Baptism for RCIA student

[NightRider]

catsrus:

Hi Stormy! I’m one of the converts that had “irregularities” galore! I began RCIA 2/99 and was confirmed 8/02. I spent 3 months in Pre-Cat and the rest as a Candidate. I hungered for the Eucharist for a long time but, please believe me, it was soooo worth the wait. Ask your priest about the baptism of desire. In the meantime, enjoy the catechesis. Though I was in RCIA for 3 entire rounds of topics and instruction, I loved it more each time around because I learned more.

Catsrus, you truly have an attitude of gratitude! and that is exquisite! Thank you for coming home! Many blessings!

 

[Pug]

Stormy:

Nov. 2003, I began RCIA with my church. It takes 18 months. I will not be baptized until Easter 2005.

I do not understand how this wait is biblical?

I can’t answer about an 18 month period in the bible, but I do think the Church is concerned that it do a good job of preparing the person to be a Chrisitian in a hostile world. They want to be sure and communicate all about Jesus and God, etc. They also want to give you time to be formed in Jesus so that if persecution or difficulty comes, you will stand in the faith and can be a witness. Historically, but not since day 1, the Church has asked catecumens to wait a bit before baptism and be prepared and fast and do other such things.

Just think about how long people often wait to become a full nun or brother in an order! Just take this time as time to be conformed more and more to the image of Christ. As soon as you are baptized and confirmed they are going to turn around and ask you to help with the RCIA program or some other such thing, you know

 

[sabrinaofmn]

I’m with you, Stormy, as I don’t understand why you can’t be baptised. If baptism is required to be a Christian, then it seems that you are being kept from being a Christian. My own opinion is the opposite. I believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, but I too was ignorant of that fact, and I was a Christian for many years before I was baptised. Isn’t there some sort of provision for pure ignorance? Baptism wasn’t stressed in my non-denominational church. In fact, I never saw anyone baptised, and I never heard about anyone being baptised. I felt like baptism was a sign to the community that one had become a Christian. I didn’t know anyone in my church because it was a megachurch, thousands of members, so I didn’t see the necessity of having the sign to people who didn’t even know me. Really, it’s kind of sad.

I consider you to be a Christian, as I was. I have read on these forms about baptism of desire, but I too was left uncomfortable about that for my infant son. The priest told me that he would not yet baptise my son because I am in RCIA, but he later changed his mind.

Why can a baby be baptised, but a person confessing the faith cannot? It doesn’t make sense.

I don’t know what to tell you to do, but I will mention you in my prayers tonight.

 

[IPTgrad]

Quote From Sabrinaofmn:
Why can a baby be baptised, but a person confessing the faith cannot? It doesn’t make sense.

The basic reason for this is that the baby is under the direction of the parent & the parent guarantees that the child will be instructed in the faith. An adult, or any child above the “age of reason” can make decisions for himself.

Baptism is so much more than a sign to the community of one’s faith. Baptism is an efficacious sign that confers an indelible mark upon the person’s soul, in a way “branding” that person for Christ. In the case of a person who can think and reason for himself, the dignity of the human person demands that he enter into this relationship with Christ with “eyes wide open,” fully aware of both the rewards and the demands of the relationship.

Stormy, you may be fully ready to accept this relationship, but you must wait for the Church to be ready to receive you in a way that is as wonderful as what you deserve: at the Easter Vigil. The tiem leading up to this is a wonderful time of purification for you & your acceptance of this “delay” is a terrific opportunity to be purified for Christ so you can present yourself fully submissive to His will for you.

Do not allow anything to discourage you. I again ask you to go to your priest and ask for the special prayers and blessings that are available to you as a Catechumen. You will never again in your life have a right to these prayers & they will strengthen you for this journey.

You are already a vital part of our Christian community, and people throughout the world are praying for you and other catechumens… those prayers will intensify as Easter gets nearer… feel God’s presence in all that He is already providing for you & get ready to give yourself fully to Him in just 5 months.

 

[sabrinaofmn]

IPTgrad:

Quote From Sabrinaofmn:
Why can a baby be baptised, but a person confessing the faith cannot? It doesn’t make sense.

The basic reason for this is that the baby is under the direction of the parent & the parent guarantees that the child will be instructed in the faith. An adult, or any child above the “age of reason” can make decisions for himself.

This doesn’t make any sense. You state that a baby’s decision is guided by its parents and an adult can make their own decision - that’s what Stormy wants to do. You indicate that she is part of the Christian community, yet a previous poster said she isn’t a Christian unless she is baptised. Why the wait? Why is she being kept from being a Christian if baptism is required for salvation? If it’s a permanent brand on the sould, then she’s ready to get branded.

I was baptised Methodist, and now I am in RCIA. My baptism is considered valid. The reality is that Stormy could go down and get baptised at her local Methodist church and still be received into the Catholic Church. However, the Catholic Church that she is so eager to join won’t baptise her. Should she seek baptism from a Protestant?

 

[asquared]

Storny’s Catholic church is NOT refusing to baptize her, rather she is being gently prepared for baptism, an irrevocable commitment and promise with many ramifications. It is her right to be properly prepared and understand the commitment she is making. Most programs are two years for the unbaptized (if on a school year plan), but instruction must cover one complete liturgical year, usually beginning right after Easter then initiation at the following Easter (on a year-round model).

One suggestion, be sure you have discussed your marriage situation with the priest or deacon in charge to find out if you need convalidation. This is critical if either you or your husband has ever been married before, even briefly. If not, and you were married civilly, you can have your marriage convalidated. If one of you was married before you MAY need to investigate annulment, which will make the whole thing take even longer, so don’t wait to get all the facts right.

 

[sabrinaofmn]

If baptism is essential to salvation, then I don’t see the need to wait.

Waiting to receive the Eucharist is different, as the Eucharist isn’t necessary for salvation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

What I have seen from my involvment in RCIA for the past 11 years is that even with a years preparation and reflection. Many people fall away from their new found faith when things get difficult or they are opposed by famly and friends. The process has as many possible supports as there can be especially the forming of a Small Christian Community with in the RCIA. I understand that not everyone comes into RCIA at the same spiritual level. But the Church Canon Law requires that adults be Baptized at the Easter Vigil (except for other specific circumstances) because from Apostolic times it was the Bishop who received and Baptized these adults.

I once read about a young man who wanted a monk to teach him how to pray. He would go down to the river bank where the monk prayed every day and ask the monk to teach him to pray. The monk would just ignore him. This continued for several months. One day the monk grabbed the young man and held his head under water. Finally letting the sputtering and gasping young man up. The young man looked at the monk as asked why he did that. The monk replyed, when you want to learn how to pray, as much as you wanted to inhale air just then, coe back and I can then teach you to pray, and the young man understood.

 

[sabrinaofmn]

Br. Rich SFO:

What I have seen from my involvment in RCIA for the past 11 years is that even with a years preparation and reflection. Many people fall away from their new found faith when things get difficult or they are opposed by famly and friends.

People fall away from their faith after 20 years or more. Judas fell away after being right there at Christ’s side.

I still don’t see why baptism should be delayed if it is essential to salvation. That is tantamount to prohibiting a person from becoming a Christian.

Delaying baptism + baptism necessary for salvation = doesn’t make sense.

 

[Stormy]

Hi

To answer the question of marriages in the past… no. My husband and I have only been married once, to each other.

To answer the idea that that this is a personal thing between me and the church, and that I am lacking in my faith. . No, this is how it is with all the RCIA students in our church.

Last night at Bible Study, the group brought the question to the Priest. He spent a long time explaining. He talked of the need to build a faith community within the RCIA group, so that if we had a problem after becoming Catholic, we would have someone to turn to that could help us. He talked how the 18 months was a special time of learning that we will look back on with joy. He talked how waiting for my Easter baptism was good to build up patience and love for God. He said the more I want it, the more I will cling to my faith.

The group still kept at him. They insisted that baptism should take place at the beginning or maybe after a few months or less. Then the RCIA classes could continue with confirmation and communion at Easter.

I could tell that this was either not the way my Priest wanted it, or perhaps in his eyes, it was not good for me. I really like my Priest, and I was not happy with him being put on the spot.(I had asked them not to mention this whole thing)

But there was one question that had to be answered. It was brought to my attention on this very forum.

I opened my mouth to speak, and my voice trembled. I asked him with tears in my eyes…

“Am I a Christian?”

There was no hesitation in his voice…

“Yes! You most certainly are!”

I looked around at everyone and then back at Father Burger…

“Then I can wait.”

 

[iguana27]

sabrinaofmn:

I still don’t see why baptism should be delayed if it is essential to salvation. That is tantamount to prohibiting a person from becoming a Christian.

Delaying baptism + baptism necessary for salvation = doesn’t make sense.

Although I can empathize with Stormy’s struggle to wait, I don’t agree that baptism in water is necessary for salvation. Clearly, according to the CCC, baptism of desire is adequate for her salvation, and the delay is not jeopardizing that salvation.
[1259](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1259.htm’) For *catechumens *who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

 

[Stormy]

Stormy:

Hi

To answer the question of marriages in the past… no. My husband and I have only been married once, to each other.

To answer the idea that that this is a personal thing between me and the church, and that I am lacking in my faith. . No, this is how it is with all the RCIA students in our church.

Last night at Bible Study, the group brought the question to the Priest. He spent a long time explaining. He talked of the need to build a faith community within the RCIA group, so that if we had a problem after becoming Catholic, we would have someone to turn to that could help us. He said the more I want it, the more I will cling to my faith. My Priest said that if anything were to happen to me that I am baptized by desire. He also said if my health were an issue he would baptise me at that point. He talked of how the 18 months was a special time of learning that we will look back on with joy. He talked of how waiting for my Easter baptism was good to build up patience and love for God.

The group still kept at him. They insisted that baptism should take place at the beginning or maybe after a few months or less. Then the RCIA classes could continue with confirmation and communion at Easter.

I could tell that this was either not the way my Priest wanted it, or perhaps in his eyes, it was not good for me. I really like my Priest, and I was not happy with him being put on the spot.(I had asked them not to mention this whole thing)

But there was one question that had to be answered. It was brought to my attention on this very forum.

I opened my mouth to speak, and my voice trembled. I asked him with tears in my eyes…

“Am I a Christian?”

There was no hesitation in his voice…

“Yes! You most certainly are!”

I looked around at everyone and then back at Father Burger…

“Then I can wait.”

 

[Stormy]

My Priest also said that if my health became an issue he would baptise me right away, and if something were to happen to me… I was baptized by desire.

So its all good.
Thanks everyone!

 

[TarAshly]

Congratulations!!! i went through the RCIA as well and mine only took me 9 months it was a time of soul searching education self change and miracles! i was baptized at 20 yrs old! it was the best most spiritual and reverent day of my life! stay strong and stay committed and again congrats!:clapping:

 

[CD4]

NightRider:

Stormy,
I am wondering if you really want to be Catholic?

If you do, then the wait for Baptism is well worth it!

I do not think this is a fair or kind comment. Of course Stormy wants to be Catholic…That is obvious. She has asked a very good question…I believe that 18months is inordinately long…I have been a catechist in the RCIA for a number of years, and have not encoutered this length of time, unless a person has asked to wait longer. I understand Stormy’s frustration. Perhaps she should address this question to her pastor…

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Stormy:

My Priest also said that if my health became an issue he would baptise me right away, and if something were to happen to me… I was baptized by desire.

So its all good.
Thanks everyone!

That is correct. After the Rite of Acceptance you are a “Catechumen” and Baptism of Desire would be a possibility because you made a personal, explicit and public statement of your desire to be Baptized. If you became seriously ill you would be Baptized, Confirmed and receive Holy Communion as well as Annointing of the Sick.

 

[puzzleannie]

stormy is blessed to have the priest instructing her group, while the lay people on the RCIA team have a lot to offer there is no replacement for the pastor’s involvement. He is telling you of the Church’s wisdom over 2000 years, and also its practical experience in the 35 years since the new RCIA has been implemented. It is a real but sad human fact that most often if people are baptized without adequate preparation for living in the Catholic community, they find themselves floundering shortly after, and by two years or so they are gone, looking for another, better, more fulfilling experience of church. Please make up your mind that to become Catholic means to submit to the wisdom of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit. Rule number one: if you do not understand a Church doctirine or practice, it is possible that your understanding is lacking, rather than that the Church is wrong.