Baptism at Sunday Mass

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"RyanBlack:
In the absence of emergencies, baptisms should take place during the Sunday celebration of the Mass.
I never said that it is required by Church teaching. What I stated is my opinion
Umm… 🤷 ok.
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RyanBlack:
my opinion, based on the theology of baptism. … it is most fitting that baptisms occur in the context of the celebration of the Mass/Divine Liturgy/Holy Qurbana.
Except that your opinion isn’t what the Church teaches as its theology of baptism, in its Rite of Baptism. I mean, I could see that you might say “I would hope that baptisms take place…” or “I’m most edified when baptisms take place…”; but not that “based on the theology of baptism… it is most fitting that baptisms occur in the context of the celebration of the Mass.” 🤷
 
However worthy and noble and symbolically and liturgically desirable Baptism at Sunday Mass may be, I have another perspective: Baptisms are an important teaching moment for the family. Frequently family members attend a Baptism who otherwise may not have attended church for some time. The occasion of Baptism is a special and important day for the family. In the setting of all that, I regret that families experiencing their special day may do so at a regular Sunday Mass where 90% of the people in the pews aren’t known to the family, likely don’t care, feel put-upon that Mass is taking longer than they expect, and during the Baptism ritual itself generate a background chorus of throat-clearing, butt-shifting, change-rattling, small child squaling noise to detract from the experience. This is especially pronounced when there were multiple children to be Baptized at the same Mass.

My prior parish used to do this, and I always felt bad that the families usually ended-up feeling that what should have been a special experience instead came across as a. Imposition on the congregation.

For all of these reasons I have always felt that Baptisms outside of Mass, in the end, made for a better experience for the families. I’m sure there are congregations out there that are far more supporting of Baptisms at Mass, but I also don’t think my experiences are unique.
I find it sad that any parish would be one where a family, having attended for a period of time, would only know maybe 10% of those attending that Mass. It says volumes for the “Me and Jesus” crowd, who seem not to understand that the Church is a community; the parish is a microcosm of that community, and if one is in a community, then the only way it can really be a community is if people come to know one another.

And how do you do that? I have yet to find a parish that does not have a number of volunteer groups. join one. Ask people to introduce you to others. Attend whatever social events are put on by the parish, and don’t go to those, sit by yourself, and get up and leave right away.

There are hundreds of excuses why people cannot get to know others in a parish, but extremely few reasons. And having a baptism after the Mass is one more way of excluding the rest of the parish from getting to know the family. Golly - if one had the baptism during the Mass, why, some people you don’t know might come up to congratulate you. What a bother!
 
I find it sad that any parish would be one where a family, having attended for a period of time, would only know maybe 10% of those attending that Mass. It says volumes for the “Me and Jesus” crowd, who seem not to understand that the Church is a community; the parish is a microcosm of that community, and if one is in a community, then the only way it can really be a community is if people come to know one another.

And how do you do that? I have yet to find a parish that does not have a number of volunteer groups. join one. Ask people to introduce you to others. Attend whatever social events are put on by the parish, and don’t go to those, sit by yourself, and get up and leave right away.

There are hundreds of excuses why people cannot get to know others in a parish, but extremely few reasons. And having a baptism after the Mass is one more way of excluding the rest of the parish from getting to know the family. Golly - if one had the baptism during the Mass, why, some people you don’t know might come up to congratulate you. What a bother!
This seems awfully harsh, and doesn’t seem to address what Tarpeian was saying at all. I thought his points were valid, and had nothing to with excluding the rest of the parish to avoid being congratulated and having to meet new people.

As I mentioned in a previous post, our baptisms generally take place after Mass, and it’s common for other parishioners to stay late and witness the baptism with the family. Just because one wants a more intimate setting for family and friends to witness their child’s baptism does not mean they are trying to avoid the rest of the congregation, and to suggest so is preposterous.
 
I find it sad that any parish would be one where a family, having attended for a period of time, would only know maybe 10% of those attending that Mass. It says volumes for the “Me and Jesus” crowd, who seem not to understand that the Church is a community; the parish is a microcosm of that community, and if one is in a community, then the only way it can really be a community is if people come to know one another.

And how do you do that? I have yet to find a parish that does not have a number of volunteer groups. join one. Ask people to introduce you to others. Attend whatever social events are put on by the parish, and don’t go to those, sit by yourself, and get up and leave right away.
I have been a member of my parish for just about 26 years and I am involved in seven ministries, including baptism, in my parish, a parish that is pushing 6,000 families as we speak. I don’t know 600 families and to say that that is sad is a joke. I know a lot of people, probably more than make up many parishes, but to make a blanket statement like you did is silly.
There are hundreds of excuses why people cannot get to know others in a parish, but extremely few reasons. And having a baptism after the Mass is one more way of excluding the rest of the parish from getting to know the family. Golly - if one had the baptism during the Mass, why, some people you don’t know might come up to congratulate you. What a bother!
Well, let’s talk about that. 11:00 am Mass on Sunday typically has 1,600 to 1,800 people in attendance. The area around the baptismal font is crowded with people standing for the Mass that have to be moved so that the baptism can take place. How many people at the Mass do you really think will get to know the family during the baptism?

Does someone coming up to congratulate you equivalent to getting to know them?

Why did the Church develop a specific Rite of Baptism for Infants?

Peace

Tim
 
Except that your opinion isn’t what the Church teaches as its theology of baptism, in its Rite of Baptism. I mean, I could see that you might say “I would hope that baptisms take place…” or “I’m most edified when baptisms take place…”; but not that “based on the theology of baptism… it is most fitting that baptisms occur in the context of the celebration of the Mass.” 🤷
Again, I didn’t say it’s Church teaching, which is why I said it’s my opinion. It is an opinion that is based in what the Church does in fact teach about baptism, but I did not claim that it has the force of Church teaching.
 
I find it sad that any parish would be one where a family, having attended for a period of time, would only know maybe 10% of those attending that Mass. It says volumes for the “Me and Jesus” crowd, who seem not to understand that the Church is a community; the parish is a microcosm of that community, and if one is in a community, then the only way it can really be a community is if people come to know one another.

And how do you do that? I have yet to find a parish that does not have a number of volunteer groups. join one. Ask people to introduce you to others. Attend whatever social events are put on by the parish, and don’t go to those, sit by yourself, and get up and leave right away.

There are hundreds of excuses why people cannot get to know others in a parish, but extremely few reasons. And having a baptism after the Mass is one more way of excluding the rest of the parish from getting to know the family. Golly - if one had the baptism during the Mass, why, some people you don’t know might come up to congratulate you. What a bother!
Quite right! There’s nothing I enjoy more than seeing the beautiful young child in his parent’s arms, and the delight of the Deacon or the priest proclaiming “Please welcome, the newest member of St. Matthew, Elizabeth!” And the people cheer and we sing a song of joy! As I said before we ALL renew our Baptismal promises…it’s very moving.
It’s lovely…the parents and family are greeted by many after Mass, often waiting quite a while until the pictures are over to offer their congratulations. :clapping:
Initially, myself and others would groan…“oh a Baptism today” but after studying the Baptisms of the early church, we in the parish have come to view them with great anticipation. I NOW hear people saying "oooo look! We’re having a Baptism today! How wonderful! Every person there gets up out of their pew and gathers around the font. It’s beautiful. And, I can assure you, those parents don’t dunk and run. They stay and are very active, because they know they are home.
 
I find it sad that any parish would be one where a family, having attended for a period of time, would only know maybe 10% of those attending that Mass. It says volumes for the “Me and Jesus” crowd, who seem not to understand that the Church is a community; the parish is a microcosm of that community, and if one is in a community, then the only way it can really be a community is if people come to know one another.
I was the Parish secretary for 13 years in the small parish (~425 families) where I’ve lived for the last 17 years. Most of the parishioners are still just names on a list/envelope to me. Yet over the years I’ve been an EMHC, on the liturgy committee and on the parish council; I’m still a reader, still on the finance council, still doing baptismal preparation, and on the pastoral team to go to the hospital, funeral home & to lead a Sunday Celebration of the Word if no priest is available.

Why don’t I know more people? Because only the same few people volunteer for those things and a good portion of our parishioners only darken the door if there is a death or a baptism. I know most of the 40 or so who attend Saturday Mass because that’s where my ministry as reader usually has me serve, but the Sunday crowd who would be there for a baptism? I really wouldn’t know many.

That said, I would still want my children baptized at a Sunday Mass even if I knew no one. I see what it’s like each time and it’s so very different from when my three were baptized outside of Mass 34, 32, and 30 years ago.
 
One of our sons was baptized at Mass, and the other was baptized afterwards so the deacon assigned to our parish for the summer could baptize him. I think I prefer during Mass, but at our parish the norm tends to be afterwards (though the norm also seems to be that the baby is baptized and then the family is never seen again :().

I remember a few years ago, our pastor got complaints because a baby was baptized on Easter Sunday at Mass, which was apparently a huge distraction. The mother had been baptized the day before at the Vigil. I thought it was lovely, but apparently not everyone agreed. 🤷
 
One of our sons was baptized at Mass, and the other was baptized afterwards so the deacon assigned to our parish for the summer could baptize him. I think I prefer during Mass, but at our parish the norm tends to be afterwards (though the norm also seems to be that the baby is baptized and then the family is never seen again :().

I remember a few years ago, our pastor got complaints because a baby was baptized on Easter Sunday at Mass, which was apparently a huge distraction. The mother had been baptized the day before at the Vigil. I thought it was lovely, but apparently not everyone agreed. 🤷
Wow, that’s sad. I think some Catholics view Baptism similar to getting your membership card punched.
Why didn’t they Baptize mama and baby at the same time? We bring in whole families at the Easter Vigil…it’s very moving for them. And lovely for US to see. It’s very sad to realize that people don’t feel that Baptism is a huge deal for the Body of Christ itself…not just a “family party”. Maybe that’s a good homily topic. Or an article in the bulletin?
Missed opportunities for catechesis and support. Yeah. No wonder they don’t return. 🤷
Glad you were supportive and happy to be there. 👍
 
Quite right! There’s nothing I enjoy more than seeing the beautiful young child in his parent’s arms, and the delight of the Deacon or the priest proclaiming “Please welcome, the newest member of St. Matthew, Elizabeth!” And the people cheer and we sing a song of joy! As I said before we ALL renew our Baptismal promises…it’s very moving.
It’s lovely…the parents and family are greeted by many after Mass, often waiting quite a while until the pictures are over to offer their congratulations. :clapping:
Initially, myself and others would groan…“oh a Baptism today” but after studying the Baptisms of the early church, we in the parish have come to view them with great anticipation. I NOW hear people saying "oooo look! We’re having a Baptism today! How wonderful! Every person there gets up out of their pew and gathers around the font. It’s beautiful. And, I can assure you, those parents don’t dunk and run. They stay and are very active, because they know they are home.
Well, we typically baptize between 8 and 16 babies three times a month. Unless we want to make baptism a part of every Mass, including multiple children per Mass, then baptizing during Mass in my parish is not real practical.

Peace

Tim
 
Well, we typically baptize between 8 and 16 babies three times a month. Unless we want to make baptism a part of every Mass, including multiple children per Mass, then baptizing during Mass in my parish is not real practical.

Peace

Tim
Who said they had to be individual?
We baptize the third week of the month.
We only do it differently if people are coming in from out of state for some reason.
 
Who said they had to be individual?
We baptize the third week of the month.
We only do it differently if people are coming in from out of state for some reason.
I didn’t mean that they had to be individual, but I don’t think you understand the numbers. Last year, we baptized 190 babies. If we only baptized at one Mass per month, we would be looking at about 17 babies at that Mass (assuming 11 months because we don’t baptize during Lent).

Currently we baptize on the second and third Sundays at 1:00 pm and fourth Saturdays at 11:00 am. When we have a full baptism group (officially 16 babies), we can easily have several hundred people present just for the baptisms, including many who are not Catholic or who live out of town or are in a different parish. And it can be that way for each of the three baptism ceremonies. Logistically, once a month would not work.

I don’t have a problem with baptisms at Mass, but the Church developed a stand alone Rite for a reason.

Peace

Tim
 
I didn’t mean that they had to be individual, but I don’t think you understand the numbers. Last year, we baptized 190 babies. If we only baptized at one Mass per month, we would be looking at about 17 babies at that Mass (assuming 11 months because we don’t baptize during Lent).

Currently we baptize on the second and third Sundays at 1:00 pm and fourth Saturdays at 11:00 am. When we have a full baptism group (officially 16 babies), we can easily have several hundred people present just for the baptisms, including many who are not Catholic or who live out of town or are in a different parish. And it can be that way for each of the three baptism ceremonies. Logistically, once a month would not work.

I don’t have a problem with baptisms at Mass, but the Church developed a stand alone Rite for a reason.

Peace

Tim
I suppose. And I’m glad I’m in a more “intimate” parish. Despite pressure form people to “grow” (and bring in more money…but that’s another can 0 worms) 😉
 
When the previous pastor was the priest here, there was a baptism during Sunday Mass.
After the infant was baptized, Father carried the baby in his arms and walked up and down the aisles.
This was done to present the newly baptized Catholic child to the congregation.
 
I didn’t mean that they had to be individual, but I don’t think you understand the numbers. Last year, we baptized 190 babies. If we only baptized at one Mass per month, we would be looking at about 17 babies at that Mass (assuming 11 months because we don’t baptize during Lent).
Wow, you must have a huge parish! Why are there are no baptisms during Lent?
Currently we baptize on the second and third Sundays at 1:00 pm and fourth Saturdays at 11:00 am. When we have a full baptism group (officially 16 babies), we can easily have several hundred people present just for the baptisms, including many who are not Catholic or who live out of town or are in a different parish. And it can be that way for each of the three baptism ceremonies. Logistically, once a month would not work.
You make a point here. Personally, I think most parishes are way too big, but without more priests, this is unlikely to change.
I don’t have a problem with baptisms at Mass, but the Church developed a stand alone Rite for a reason.

Tim
True, but I doubt the Church developed the rite for any of the reasons you mention.
 
I suppose. And I’m glad I’m in a more “intimate” parish. Despite pressure form people to “grow” (and bring in more money…but that’s another can 0 worms) 😉
I agree. I’m in a very small parish and we look forward to each and every baptism. We are parish family, and we as a parish family welcome the biological family (who often outnumber parishioners). I know that this is not a reality for many parishes in this country, but it does make a difference in how we view these things. We know the parents, we know the siblings. We are involved in each others lives outside of the parish on Sunday mornings. Of course, the smallness of our parish does limit the number of baptisms as well. We currently have 20 families, and have 3-4 baptisms each year.
 
I agree. I’m in a very small parish and we look forward to each and every baptism. We are parish family, and we as a parish family welcome the biological family (who often outnumber parishioners). I know that this is not a reality for many parishes in this country, but it does make a difference in how we view these things. We know the parents, we know the siblings. We are involved in each others lives outside of the parish on Sunday mornings. Of course, the smallness of our parish does limit the number of baptisms as well. We currently have 20 families, and have 3-4 baptisms each year.
There are never baptisms in Lent.
 
My daughters parish required a Sunday mass. The problem was they only baptized every other month. This was a problem in trying to have the baptism when family could come. The Parish said it wasn’t important for family to be there :eek: As a result my daughter had her children baptized at other parishes. That seems simple but you should understand that the closest other parish was two hours away. She lives in a rural area.
 
There are never baptisms in Lent.
I don’t believe that’s a matter of actual Church teaching, or canon law. A pastor could institute such a policy on the parish level, or a bishop on the diocesan level, but from what I’ve read, there’s no such universal law.
 
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