Baptism Goofiness

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We recently moved, and have decided to go ahead and register with the local parish instead of driving twenty minutes to the Cathedral like we have been doing.

I’ve only been Catholic about two years, and during that time have only seen two infant baptisms, both at our current parish, and both were done during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. During both baptisms (each celebrated by a different priest), the priest has asked the parents to give him the baby at the end of the rite so he can hold it up a la “The Lion King” and everyone present applauds.

I scoured the rite, and could not find it in the instructions. Am I correct that this is an innovation? It really makes me apprehensive about having our child baptised there if the priests are taking liberties. I don’t want my family/friends/guests to think these things are “OK” - they are not.

Yes, I am aware that as long as the form and matter are correct that it is valid. I just don’t believe we should have to settle for less than exactly what the church prescribes. The phrase “at least it’s a valid baptism” should never have to be said.
 
I think it’s very common that new Christians are welcomed into the parish community with applause. Each priest (or deacon) that has baptized my children has had a slightly different way of doing so, whether in the context of a Mass or a baptism ceremony. They are very holy people and respectful of liturgy. No "Lion King"s, but their personalities are still apparent by *how *they “say the black and do the red.”
 
As long as he’s careful the newborn’s head doesn’t flop forward and occlude the airway… Maybe newborn lion cubs can hold up their heads, newborn humans not so much 🙂
 
Every Baptism I’ve ever seen has concluded by Fr. presenting the new Christian to the community. How the baby is held depends on the priest. Ours just cradles the baby in his arms, facing the community.

In the Marriage Rite you won’t find “I present Mr. & Mrs. John Doe” or “Mary & John Doe” at the end of the wedding ceremony but most weddings I’ve been to have also had the priest present the newly formed family to the community.
 
Generic_Name said:
We recently moved, and have decided to go ahead and register with the local parish instead of driving twenty minutes to the Cathedral like we have been doing.

I’ve only been Catholic about two years, and during that time have only seen two infant baptisms, both at our current parish, and both were done during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. During both baptisms (each celebrated by a different priest), the priest has asked the parents to give him the baby at the end of the rite so he can hold it up a la “The Lion King” and everyone present applauds.

I scoured the rite, and could not find it in the instructions. Am I correct that this is an innovation? It really makes me apprehensive about having our child baptised there if the priests are taking liberties. I don’t want my family/friends/guests to think these things are “OK” - they are not.

Yes, I am aware that as long as the form and matter are correct that it is valid. I just don’t believe we should have to settle for less than exactly what the church prescribes. The phrase “at least it’s a valid baptism” should never have to be said.
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If you have scoured the rite, then you know that throughout the rite, there are a variety of options that are left to the celebrant’s discretion. At the conclusion of the rite, all gathered may sing a song. The baby maybe taken before the image of the Blessed Virgin, if that is a custom of that community. There is nothing that says everyone is to turn and rush out the instant that the rite is over. There is no prohibition from the celebrant presenting the newly baptised to the congregation. To read that into the rite is to be overly strict on the reading of rubrics.
 
Phemie said:
Every Baptism I’ve ever seen has concluded by Fr. presenting the new Christian to the community. How the baby is held depends on the priest. Ours just cradles the baby in his arms, facing the community.

In the Marriage Rite you won’t find “I present Mr. & Mrs. John Doe” or “Mary & John Doe” at the end of the wedding ceremony but most weddings I’ve been to have also had the priest present the newly formed family to the community.
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True. But, I think one could make the argument that in the context of the Rite of Marriage, as well as a baptism celebrated outside Mass, such a ‘presentation’ would be taking place outside the liturgy (that is, after the liturgy has concluded). As such, there’s no problem with this, per se, since it’s not an ‘addition’. (We could make the case that it’s not fitting, if it’s a full-on “Lion King” thing, or even that it’s silly for the priest or deacon to take the infant from his parents’ arms, of course.)

On the other hand, in the situation of a baptism that takes place in the context of Mass, given that the baptism happens between the Liturgies of the Word and of the Eucharist, the case could be made that this is an addition to the liturgy (which would make it (somewhat?) illicit).

And yeah: I’ve seen plenty of baptisms in which no explicit presentation of the newly-baptized to the congregation occurs. At the end of the baptismal rite, if you’re not already aware that a new member of the community is present… well, then you haven’t really been paying attention. 😉
 
In terms of concerns with “liturgical abuse,” I can think of bigger hills to die on than this one.
 
In our parish, I think there are only 4 times that the priest touches the child: Sign of the Cross on the forehead, Laying of the hands, Pouring of the water and Anointing with oil. No Lion King gestures here. We never have baptism rites within the mass. Applause is after the baptism rites (Sundays only) and is for all those who were baptized that day.
 
Dove1 said:
In our parish, I think there are only 4 times that the priest touches the child: Sign of the Cross on the forehead, Laying of the hands, Pouring of the water and Anointing with oil. No Lion King gestures here. We never have baptism rites within the mass. Applause is after the baptism rites (Sundays only) and is for all those who were baptized that day.
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In our parish Baptism is by both pouring and immersion if the parents prefer. So the priest has quite a bit of contact with the baby. Some are better at it than others.

We had one older priest, a grandfatherly type, who could swoop a baby through the water three times, getting every part wet except the face. He was an uncle many times over, had held hundreds of babies over the decades and was super comfortable doing so.

His immediate successor handled babies like they were sticks of dynamite with a short fuse that has already been lit.

Our just-deceased Pastor was closer to the grandfather than the explosive expert. I’m not sure where on the spectrum the administrator who was just appointed is going to fall. Haven’t had a chance to discuss with him whether or not he’s comfortable with immersion.
 
Thank you for your insights, folks. I’m not going to enter into endless debates on any of this, but I do appreciate your responses.
 
Our parish has baptisms of babies either between Masses or after the last Mass of the day. They don’t take place during the Mass. Often there are several families and several infants who are baptized. With no congregation present, there would be no point to holding the child up for everyone to see.
 
JimG said:
Our parish has baptisms of babies either between Masses or after the last Mass of the day. They don’t take place during the Mass. Often there are several families and several infants who are baptized. With no congregation present, there would be no point to holding the child up for everyone to see.
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I know that this is an acceptable practice, but it is one I wish would be changed.

I feel that Baptisms, for the most part, should be done in the context of Mass and not some private event. We are welcoming a child into the Church, it should, at least in my humble opinion, be cause for the whole parish to celebrate.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
I know that this is an acceptable practice, but it is one I wish would be changed.

I feel that Baptisms, for the most part, should be done in the context of Mass and not some private event. We are welcoming a child into the Church, it should, at least in my humble opinion, be cause for the whole parish to celebrate.
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Well, new baptisms are published in the monthly newsletter, as are new families joining the parish. We are blessed to have quite a few young families who are having children. Probably the number of baptisms would preclude having them during Mass.

My old parish in another city does have baptisms during Mass, but it is a parish with aging parishioners and few baptisms. I would love for us to get to the point where families with five or more children are not uncommon, whether or not they have the baptisms during Mass.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
I know that this is an acceptable practice, but it is one I wish would be changed.

I feel that Baptisms, for the most part, should be done in the context of Mass and not some private event. We are welcoming a child into the Church, it should, at least in my humble opinion, be cause for the whole parish to celebrate.
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But the Introduction to Rite says, “On Sunday, baptism may be celebrated even during Mass, so that the entire community may be present and the relationship between baptism and eucharist may be clearly seen; but this should not be done too often.”

It also says, “If possible, baptism should take place on Sunday, the day on which the Church celebrates the paschal mystery. It should be conferred in a communal celebration in the presence of the faithful, or at least of relatives, friends, and neighbors, who are all to take an active part in the rite.” The Rite for Baptism Outside Mass includes a Liturgy of the Word.
 
Phemie said:
But the Introduction to Rite says, “On Sunday, baptism may be celebrated even during Mass, so that the entire community may be present and the relationship between baptism and eucharist may be clearly seen; but this should not be done too often.”

It also says, “If possible, baptism should take place on Sunday, the day on which the Church celebrates the paschal mystery. It should be conferred in a communal celebration in the presence of the faithful, or at least of relatives, friends, and neighbors, who are all to take an active part in the rite.” The Rite for Baptism Outside Mass includes a Liturgy of the Word.
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I know this.

I still think that it should be done during Mass whenever possible.
I think it’s good for the community.
I live in a place where funerals out pace Baptisms 4 to 1 in most parishes.
Many couples, even those raised Catholic, do not see the need to Baptize their children. I think doing it the context of Mass is a great witness.

With all that said, if and when I become Pope, I will make the change. Until then, I will accept whatever the pastor chooses to do. ;)😛
 
Oneofthewomen said:
I know this.

I still think that it should be done during Mass whenever possible.
I think it’s good for the community.
I live in a place where funerals out pace Baptisms 4 to 1 in most parishes.
Many couples, even those raised Catholic, do not see the need to Baptize their children. I think doing it the context of Mass is a great witness.

**With all that said, if and when I become Pope, I will make the change. Until then, I will accept whatever the pastor chooses to do. ;):**p
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Reminds me of a joke I heard in the 1960s in the days following Vatican II:

At Vatican II ,the cardinals attended
At Vatican III, the cardinals will bring their wives
At Vatican IV ,the cardinals will bring their husbands!!
 
coachdennis said:
Reminds me of a joke I heard in the 1960s in the days following Vatican II:

At Vatican II ,the cardinals attended
At Vatican III, the cardinals will bring their wives
At Vatican IV ,the cardinals will bring their husbands!!
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This is a disgusting post.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
This is a disgusting post.

-Tim-
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Whoa!! Don’t think I would go that far Tim, it’s all in good fun. :o

He was replying to a funny comment I made. It’s a very old joke, and the first time I heard it was from a Bishop. :eek: :rolleyes:

I think you need to lighten up a little, no harm was meant.
 
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