic and had been influence heavily by a Catholic Hate Group which targets truck drivers.
You may have seen their trailer set up at truck stops.
Any ways she now have a very anti-catholic view point but still loves to read the bible.

That is the background for the thoughts which I am about to mention:

I think that it is very sad that some people are baptist into the church without any knowledge of what they are given baptism for. Jesus was not even given baptism by Saint John until into his adult life. Shouldn’t the Church wait until a person willing accept the Church Doctrines before receiving baptism? This certainly would prevent all of these ex-Catholics from being Ex, and bad mouthing the faith. The first thing out of there mouth is, “I use to be Catholic” and then they precede with all kinds of awful things which they claim about the Church teaching which the Church do not teach and never has.
Oh, by the way, I recommended her to this forum so that she could hopefully learn what she should have been taught by her God-Parents.

By any chance, does she hold to sola fide? If so, and she follows the teaching that nothing of salvation comes from one’s self, then you should point out to her that she absolutely should embrace infant baptism because HER OWN DOCTRINE says that God confers salvation independent of any action on the part of the person, including adult choice FOR baptism. In other words, per sola fide, there is no reason for consent to be required for baptism to be rendered.

 

[JosemariaDon]

True love is wanting the very best for those you love and the very best is heaven. Parents baptize their children with the desire that if anything happens their child is assured heaven. The problem here is also if the parents truly want this for their child they should take the time to teach their children the faith so they will know their faith and at confirmation then the child will truly know what they are accepting and will want to live their faith. This is the are we Catholic need to work on. How does her parent feel about her and what she says?

She is in her late 40,s. But this is not the first person I have heard say they use to be Catholic and then …blah, blah, blah. I of course put my 2 cents worth in, in defense of the Church when I hear such nonsense, being a non-Catholic myself, I am still learning, hoping one day to be worthy of taking communion, but until then, I let the Holy Spirit guide me, irregardless of the onslaught. It is kind of humorous in a horrible sense of way. Here are all of these Catholics with no knowledge of what they got and flush it down the commode (figuratively speaking) and I would give my very life to have been born in their shoes.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

LOL, No, it doesn’t sound that bad. But, according to the canon law the age of reason(discretion) is on completion of the 7th birthday, minus the innocents of course.
Wouldn’t it be better to wait until a child at least can reason before baptism him. At least they would have some form of conscience agreement and would be less likely to turn against the Church later on. I will look up the above reference which someone was kind enough to supply and see if my own conscience is transform.

No! you should not wait. A baby also doesn’t know what a bath is for…doesn’t mean it isn’t good for them. I myself feel blessed that I was baptized at 7 days old.

I think what you are thinking of is confirmation…

 

[Tomb54]

She is in her late 40,s. But this is not the first person I have heard say they use to be Catholic and then …blah, blah, blah. I of course put my 2 cents worth in, in defense of the Church when I hear such nonsense, being a non-Catholic myself, I am still learning, hoping one day to be worthy of taking communion, but until then, I let the Holy Spirit guide me, irregardless of the onslaught. It is kind of humorous in a horrible sense of way. Here are all of these Catholics with no knowledge of what they got and flush it down the commode (figuratively speaking) and I would give my very life to have been born in their shoes.

Convert and reverts are a blessing from God to the Church as they can truly help revitalize the church with what they have learned on the way and with their enthusiasm. I know what you mean with no knowledge as part of what I am doing in my parish by request of our priest is to try to educate the parents in their faith so they can actually teach tehir childern the faith that they are suppose to know already. I can tell you it is hard to get them interested to actually show up. I get some but know the ones that need it most are most likely not there.

 

[JosemariaDon]

The Holy Spirit has an effect upon babies. Elizabeth, pregnant with John the Baptist, to the Theotokos pregnant with Christ, Luke 1:44:

"For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy."

Yes, it does say that, did not even think about that for some odd reason. That certainly wraps it up for me, hard to argue with facts. Thanks!