Baptism at 40 days

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

I was interested in knowing if non-Latin Churches still keep the practice of baptizing infants 40 days after birth. If so, are Sundays taken into account? Also, what is the “rationale” behind the 40 days (I recognize the symbolism of the number, but wonder if there’s more to it).

 

[chaldobyzantine]

This is a very good question. In Byzantine churches, it usually isn’t Baptism but Churching of the mother and infant forty days after the child is born.

orthodoxwiki.org/Churching
mliles.com/melkite/churching.shtml
goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/churching
stgeorgegoc.org/baptism.htm

 

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

How long do Byzantines generally wait to Baptize infants? I take it most who reply here are Americans, but if there are non-Americans here, I’d like to hear from you as well.

 

[malphono]

Among the Maronites, in the case of infant baptism, the mother is normally “churched” the day of the baptism. The priest meets them at the door of the church, where the brief rite is performed. They then proceed to the baptistry.

It seems that the 40 days is generally followed (at least under normal circumstances). AFAIK, most infant baptisms take place when the child is about 6 weeks old.

 

[Nan_S]

Churching is a beautiful ceremony, full of tradition and symbolism. What a wonderful way to welcome the newest member of God’s family.

Unfortunately I just can’t understand why a woman who is able to leave her home and travel about town has to be barred from the church and Holy Communion for 40 days as if she were a sinner needing a period of contemplation before being reconciled to God. She hasn’t sinned. Indeed, by bringing a new baby into the world she has just participated in one of God’s greatest miracles.

 

[malphono]

Churching is a beautiful ceremony, full of tradition and symbolism. What a wonderful way to welcome the newest member of God’s family.

Unfortunately I just can’t understand why a woman who is able to leave her home and travel about town has to be barred from the church and Holy Communion for 40 days as if she were a sinner needing a period of contemplation before being reconciled to God. She hasn’t sinned. Indeed, by bringing a new baby into the world she has just participated in one of God’s greatest miracles.

Whereas that may have been the custom in the past, it’s no long true that the woman is actually “barred” from the church. Albeit that that the practice of “churching” survives in the East and Orient, it’s become more of a symbolic thing. For all the reason you mention.

 

[Nan_S]

Whereas that may have been the custom in the past, it’s no long true that the woman is actually “barred” from the church. Albeit that that the practice of “churching” survives in the East and Orient, it’s become more of a symbolic thing. For all the reason you mention.

And yet, even in churches where a new mother is not prohibited from attending Divine Worship, she is still supposed to refrain from approaching Holy Communion until the 40 days have passed and the Churching ceremony is held. Why?

From the Saint George Greek Orthodox Church link posted by chaldobyzantine:

If she is able, she is encouraged to attend church services but should refrain from receiving Holy Communion until after the 40 Day Churching.

In the unfortunate event of miscarriage… The mother is still encouraged to come to the temple for the 40 Day Churching so she may be prayerfully reunited with the community of faith.

What is it about childbirth or miscarriage that infringes upon the union between a woman and the community of faith?

This 40-day restriction made sense in ancient Israel, when a new mother woman was considered ritually unclean under Mosaic law. The “unclean” stigmatism kept her husband out of her bed until her body had a chance to heal. It makes no sense that I can see as a reason for withholding Holy Communion from a woman who has not sinned.

I really hope someone can explain this. I seriously considered joining the Orthodox church at one point, but this seemingly irrational adherence to human tradition became a big stumbling block for me.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

The Ruthenians usually church on the day in which the infant is initiated.

While the 40 day custom is not typically emphasized, some families (mine included) have asked for the Rites of Christian Initiation to be scheduled on a Sunday near the 40 day mark.

 

[Aramis]

And yet, even in churches where a new mother is not prohibited from attending Divine Worship, she is still supposed to refrain from approaching Holy Communion until the 40 days have passed and the Churching ceremony is held. Why?

Keep in mind: the mother has her sunday and holy day obligations completely waived until she is churched. It’s no sin for her to stay home and rest.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The knowledge is not lost in my parish. Now if anyone is actually practicing this is another question.

 

[Rawb]

My priest says if the woman is staying home and relaxing - not going out to eat, not shopping for fun (going to work can be allowed if necessary) she is excused from going to church for the 40 days and he will Church her just before the child’s baptism on the 40th day. If she is doing those things she should come to be churched before the 40 days is up and begin attending church again. My wife and I are currently working out whether we can have her resting and relaxing for the 40 days.

 

[CB_Catholic]

My priest says if the woman is staying home and relaxing - not going out to eat, not shopping for fun (going to work can be allowed if necessary) she is excused from going to church for the 40 days and he will Church her just before the child’s baptism on the 40th day. If she is doing those things she should come to be churched before the 40 days is up and begin attending church again. My wife and I are currently working out whether we can have her resting and relaxing for the 40 days.

Do you have children? There is no resting and relaxing with a newborn in the house. Going out to eat and shopping for fun are the resting and relaxing for a new mother.

No wonder the custom is dying out, both West and East.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My wife was back in church by the second Sunday after giving birth via c-section.

The churching has become part of the Baptismal celebration, the Rite is performed towards the end of Liturgy.

 

[Rawb]

Do you have children? There is no resting and relaxing with a newborn in the house. Going out to eat and shopping for fun are the resting and relaxing for a new mother.

No wonder the custom is dying out, both West and East.

We’re expecting our first in March, and my wife actually hates shopping and eating out. She’d much prefer to stay at home and cook (she’s a better cook than the stuff you can buy at a restaurant anyway). How can she not be resting? The cooking and cleaning is my job for the 40 days.

Who said the custom is dying out in the East? It’s long gone in the West (the Roman Catholic West anyway) but the 40 Day Churching of women is completely standard in Orthodox parishes. A woman might not need the whole 40 days, but she will be churched before she begins active involvement in parish ministries again, and she is expected to be resting and is excused from any religious duties before then.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We’re expecting our first in March, and my wife actually hates shopping and eating out. She’d much prefer to stay at home and cook (she’s a better cook than the stuff you can buy at a restaurant anyway). How can she not be resting? The cooking and cleaning is my job for the 40 days.

Who said the custom is dying out in the East? It’s long gone in the West (the Roman Catholic West anyway) but the 40 Day Churching of women is completely standard in Orthodox parishes. A woman might not need the whole 40 days, but she will be churched before she begins active involvement in parish ministries again, and she is expected to be resting and is excused from any religious duties before then.

Going to church is too important for us
Our priest actually said he was surprised how soon my wife was back in church.

 

[babochka]

We’re expecting our first in March, and my wife actually hates shopping and eating out. She’d much prefer to stay at home and cook (she’s a better cook than the stuff you can buy at a restaurant anyway). How can she not be resting? The cooking and cleaning is my job for the 40 days.

Resting and the often-said “sleep when the baby sleeps” works well for the first baby, or perhaps if you have children spaced at least 4-5 years apart. For those of us who have a toddler in the house, even with a fantastic husband like mine, rest just isn’t always possible.

 

[babochka]

My wife was back in church by the second Sunday after giving birth via c-section.

The churching has become part of the Baptismal celebration, the Rite is performed towards the end of Liturgy.

So was I. I’ve had 5 children, including 4 c-sections and I’ve always been able to go to church the Sunday after I’ve been released from the hospital. We live in modern times, when cars smoothly take us where we want to go and, for the most part, we don’t have to harvest our own food. For this I’m grateful. It really isn’t so much work to get to church (although the stairs were a killer for a few weeks) when I have somebody to drive me and chase after the toddler for me. I can still get necessary rest and go to church. This hasn’t always been the case, however, when going to church meant traveling on or by wagon, along unpaved roads. It still doesn’t violate the principle that rest is necessary.

 

[Rawb]

Resting and the often-said “sleep when the baby sleeps” works well for the first baby, or perhaps if you have children spaced at least 4-5 years apart. For those of us who have a toddler in the house, even with a fantastic husband like mine, rest just isn’t always possible.

So much the better then to be excused from church and work expectations.

At any rate I’m sorry I brought up our particular plans - I didn’t mean to invite others to comment on our personal lives. (and I’m not upset or anything, I’m trying to cut this off before it gets to where I might be).

 

[babochka]

So much the better then to be excused from church and work expectations.

At any rate I’m sorry I brought up our particular plans - I didn’t mean to invite others to comment on our personal lives. (and I’m not upset or anything, I’m trying to cut this off before it gets to where I might be).

You’re a wise man. :yup: For the record, I agree that a woman who has just given birth is completely released from any obligation to attend church for the first 40 days.

 

[Nan_S]

All of your replies are most kind. I appreciate that a woman is excused from her obligations for 40 days. I have three children myself and know how stressful it is to be a new mother.

BUT…

At the time when I am most in need of spiritual nourishment, if I can get out of the house long enough to attend Divine Worship (and God KNOWS a new mother needs a change of secenery!!!), WHY WHY WHY do I have to sit in the pew like a shame-filled sinner and not dare to approach Holy Communion until some archaic 40-day ritual purification period has passed?

I had to return to the doctor’s office three days after being discharged from the hospital.
I had to drive myself to the store within a week.
When my first child was born I only got 4 weeks maternity leave. (Thankfully the company changed its rules afterwards.)
The mortgage company and the credit card company still wanted their payments on time, and the bank insisted I not bounce checks, so I had to deal with those like every other month.
I had to set up child care arrangements, clean house, care for the older children, deal with houseguests.
AND do all that while nursing a newborn every 2 or 3 hours round the clock, which meant I didn’t have any decent rest for over a month like every other new mother.

You get the idea. Very stressful time. I hungered for the spiritual nourishment provided by our blessed Lord to lift me up and keep me going.

But in the Orthodox church, I’m told to sit quietly in the pew and wait… and wait… and wait… No Holy Communion for you. No no no. You haven’t fulfilled the 40-day waiting period. Come back later.

Can someone please explain this?