Baptism/Confirmation question

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7_Sorrows

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Was there ever a time in the Catholic church when babies were confirmed at the same time they were baptized?
 
7_Sorrows said:
Was there ever a time in the Catholic church when babies were confirmed at the same time they were baptized?
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Eastern Catholic churches still chrismate (confirm) infants immediately with baptism. The Latin church has now a different practice of delaying to confirm until the age of reason.

The Restored Order of Sacraments of Initiation, Diocese of Phoenix
In the early Church the sacraments of initiation were three: Baptism, Confirmation & Eucharist. They were celebrated together in a single rite, with a bishop as presider. This was the practice of the Roman Rite up until the 5th or 6th century when bishops could no longer be present at all baptisms, leading to a time of separation between baptism and confirmation. At first the time of separation was short, but as time went on, the delay for the bishop to arrive grew. Still the Church celebrated the sacraments in the order of Baptism, Confirmation & Eucharist until this century.
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http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm

CAF
The first explicit evidence of children of believing households being baptized comes from the early Church—where infant baptism was uniformly upheld and regarded as apostolic. In fact, the only reported controversy on the subject was a third-century debate whether or not to delay baptism until the eighth day after birth, like its Old Testament equivalent, circumcision! (See quotation from Cyprian, below; compare Leviticus 12:2–3.)
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Was the Catholic Church baptizing and confirming babies as recently as the 1960’s or 1970’s?
 
7_Sorrows said:
Was the Catholic Church baptizing and confirming babies as recently as the 1960’s or 1970’s?
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No, the development of postponed Confirmation and Eucharist is not related to the Second Vatican Council. I think it was related to the counter-reformation and the need for good Catechesis. 😉
 
My friend swears she was baptized as a baby and confirmed at the same time in the late 1960’s.
 
I’m not saying she’s lying. I’m just saying it’s got nothing to do with the other changes in the Church. Unless it’s a priest who thought back then that he could do it however. Some priests saw the changes in the Church as a carte blanche to change the form of… Basically everything.
 
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It could be that your friend was n danger of death when she was an infant or she could have been baptized in an eastern rite church.
 
No that was not the case.
I am not accusing her of not telling the truth, but a parent or other relative could have mistakenly told her that.

She wants her daughter to prepare for first communion and something
about it will take two years of classes if she has not been confirmed. Her
daughter is 15. They said she will need to show her baptismal papers also and my friend is not positive where her daughter was baptized.
So she has to look for those papers. I Don’t know why it would take 2 years
for both confirmation and first reconciliation/first communion.
There are 2 classes a week - a catechism class and another class.
I am not sure if she is being given the correct information.
 
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7_Sorrows said:
My friend swears she was baptized as a baby and confirmed at the same time in the late 1960’s.
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As far as I’m aware, that wasn’t the norm anywhere (besides Eastern rites) at that time. But as MortenBay, said, it’s always possible some priest took Vatican II as an invitation to do this.
 
Yes, and it happens every day for babies that are in danger of death when born.
 
I know in some places in Mexico they did this. A co-worker of mine who is in her early 30s was baptized and confirmed as an infant. It wasn’t a case of danger of death, it was just the way their diocese did things.
 
Maybe there is some confusion of the oil used at Baptism being confused with confirmation?
 
Many, I’d daresay most, US Dioceses require 2 years of Sacramental Prep.

This is why it is important to keep your kids in Religious Ed at the parish every year, but, that is now water under the bridge.

Your friend needs to contact the parish where her daughter was baptized. If she does not remember the parish, I’d hope she remembers the town. Then it is a matter of checking with various parishes in town. She can also check with the Diocese. Some Dioceses keep copies of the Sacramental Records from parishes as a back up.

Maybe a family member recalls the baptism.

This official baptismal record from the baptismal parish will note if there was Confirmation.
 
That is what I told her is to call the church she thinks she was baptized in. We live in a large city.
 
7_Sorrows said:
My friend swears she was baptized as a baby and confirmed at the same time in the late 1960’s.
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Was your friend born or baptized in Mexico, South America, the Philippines, or other areas traditionally associated with the Spanish Empire? In those places, particularly in more rural areas, it was pretty common well into the 70s and 80s to confirm infants. It still happens today, but is becoming less common .
 
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7_Sorrows said:
They said she will need to show her baptismal papers also and my friend is not positive where her daughter was baptized. So she has to look for those papers.
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I know that things can get foggy after you have a baby but I can’t wrap my head around not knowing where your child was baptized.
 
LOL - I know what you mean. Actually, I remember about 24 years ago, she wanted to baptize her first 2 kids who were maybe 2 and 3 at the time. She wasn’t married to their Dad and I think at that time, at least in this diocese, they would not baptize the children if the parents were not married. She told the church that her record of the marriage was lost and the church where they were married had burned down. I wasn’t Catholic at the time, but I didn’t think it was wise to be telling untruths to the church. I mean, obviously, they can check and see if such and such church really existed and if it had burned down.
So I am wondering if this daughter was never
baptized either. She was from a different Dad, but I think they evenrually married at some point, but later divorced. I love my
friend and she is around 50 now and she really was not a practicing Catholic once she reached 18. Which she freely admits. I am not sure the daughter will be able to make a 2
year commitment. Her other 2 kids are adults now and never made first reconciliation/first
communion or confirmation. I know my friend is not alone as many in her generation never made a commitment to their faith once they reached adulthood. I was in the Episcopal church and the same thing happened to me. I became Catholic at 56.
 
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