Baptism in the Spirit and Contemplation

[JimR-OCDS]

Let’s look at the Sacred Scriptures.
John 20:19-22
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.”

Acts 1:3-5,8
While meeting with them, he enjoined them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for “the promise of the Father” about which you have heard me speak; for John baptized with water, but *in a few days you will be baptized with the holy Spirit." *
"But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Jesus rose from the dead, appeared to his disciples who were in hiding out of fear & he breathed the Holy Spirit on them. 40 days later he told them that the Holy Spirit “the promise of the Father” would come upon them & that THEY WOULD RECEIVE POWER.

On the day of Pentecost, again the disciples were “gathered together in one place”. Was this out of fear again? Was it out of expectation of “the promise of the Father”? Was it out of the need for community & comfort?

If they were still in fear & not in the “peace” of which Jesus breathed on them, then at the moment that they were “baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Christ’s words exactly), they were “FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT” & began to make bold proclamations as the Spirit promted them to do so.

Acts 2:1-4
When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together. And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind, and it filled the entire house in which they were. Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire, which parted and came to rest on each one of them.** And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues,** as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.

Interesting that the promise of the Father’s first action among his people was to enable them to speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:10, Rom 8:26-27 "In the same way, the Spirit too comes to the aid of our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings. And the one who searches hearts knows what is the intention of the Spirit, because it intercedes for the holy ones according to God’s will.")

These things all directly from Sacred Scripture.
Is there a scripture passage relating to “contemplative prayer”?

Would that the disciples having the Holy Spirit “breathed on them” = The INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit, still be in fear until the day of Pentecost & the “baptizm of the Holy Spirit” = the FULL MANIFESTATION of “the promise of the Father”, have not prayed or prayed in contemplation these 10 days not having an understanding of being “baptised in the Holy Spirit” until the 10th day? And on the promised day, being “filled with the Holy Spirit” & no longer cowering in fear, but now filled with “POWER” Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you"

Where is the scripture passage or cathecism or church document, or dogma that tells of receiving “power” when you are in “contemplative prayer”?
.

The events of the scripture quotations you have given, are what contemplation is.

As Father Keating describes it;

In general it means that the Seven Gifts of the Spirit, in particular the contemplative gifts of wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, have taken over one’s prayer

If you’re looking for the word, “contemplation” in Scripture, you will not find it, just as you won’t find the word, “Trinity.” However, Scripture gives us the understanding of both and both are embraced by the Holy Church.

BTW, you are away that St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila, are doctors of the Church, aren’t you?
Do yourself a favor, read their books. They provide all the quotes from Scripture to support their teaching on contemplation.

Jim

 

[Joysong]

Hi Pani Rose,

Oh my, it is absolutely a delight to meet someone else who read and treasured Hind’s Feet! I had forgotten where I gained the imagery I used about climbing the mountain and seeing things with a clear perspective. After seeing your post, I returned to my book and spent a lot of joyful time today reading some of my favorite pages.

From these slopes, too, they were able to look down on the valleys below, and from that new viewpoint gain an understanding of many things which had been puzzling and mysterious to them before. From beneath, they had not seen clearly, and even then only a small part had been visible.

Sometimes, as she looked on the glorious panorama visible from these lowest slopes in the Kingdom of Love, she found herself blushing as she remembered some of the dogmatic statements which she and others had made in the depths of the valley about the High Places and ranges of Truth. They had been able to see so little and were so unconscious of what lie beyond and above.

I think this is what I tried to convey, and this lovely imagery helps me to let it pass when I see that someone is expressing a limited point of view in which they have sincere belief in its truthfulness.

This is one of the most beautiful parables I have ever read, and I highly recommend it.

Carole

 

[Pani_Rose]

Hey Carole,

I was wondering if you were referencing that in your statements before this. It always stays in the back of my mind too. IT helped so much when we began this walk with our Lord oh so many years ago.

My daughter, who is now 25, for whatever reason I have never given it to her to read. She has an awesome faith and acts on it, but I think reading this would be such a wonderful help to her and her friends. Soo…being it is Christmas, I think I will find her - well the boys too - one and place it under the tree.

Thanks for the reminder of those beautiful words!

 

[InLight247]

Pani Rose and Joysong, great posts!

I really like the mountain climbing analogy.

I have no clue what the Transforming Union is like, but I know it must make any other prayer experience pale.

God calls each individual in an unique way. It really does not matter if baptism in the Spirit is equal or similar to certain stage of contemplation. One can only do his best to follow God’s lead.

 

[InLight247]

… I think Father’s main point in this chapter is to stress that ALL souls are called to contemplation and those who find themselves drawn toward the charismatic should not feel they are somehow outside the “traditional” contemplative tradition. Their experience should naturally lead one toward contemplation.

Dave.

Thanks, Dave.
I agrre. I actually re-read the whole chapter after your post. Based on all discussions and my own thoughts, I believe I have the answer to my original question.

I am struggling with some other questions I like to ask you, but I have hard time to put them in words.

Later.

 

[Pani_Rose]

IN Light one of the characters in the book is ‘Much Afraid’ they don’t use names as we would think of names. But the names of the characters help us to reflect in a greater way the struggles in our lives because we can relate to those times when we were/are ‘much afraid’. She uses many names in this way, I think it is what makes the book so endearing.

 

[InLight247]

IN Light one of the characters in the book is ‘Much Afraid’ they don’t use names as we would think of names. But the names of the characters help us to reflect in a greater way the struggles in our lives because we can relate to those times when we were/are ‘much afraid’. She uses many names in this way, I think it is what makes the book so endearing.

Thanks and thanks for the link you provided earlier.
I have lot of readings to catch up.

 

[InLight247]

originally post by DBT

………….And the Night of Sense, according to St. John of the Cross’ teaching, is where true infused/contemplative prayer begins………

Dave,

I understand the night of sense is to do with “Difficulty in discursive meditation, boredom with spiritual exercises, and restlessness…… etc.” Anything else?
It sounds like the prerequisite of infused contemplation. And it sounds like it unavoidably happens in one’s prayer life. Is that so?
How do you decide if it is the night of sense or if it is just an occasional slackness or a temporary down time?
Does it have to last a period of time to be considered as “dark night of sense?
Could one go through such a period without realizing it?

I’ll stop here for now. Thanks in advance.

 

[Joysong]

InLight:

I have no clue what the Transforming Union is like, but I know it must make any other prayer experience pale.

Although the chapter from which I pulled that quote speaks of transforming union for Much-Afraid, truly none of us are there yet. But even on some of the ‘lower slopes’ of the mountain range, one is able to grasp certain truths that were hidden from one’s understanding previously.

God calls each individual in an unique way. It really does not matter if baptism in the Spirit is equal or similar to certain stage of contemplation. One can only do his best to follow God’s lead

It was beautiful timing that Fr. Corapi spoke last night about our Catholic unity in essentials, that is very often colored by diversity in spirituality. This reminded me of Dave’s earlier post:

I read the pages immediately before and after this quote and here’s my take on what Father is saying: the Baptism in the Spirit is not a contemplative experience per se but it is one path of many leading to it.

We need to respect that God’s call to each soul is unique and avoid the temptation to cast everyone in the same mold. I sensed that RoyJr would have all be baptised in the Spirit or they are not good ‘catholics.’

 

[Joysong]

Hi Pani Rose,

Wonderful idea about putting this treasure under the Christmas tree! We could almost have a separate thread on Hind’s Feet, and maybe this will spark one later on when others have read it.

It was so good to read yesterday about the terrible mist — that stage where Much-Afraid floundered the most on the entire journey. She was no longer conscious of going either upward or back down the mountain, but was wandering blindly in a circle seemingly going nowhere, and being unable to see anything clearly because of the thick mist. She thought she had lost the way. That is when we most need to trust the Shepherd! And believe that all is well. The line that impressed me was when she discovered her remedy to get through it was to sing!

 

[InLight247]

Hi Pani Rose,

… The line that impressed me was when she discovered her remedy to get through it was to sing!

“To sing” is to praise God with a spirit of joy, gratitude and trust.
Like the book “Power of Praise” said, there is indeed power in praise. I guess the author probably has this in mind when wrote the plot.

 

[Pani_Rose]

“To sing” is to praise God with a spirit of joy, gratitude and trust.
Like the book “Power of Praise” said, there is indeed power in praise. I guess the author probably has this in mind when wrote the plot.

Yes, those were my thoughts to on Joysong’s post Kind of fits her name

It is truly entering into the praise of God that we are freed. For Scripture says he **INHABITS THE PRAISES OF HIS PEOPLE **(Psalms 22:3). In other words, God “dwells” in the PRESENCE OF OUR LOVE FOR HIM - SPOKEN/PRAYED IN WORDS of His praise. Therefore when we praise God it is not just because we came into His presence. Praise is a ‘tool or vehicle’ of faith that brings us into the presence and power of God!

The psalmist writes, “Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name” (Psalms 100:4). Praise and worship is in a way - an eye of the needle that allows us to enter the gate and pass through to enter the sacredness of His glory. Just as it occured with Paul and Silas when they were in prisoned in chains…
*Acts 16:23-26 “And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
(24) Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks. **
(25) And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
(26) And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one’s bands were loosed.”

***That is what St. Teresa, St. Francis, St. John of the Cross did. They all spent time thanking and loving God for all he is. Our words can never be adequate, but then God in his manifest glory enters in with his grace, empowering us to love him. They all spent time in the praise of worship of God. For example
Canticle of the Creatures or the Canticle of Brother Sun

**A poem written in stages by St. Francis of Assisi from the period of the summer of 1225 till his death on October 4, 1226 **

Most high, almighty, and good Lord,
Yours is the praise, the glory, honor, blessing all.
To you, Most High, alone of right they do belong,
And no mortal man is fit to mention you.
Be praised, my Lord, of all your creature world,
And first of all Sir Brother Sun,
Who brings the day, and light you give to us through him,
And beautiful is he, agleam with mighty splendor:
Of you, Most High, he gives us indication.
Be praised, my Lord, through Sisters Moon and Stars:
In the heavens you have formed them,
bright and fair and precious.
Be praised, my Lord, through Brother Wind,
Through Air, and cloudy, clear, and every kind of Weather,
By whom you give your creatures sustenance.
Be praised, my Lord, through Sister Water,
For greatly useful, lowly, precious, chaste is she.
Be praised, my Lord, through Brother Fire,
Through whom you brighten up the night,
And fair he is, and gay, and vigorous, and strong.
Be praised, O Lord, through our sister Mother Earth,
For she sustains and guides our life,
And yields us diverse fruits, with colored flowers, and grass.
Be praised, my Lord, through those who pardon give for love of you, And bear infirmity and tribulation:
Blessed they who suffer it in peace,
For of you, Most High, they shall be crowned.
Be praised, my Lord, through our Brother Death of Body,
From whom no one among the living can escape.
Woe to those who in mortal sins will die;
Blessed those whom he will find in your most holy graces,
For the second death will do no harm to them.
Praise and bless my Lord, and thank him too,
And serve him all, in great humility.

 

[Joysong]

Hi InLight,

While I haven’t read the book you mentioned, I remembered the power in songs of praise that the chosen people sang prior to overcoming their enemy. (2 Chronicles 20:21) (Also called Paralipomenon in many bibles)

And he gave counsel to the people and appointed the singing men of the Lord to praise him, and to go before the army, and with one voice to say, "Give glory to the Lord, for his mercy endures forever. And when they began to sing praises, the Lord turned their ambushments upon themselves, that is to say, of the children of Ammon and of Moab, and those who were come against Juda, and they were slain.

Sometimes, I forget this. Reading these reminders is a wonderful means to renew this practice of rejoicing and praising God in song, for all circumstances! (But especially when walking in the dark)

Edit:

Pani Rose, I was posting and did not see your message until after I submitted mine. Very beautiful! Thank you.

 

[Pani_Rose]

Hi InLight,

While I haven’t read the book you mentioned, I remembered the power in songs of praise that the chosen people sang prior to overcoming their enemy. (2 Chron. 20:21)

Sometimes, I forget this. Reading these reminders is a wonderful means to renew this practice of rejoicing and praising God in song, for all circumstances! (But especially when walking in the dark)

Edit:

Pani Rose, I was posting and did not see your message until after I submitted mine. Very beautiful! Thank you.

Joysong that is the cool thing about posting like this, one realizes we don’t know each other, and heaven knows we are miles and miles apart in distance. Then you know the Holy Spirit is speaking because we are in ‘agreement’ Isn’t God great!

My other post was too long, I wanted to add this to it…

In that same way we are called to ‘enter in’ to his presence in praise and thanksgiving. It is praise, that very ‘vehicle’ that takes us into the silence of contemplation of the glory of our God. It is not an overnight happening, but it comes. I always love these Sciptures from Lamintations…

2:19 Rise up, shrill in the night, at the beginning of every watch; Pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your little ones (Who faint from hunger at the corner of every street). 3:17 My soul is deprived of peace, I have forgotten what happiness is; 18 I tell myself my future is lost, all that I hoped for from the LORD. 19 The thought of my homeless poverty is wormwood and gall; 20 Remembering it over and over leaves my soul downcast within me. 21 But I will call this to mind, as my reason to have hope: 22 The favors of the LORD are not exhausted, his mercies are not spent; 23 They are renewed each morning, so great is his faithfulness. 24 My portion is the LORD, says my soul; therefore will I hope in him. 25 Good is the LORD to one who waits for him, to the soul that seeks him; 55 I called upon your name, O LORD, from the bottom of the pit; 56 You heard me call, “Let not your ear be deaf to my cry for help!” 57 You came to my aid when I called to you; you said, “Have no fear!”

 

[InLight247]

The psalmist writes, “Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name” (Psalms 100:4)

Very interesting that I was thinking about the same Bible verses that is on my office bulletin board:
**“Enter His gates with thanksgiving, His courts with praise; Give thanks to Him, bless His name, for He is good; the Lord, whose kindness endures forever, and His faithfulness, to all generations. (Psalm 100:4-5) **That is part of my daily prayer.

Someone said singing is a double prayer, I believe the truth in it. I often find it lifts my heart and mind while singing or listening some songs of praise.

 

[InLight247]

Dear Joysong, your Bible quotes of 2 Chronicles 20:21 is a great reminder!

The book “Power of Praise” is a great little book I read many many years ago. I think the same author also wrote “From Prison to Praise”. They both are good.

 

[DBT]

Dave,
I understand the night of sense is to do with “Difficulty in discursive meditation, boredom with spiritual exercises, and restlessness…… etc.” Anything else?
It sounds like the prerequisite of infused contemplation. And it sounds like it unavoidably happens in one’s prayer life. Is that so?
How do you decide if it is the night of sense or if it is just an occasional slackness or a temporary down time?
Does it have to last a period of time to be considered as “dark night of sense?
Could one go through such a period without realizing it?

I’ll stop here for now. Thanks in advance.

Hi Inlight -

A lot goes on in the night of sense but I think you hit on some of the key points . . . at least the passive part (ie. difficulty with meditation, desire of solitude etc). When I get home tonight, I’ll take a look at the writings of Fr. Dubay and Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange. They both put together very good summaries of St. John’s teaching . . . perhaps I could put together some bullet points of key thoughts. Or maybe Joysong might feel inspired to chime in

In the meantime, I’ll say this from my own experience as I think it might answer some of your questions:

Several years ago when I became more serious about my faith and began taking an interest in a deeper prayer life, I stumbled upon a wonderful meditation book called “Divine Intimacy” by Fr. Gabriel, OCD. For well over a year, the structured meditation approach he presents was a source of great delight. My daily habit became going to secluded parks near my office each day over lunch to enter into this way of prayer. This was heaven.

Then one day, to my great disappointment, I found that I just couldn’t do these meditations anymore. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t get past a few lines. All I wanted to do was simply watch the tree branches sway in the wind. I wasn’t thinking about anything in particular nor did I think I was praying at all. In fact I actually thought I was wasting time.

This frustrating and restless pattern went on for an entire summer . . . going to the park, opening my book and then closing it to simply watch the trees. Since I had no training in the teaching of John or Teresa at the time, I made many of the “mistakes” the Saints warn against when God begins calling a soul to contemplation. In short, I was resisting the grace He was trying to give. I just wouldn’t allow myself to “be.”

In fact, it took one of those “dramatic moments” discussed in this thread to break me out of this pattern . . . Sept 17, 2002 at 8:30am sitting under the maple tree in the parking lot of my Church God gave me one of those whacks over the head and I instantly “knew” how He wanted me to conduct myself during prayer. But that’s another story entirely . . .

I’ll try and get that list together tonight . . .
Dave.

 

[Joysong]

DBT:

. . . perhaps I could put together some bullet points of key thoughts. Or maybe Joysong might feel inspired to chime in.

Hi Dave,

InLight directed her question to you, and I suppose it was a bit selfish of me to prefer to await your thoughts. I always enjoy reading your posts, and I hoped you would respond. We learn much from one another, and you have a good manner of presentation that makes it easy to understand.

Carole

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Just a point that I think needs to be clarified here. There are two dark nights that St. John wrote about.

The first is the Dark Night of Sense.

This is when we begin to detach from the things that please the appetites. Things that we know we much detach from, in order to move toward union with God. This can be difficult and without grace from God, its almost impossible.

Then we have the Dark Night of the Soul.

This is where we go into spiritual dryness. We no longer receive consultations from the Lord, but as a result, our love is purified. It can be more difficult that the dark night of sense, for by now, our love for God is so strong, that He is all we seek. But yet, it seems as though we are receiving nothing back from God.

Mother Teresa went through a very long Dark Night of the Soul.

I think its either John or Teresa that say this is more difficult than the dark night of the sense, because there is nothing left to turn to, other than Christ. No reading, no amount of meditation, eases the pain. But our love for Christ, being purified, is for Him merely because of who He is.

Also, the two dark nights are not necessarily in logical order. You can go through pieces of both at various times and sometimes together.

So, don’t think that once you’ve figured that you’ve gone through the dark night of sense, that we automatically step into the dark night of the soul. It doesn’t necessarily work in that order.

Jim

 

[TOP]

Just a point that I think needs to be clarified here. There are two dark nights that St. John wrote about.

The first is the Dark Night of Sense.

This is when we begin to detach from the things that please the appetites. Things that we know we much detach from, in order to move toward union with God. This can be difficult and without grace from God, its almost impossible.

Then we have the Dark Night of the Soul.

This is where we go into spiritual dryness. We no longer receive consultations from the Lord, but as a result, our love is purified. It can be more difficult that the dark night of sense, for by now, our love for God is so strong, that He is all we seek. But yet, it seems as though we are receiving nothing back from God.

Mother Teresa went through a very long Dark Night of the Soul.

I think its either John or Teresa that say this is more difficult than the dark night of the sense, because there is nothing left to turn to, other than Christ. No reading, no amount of meditation, eases the pain. But our love for Christ, being purified, is for Him merely because of who He is.

Also, the two dark nights are not necessarily in logical order. You can go through pieces of both at various times and sometimes together.

So, don’t think that once you’ve figured that you’ve gone through the dark night of sense, that we automatically step into the dark night of the soul. It doesn’t necessarily work in that order.

Jim

How do you keep from backsliding during this? Obedience, trust? Is withdrawing from people discouraged? Tim