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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Thank you! Much obliged!
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
I’ve read the history. I’ve no doubt that immersion was practiced in the early Church. My point was that it was not the only method practiced. Pouring water over the person was also practiced and was even directed by the first-century Didache, a manual used by the early Church for the instruction of adult pagan converts. And I presented the evidence of the oldest baptistry every found, according to Kee, a Methodist biblical scholar.
And I wanted to debunk the Baptist allegation (which I know very well, having been a Baptist for many years through no fault of my own
) that the word “baptism” means immersion only.
As the Protestant scholar Easton points out, “baptism” has other meanings and is used in the LXX (the Greek Septuagint OT) – which Baptists and other Protestants reject, but was accepted as Scripture by the Jews until sometime after the first Christian century, and was adopted as the Scriptures of the early Church.
**“In the New Testament there cannot be found a single well-authenticated instance of the occurrence of the word [baptism] where it necessarily means immersion.” **(Easton)
Jim Dandy
And I wanted to debunk the Baptist allegation (which I know very well, having been a Baptist for many years through no fault of my own
) that the word “baptism” means immersion only.As the Protestant scholar Easton points out, “baptism” has other meanings and is used in the LXX (the Greek Septuagint OT) – which Baptists and other Protestants reject, but was accepted as Scripture by the Jews until sometime after the first Christian century, and was adopted as the Scriptures of the early Church.
**“In the New Testament there cannot be found a single well-authenticated instance of the occurrence of the word [baptism] where it necessarily means immersion.” **(Easton)
Jim Dandy
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SteveVH
Guest
No more than giving the Eucharist under both species might lead people to think that both are required in order to receive the entire body and blood of the Lord. I see where you’re comming from but obviously some catechesis is required to prevent this from happening.
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Eutychus123
Guest
I am reminded of the old joke about it being that “it’s the top of the head that counts” 
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GlobalWolf
Guest
I would say that, given the location at the Jordan River, the language used in the New Testament, and the practice of the early church, it’s not too much of a stretch to say that Jesus’ Baptism was by full immersion. The Didache does include provisions for pouring in a situation where someone doesn’t have sufficient water, but it suggests a clear preference for immersion, and most historians agree that it was the common practice in the early years of the church.
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GlobalWolf
Guest
I would say that, given the location at the Jordan River, the language used in the New Testament, and the practice of the early church, it’s pretty obvious that Jesus’ Baptism was by full immersion. The Didache suggests a clear preference for immersion, and most historians agree that it was the common practice in the early years of the church. I’m not certain, but I think that other forms (particularly sprinkling, if not others) were controversial in the early church.
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ltwin
Guest
Honestly does it really matter. I mean personally I think immersion is the best way since it captures the identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection more fully than other ways. However, I’m not going to argue with someone who was sprinkled. It’s all the same thing.
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Calgar
Guest
No where in the Bible does it say that you cannot have even a drop of alchohol, but the Southern Baptists have that rule to.Hey Rocky, The Southern Baptist in my area state immersion is the only valid Baptism. I have asked several Southern Baptist to show me this in their Bible…They can’t.
No where in the Bible does state Christ was Baptized by immersion!
Matthew
Just because the Bible doesn’t specifically say you must do it (baptism) a certain way doesn’t mean you can’t.
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Dave_Noonan
Guest
The only problem is that baptizein doesn’t necessarily mean “plunge” or “immerse”. E.g., see Luke 11:38, Jud. 12:7, Sir. 34:30.
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Nicea325
Guest
Here is what I ask people who insist full immersion because Jesus was immersed and is the only valid method:Hey Rocky, The Southern Baptist in my area state immersion is the only valid Baptism. I have asked several Southern Baptist to show me this in their Bible…They can’t.
No where in the Bible does state Christ was Baptized by immersion!
Matthew
If you lived in Alaska would you immerse yourself in any body of water? What about if you lived in the middle of the desert? What if one has an issue with their skin?
Do you also ride a donkey or walk to work in sandals since Jesus did the same?
Full immersion is NOT the only valid method.
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Nicea325
Guest
:clapping:I’ve read the history. I’ve no doubt that immersion was practiced in the early Church. My point was that it was not the only method practiced. Pouring water over the person was also practiced and was even directed by the first-century Didache, a manual used by the early Church for the instruction of adult pagan converts. And I presented the evidence of the oldest baptistry every found, according to Kee, a Methodist biblical scholar.
And I wanted to debunk the Baptist allegation (which I know very well, having been a Baptist for many years through no fault of my own
As the Protestant scholar Easton points out, “baptism” has other meanings and is used in the LXX (the Greek Septuagint OT) – which Baptists and other Protestants reject, but was accepted as Scripture by the Jews until sometime after the first Christian century, and was adopted as the Scriptures of the early Church.
**“In the New Testament there cannot be found a single well-authenticated instance of the occurrence of the word [baptism] where it necessarily means immersion.” **(Easton)
Jim Dandy
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Harpazo
Guest
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Please post your evidence that Jesus’ baptism was by full immersion.
Please post your evidence that the Didache suggests a clear preference for immersion and that that other forms (other than immersion) were controversial in the early Church.
Thanks, Jim Dandy
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Nicea325
Guest
In cold freezing water?
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Or in frozen water (i.e., ice?)
Constantine was baptized on his deathbed. The Arian priest didn’t drag him out of bed in order to dunk him.
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Suslar
Guest
When someone claims they want to do things a certain way “because that’s how Jesus did it”, I refer them back to John’s Gospel – there is absolutely no evidence in that Gospel that Jesus was baptized.
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Nicea325
Guest
Exactly! If people want to follow the Bible to the last letter,then I find it amazing how so many of them do not do many other things Jesus and the Apostles did.
Or in frozen water (i.e., ice?)
Constantine was baptized on his deathbed. The Arian priest didn’t drag him out of bed in order to dunk him.
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Nicea325
Guest
That is true. Some people forget the Bible is a book of faith,not a daily detailed book what Jesus did every hour of the day and night and it must be done in such a fashion,etc.
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Harpazo
Guest
Who said it has to be outside? I was baptized in January of 2010 in VA. We made a baptismal font out of an old oil drum. The rite took place in the narthex of the church. Though sometimes in Russia they will cut into the ice and baptize people there. Don’t think anyone has died yet. If they have, what better way to go?
In Christ,
Andrew
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Calgar
Guest
Never been to Alaska, have you?
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