Baptism During Mass?

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the norm for baptism is during Sunday Mass because of the obvious Easter connection, Easter of course being the premier time for baptism. The entire community is supposed to welcome the newly baptized and support their parents and godparents in forming them in the faith.

I have heard the same complaints about RCIA rites during Masses of Lent, dismissal rite for RCIA, first communions etc. You have fair warning from now until the end of May, first communions at all Masses, but I do promise families are not supposed to take photos or videos during Mass. However there will be some commotion after Mass while Father poses for pictures with them and religious articles are blessed. These are also supposed to be part of regular Sunday Mass.

I have to go along with “get over it” if you understand it means that just because we have a comfort level doesn’t mean “our” Mass belongs to us and nobody else has a right to be there. You should see how peeved the “regulars” get when the front few rows are reserved for first communicants and they have to sit someplace else.
 
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asquared:
the norm for baptism is during Sunday Mass because of the obvious Easter connection, Easter of course being the premier time for baptism. The entire community is supposed to welcome the newly baptized and support their parents and godparents in forming them in the faith.

I have heard the same complaints about RCIA rites during Masses of Lent, dismissal rite for RCIA, first communions etc. You have fair warning from now until the end of May, first communions at all Masses, but I do promise families are not supposed to take photos or videos during Mass. However there will be some commotion after Mass while Father poses for pictures with them and religious articles are blessed. These are also supposed to be part of regular Sunday Mass.

I have to go along with “get over it” if you understand it means that just because we have a comfort level doesn’t mean “our” Mass belongs to us and nobody else has a right to be there. You should see how peeved the “regulars” get when the front few rows are reserved for first communicants and they have to sit someplace else.
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In our case (last Sunday) exactly half of the church’s pews were marked as reserved for the communicants and their families. But I didn’t hear a sinlge complaint about it after the mass. There was however, a fair amount to chatter concerning that fact that once again the next mass attendants were amassed at (blocking) the doors because the start of their mass was delayed. Time management would go a long way to easing the situation, I think.

One odd thing is that the parish has another building that is used for mass at the times when the “occasionally Catholic” come to mass (Christmas and Easter) and there’s just no room to fit everyone in the church. As I said before, the parish is building a beautiful, larger church to more easily accomodate the 2,000+ families of the parish. Maybe that will solve the crowding problem but the scheduling of things that might extend the mass beyond the normal time will still be there.

BTW, I never get the feeling that anyone is unwelcome in the church. In fact there is a considerable amount of effort devoted to making new people and visitors feel welcome. We happen to be located in a large tourist area and we are very near the airport. There are always visitors at mass they are always welcomed.

IMHO, “Get over it” would have been better said as something like “We need to accept this because …” with a brief explanation perhaps.
 
You know it always puzzles me when people complain when mass takes a little longer, but they cheer when sports games go into extra innings or overtime. That’s ok. We can sit for hours on end during rain delays etc, but give God an extra minute…unheard of!
 
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JohnM:
Time management would go a long way to easing the situation, I think.
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I think it’s wonderful that your parish has baptisms and First Communions during the Sunday Mass. But it would seem that your parish needs to consider changing its Mass times. Maybe they need to start the next Mass 15-30 minutes later so that it’s not a problem if things take longer than usual. Of course any such change is going to upset some group of people. (That’s just the way it is in most parishes.) Maybe your parish will make such a change when the new building is finished. It might be easier to kind of link everything together.
 
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stbruno:
You know it always puzzles me when people complain when mass takes a little longer, but they cheer when sports games go into extra innings or overtime. That’s ok. We can sit for hours on end during rain delays etc, but give God an extra minute…unheard of!
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They might complain if they we’re waiting outside the building to get into another event. It’s human nature to complain. Doesn’t it seem that we always end up in the slowest line at the grocery store or at the gas station? I don’t know about anyone else, but I complain about those things all the time.

It’s not the baptisms or first communions, it’s the unexpected and repeated delays that cause the complaints. At least that’s what I can gather. I don’t know that I disagree either.
 
At my parish it is up to the parents if they want the Baptism during mass. If they do, the last Sunday of each month (noon mass) has the Baptisms.

Otherwise you have to make special arrangements, with a good reason, with the pastor. (military, etc)
 
My parish has over 7000 families registered and will be celebrating first communion on the 17th. The parish has made it very clear in asking for anyone who doesn’t have a friend or family member receiving first communion to please attend one of the overflow masses being offered outdoors in our amphitheatre. Now, of course down here in sunny Arizona it is quite beautiful to attend mass outdoors this time of year.

As far as getting over it, I agree. What better thing to add to a mass than to witness a few baptisms, or first communions? Or in my case, a few hundred.😃 Besides, it is very easy to take a comment like that out of context.
 
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rayne89:
Liturgical Dancers?:eek: Now that is something to be concerned about because that is not allowed during Mass.
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I’m curious. I’ve never seen liturgical dancers, but would they be allowed if they do their thing before mass is officially started?
 
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RichT:
My parish has over 7000 families registered and will be celebrating first communion on the 17th. The parish has made it very clear in asking for anyone who doesn’t have a friend or family member receiving first communion to please attend one of the overflow masses being offered outdoors in our amphitheatre. Now, of course down here in sunny Arizona it is quite beautiful to attend mass outdoors this time of year.

As far as getting over it, I agree. What better thing to add to a mass than to witness a few baptisms, or first communions? Or in my case, a few hundred.😃 Besides, it is very easy to take a comment like that out of context.
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We could easily have outdoor masses here year round too. except maybe in the brutal summer heat. That would certainly be an alternative. But, there is a whole other building that could be used too.

BTW, I just looked at the bulletin and there are 4 more masses scheduled this weekend with first communions. I wonder how many parishoners will change the schedules accordingly? I anticipate the same crowds at the doors trying to get into their mass again. They can’t say they weren’t notified this time.

As far as the dancers go, from what Rayne posted, it seems as if it is OK outside of the mass itself (before or after).
 
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stbruno:
It is not unusual for baptisms to be celebrated during Mass. In fact, it is part of the usual rite of baptism, because the whole Catholic community can welcome the newly baptized into the church. This is a parish celebration, not just a private or family isolated one.
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It is appropriate to do baptisms during the Mass. It is preferred over having a separate ceremony, but when there area many, it’s probably more considerate of the priest to do them outside the context of Mass.

However, telling the people to “get over it” is really out of line.
 
Our parish regularly baptizes infants during our Masses…However, they are usually limited to one…The rest are baptized outside of Mass. We have a very large parish, so there are lots of baptisms…

**I love to see baptisms during Mass, and really don’t mind the extra time…I think it is wonderful to share that Moment with the baby and his/her family. But…as I said, we don’t do a “bunch” duriing Mass. **
 
Detroit Sue:
It is appropriate to do baptisms during the Mass. It is preferred over having a separate ceremony, but when there area many, it’s probably more considerate of the priest to do them outside the context of Mass.

However, telling the people to “get over it” is really out of line.
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I agree that the pastor missed a catechetical moment in not explaining the doctrinal basis for baptism, in fact all sacraments of initiation, to take place during Mass. this is something people have lost sight of and the priest should have used this to educate people in the pew.

Having baptisms during Sunday Mass goes beyond being considerate, it has to do with being canonical and doctrinally correct. Practicality does come into play, especially in a small extremely overcrowded Church like ours which already has the maximum number of allowed Masses.
 
Attending mass today has prompted me to revisit this old thread. Just as an update, the baptisms continue as part of the Sunday masses in this parish. In fact, there were 10 children baptized today. Just when I thought I might be getting used to how things work here, another surprise was in store. 9 of the children were baptized in the usual way. The priest still has the entire church repeat the renunciation of Satan and all his works, which used to be something only the Godparents would say. I have gotten used to that too, although it’s sort of lost it’s impact I think.
The latest surprise was that 10th child who was bapized via full immersion. He was none too happy about it and wet everyone in range including the priest. The priest announced that at our new church (yet to be opened) the font will be about 2 1/2 feet deep and big enough for adult immersions with the priest standing inside it too.
The only other time I’ve personally seen this is at a Baptist church. What do you good folks think of all this? Is this a general trend in the Church. How does your parish handle Baptisms?
 
I like the idea of immersion for Baptism. I know it’s not any more valid than pouring, but I think it best represents the symbolism of dying and coming from the tomb, rising anew.

At a catechists conference we also looked at how other richly symbolic parts of our Sacraments sometimes are not fully taken advantage of. The oils for instance, used to be lavishly used to annoint, the perfume filling the air at Vigil masses. Making things lavish isn’t required but, why not? These signs instituted by Christ to give grace, don’t need to be understated IMO. As one protestant friend of mine noted after attending the funeral of a priest, “You Catholics do ceremony so well, the rites are really such a wonderful way to celebrate life and faith.”

My youngest son was baptized during our regular Sunday Mass. I was given the choice of immersion and opted for it. My other sons were not immersed. I certainly don’t think they are less baptized. I did think the experiment our parish priest tried of having all the children of the year baptized at Easter Vigil was a mistake. This was the practice with my second son, 15 years ago. NIGHTMARE. Not the best time to have 20 babies at church. I felt bad for the catechumens and candidates from RCIA. Their big day was filled with lots of crying and crankiness -on just about everyone’s part. I think he was trying to implement some training or preparation for the parents, which is a great idea, but having it in a big group was a flop.

My oldest son’s baptism was scheduled after Mass. The priest seemed in a hurry, definitely not into any grand ceremony, and we felt like we got the bum’s rush. There again, he’s still just as baptized, but we need ceremony and ritual celebrations. The Church knows that is why Christ gave them to us.

It’s the same I guess with the Liturgy. Short and sweet with no frills is valid, but if we’re really celebrating we should show it.
 
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JohnM:
Attending mass today has prompted me to revisit this old thread. Just as an update, the baptisms continue as part of the Sunday masses in this parish. In fact, there were 10 children baptized today. Just when I thought I might be getting used to how things work here, another surprise was in store. 9 of the children were baptized in the usual way. The priest still has the entire church repeat the renunciation of Satan and all his works, which used to be something only the Godparents would say. I have gotten used to that too, although it’s sort of lost it’s impact I think.
The latest surprise was that 10th child who was bapized via full immersion. He was none too happy about it and wet everyone in range including the priest. The priest announced that at our new church (yet to be opened) the font will be about 2 1/2 feet deep and big enough for adult immersions with the priest standing inside it too.
The only other time I’ve personally seen this is at a Baptist church. What do you good folks think of all this? Is this a general trend in the Church. How does your parish handle Baptisms?
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Somewhere in another thread I wrote about our baptistery, which used to look like a giant flower pot, and now is encased in rocks and landscaping that actually looks pretty good and blends in with the church’s classic decor. It is also better mounted to the floor, as several toddlers (among them my elder grandchild) almost knocked the thing over in an effort to avoid “the bathtub”. Our grandchildren were not immersed.

Nobody is forced into immersion in our parish. Catechumen have opted for immersion at Easter Vigil. They have worn everything from modest white capris and two t-shirts, to modest swim suits. Infants are immersed nakey. There are towels handed round. The adult newly baptized go change into something more appropriate. The babies are taken away and dressed more often than not in christening gear. Candles are not lit until after the Eucharist Thanksgiving.

If you’re expecting more children and would prefer the image out of the Faith and Freedom readers- you know, Mother and Daddy standing by as the godparents hold Baby Mary while David, Ann and Timmy look on, a baptismal font that resembles a well-carved bird bath, and the priest pouring over immersing- for pity sakes, SAY SOMETHING!!! You do not have to have immersion!!! And if this is the only choice offered, either pitch a stink the chancery’s way, or find another parish.
 
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OutinChgoburbs:
Somewhere in another thread I wrote about our baptistery, which used to look like a giant flower pot, and now is encased in rocks and landscaping that actually looks pretty good and blends in with the church’s classic decor. It is also better mounted to the floor, as several toddlers (among them my elder grandchild) almost knocked the thing over in an effort to avoid “the bathtub”. Our grandchildren were not immersed.

Nobody is forced into immersion in our parish. Catechumen have opted for immersion at Easter Vigil. They have worn everything from modest white capris and two t-shirts, to modest swim suits. Infants are immersed nakey. There are towels handed round. The adult newly baptized go change into something more appropriate. The babies are taken away and dressed more often than not in christening gear. Candles are not lit until after the Eucharist Thanksgiving.

If you’re expecting more children and would prefer the image out of the Faith and Freedom readers- you know, Mother and Daddy standing by as the godparents hold Baby Mary while David, Ann and Timmy look on, a baptismal font that resembles a well-carved bird bath, and the priest pouring over immersing- for pity sakes, SAY SOMETHING!!! You do not have to have immersion!!! And if this is the only choice offered, either pitch a stink the chancery’s way, or find another parish.
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What? We are long past child bearing time so we are now observers of other folks’ children being baptized. Immersion is something that I’m not used to seeing. Infusion was the only way to go as far as I can remember.
Maybe you missed the start of the thread when I posted that the last time someone brought up the subject of baptisms during Sunday mass the priest’s responded at the next Sunday’s mass with “Get over it”. I wouldn’t expect much of a different response if I brought it up this time.
This is just one of the “odd” things (to me) that happen here in this new parish. I don’t know if it’s because the priests are La Sallette or what’s going on but it seems that they never run out of surprises. here are a few:
Offeratory procession where the whole church walks up the center aisle to drop their envelopes, money, or bags of food into wicker baskets ot the foot of the alter.
The Lord’s Prayer using Orans position and linking of hands.
Liturgical dancers during some masses.
Before the benediction, the priest asks for any visitors, brithdays, anniversaries, etc. follwed by resounding applause for each.
There are others as well. Now I’m trying not to pass judgement but these are just things I am not used to seeing. I don’t know if they are wrong or just different. That’s why I thought I’d ask what other people are experiencing in their own churches. Maybe my former parish just wasn’t up to date. I’m just a bit confused and that’s not a good place to be because I know who benefits from confusion about the Church.
 
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JohnM:
What? We are long past child bearing time so we are now observers of other folks’ children being baptized. Immersion is something that I’m not used to seeing. Infusion was the only way to go as far as I can remember.
Maybe you missed the start of the thread when I posted that the last time someone brought up the subject of baptisms during Sunday mass the priest’s responded at the next Sunday’s mass with “Get over it”. I wouldn’t expect much of a different response if I brought it up this time.
This is just one of the “odd” things (to me) that happen here in this new parish. I don’t know if it’s because the priests are La Sallette or what’s going on but it seems that they never run out of surprises. here are a few:
Offeratory procession where the whole church walks up the center aisle to drop their envelopes, money, or bags of food into wicker baskets ot the foot of the alter.
The Lord’s Prayer using Orans position and linking of hands.
Liturgical dancers during some masses.
Before the benediction, the priest asks for any visitors, brithdays, anniversaries, etc. follwed by resounding applause for each.
There are others as well. Now I’m trying not to pass judgement but these are just things I am not used to seeing. I don’t know if they are wrong or just different. That’s why I thought I’d ask what other people are experiencing in their own churches. Maybe my former parish just wasn’t up to date. I’m just a bit confused and that’s not a good place to be because I know who benefits from confusion about the Church.
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The problem with most catholics is that they can’t accept change. I can understand it’s hard,you are used to one thing and it changes. But we must pray and trust in the Lord, he will guide us to what’s right. That offeratory thing you mentioned is kind of strange… but then again i’ve seen stranger things…
I don’t see the problem with holding hands as it shows we are one church, not just individuals alone.
That priest shouldn’t have said Get over it, merely explained about celebration with a community. The sacraments should be celebrated with a community (with the exception of confession, unless it’s a mass to prepare you for individual confession). Who wouldn’t want to share in that joy of celebrating with this baby who will grow into a follower of Christ?

And the thing about people waiting for the rest of mass to go on( normal mass) where do you have to go? Is there somewhere more important you have to be instead of with the Lord?
(My thoughts)
Peace,
Podo
 
It was something brand new (in my Parish) when my youngest was Baptized during the Mass (1988). At first I did not like the Idea but as the day approached and I thought it more, it was beautiful to be witness to the newest, littlest members of the Catholic Church.
 
Let me try to explain some of the confusion. I don’t mind sitting through all the baptisms, communions, dancers, appaluse, etc… The concern I have is where did this all come from? For me it was out of the blue. I would feel the same way if I went to mass in a new church only to find that it was being conducted the way it was in the 1950s. Is it wrong? I don’t know.
From speaking with some of the long time parishoners, I gather that these changes have, for the most part, been implemented with the arrival of the new pastor, in the past 2 years. They say there were no explanations given only that the pastor thinks that Vatican II has directed that things be done his way. To my way of thinking, this is a hollow explanation at best.
It’s been my experience that when someone starts a sentence with “According to Vatican II”, I am usually talking to (or more often being talked at by) a reformist and the best course of action is often to head for the hills.
That being said, I don’t think that my old parish and this new one can both be doing things correctly. This new parish often leaves me with the feeling that I have been to a baptism, communion, or dance recital with the hint of a mass squeezed in there somewhere.
Just as a note, I was back at my old parish (another part of the country) and after mass, I happened to bring this same subject up to the priest there. He shook his head and said that he doesn’t understand why this would be done so often. He said a few times a year would be OK but not as often as my new parish does it. He did seem interested in how long it takes to do the Offeratory procession. I’ll have to keep checking to see if they implement that at the old parish. I think it would go over like a lead balloon though.
It’s not “the problem with Catholics is that they can’t accept change”, it’s more like common coutesy would dictate that a simple explaination of the reason for the change is better than an ambush, no? I dread going to mass and seeing a dozen or so pews with the “Reserved” signs draped on them. I know they’ll likely be mostly filled with people I haven’t seen in church before and I probably won’t see again until they have another child that they “promise” to bring up in the ways of the Church.
Don’t get me started on the names these good folks choose for their little ones. We had a Dakota and a Nonosuelta (sp?) to name two yesterday.
I hope I explained some of my confusion. Change may be inevitable but it’s not always good.
 
If infant baptisms are normally done during regular masses at this parish, then wouldn’t they be done as OFTEN as a baby arrived? I don’t think people can schedule to have their babies only certain times of the year, or not as often. I don’t understand your point here. I guess if they are having lots of bapisms then they are having lots of babies. Sounds like a vibrant and growing parish to me. Much better than old and dying out. Gosh do you even have some families with 6-7 kids? Sounds great to me. You hardly see that anymore.

You stated earlier that there was an abundance of groups and lots of active participation in them. But I still get the idea that you don’t like the level of involvement. What kind of explanation do you think would be appropriate to ease your mind? Do you want the priest to specifically explain why it is an active parish? I’m not trying to be dense, I just don’t get where you are headed with this.
 
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