Baptism in the Spirit?

[chefmomster2]

I have been reading a well-cited, very readable and instructive book by Alan Schrech, The Gift: Discovering the Holy Spirit in Catholic Tradition I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone seeking to learn about the Holy Spirit or wishing to deepen their relationship with Him.

I found the chapter entitled, “The Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church Today”, Ch. 7, of special interest. It covered the renewal of Catholic theology on the Holy Spirit beginning with Vatican II.

I have been baptized and confirmed and I know that in those sacraments we receive the Holy Spirit, His gifts and His fruits. This chapter goes further to speak of a “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”.

“…all Catholics, indeed every person-- is called to receive the Holy Spirit and the Spirit’s gifts and fruits of the Spirit that were first manifest in the Church at Pentecost.”, p. 138.

Pope Benedict XVI: " In this Baptism of the Holy Spirit the personal “I” and the “we” of the church are inseparable. The Holy Spirit consecrates the person and at the same time makes him or her a living member of the Mystical Body of Christ, sharing in the mission of witnessing to his love.", p. 139.

Is this “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” that which we are given in the sacraments of initiation or does it refer to a separate experience of the Spirit?

***Please limit your responses to defining this concept for me. I don’t wish to run afoul of the rules concerning the Charismatic Movement.

 

[FAB]

I have been reading a well-cited, very readable and instructive book by Alan Schrech, The Gift: Discovering the Holy Spirit in Catholic Tradition I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone seeking to learn about the Holy Spirit or wishing to deepen their relationship with Him.

I found the chapter entitled, “The Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church Today”, Ch. 7, of special interest. It covered the renewal of Catholic theology on the Holy Spirit beginning with Vatican II.

I have been baptized and confirmed and I know that in those sacraments we receive the Holy Spirit, His gifts and His fruits. This chapter goes further to speak of a “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”.

Is this “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” that which we are given in the sacraments of initiation or does it refer to a separate experience of the Spirit?

***Please limit your responses to defining this concept for me. I don’t wish to run afoul of the rules concerning the Charismatic Movement.

Being “baptized in the Spirit” is a Charismatic Term. It is a misnomer since through regular Baptism it was with water and the Holy Spirit and in confirmation you were sealed with the spirit to “stir” up the gifts. There IS NO sacrament except as described for “baptism of the Holy Spirit”

As I said this is usually found in the Charismatic Movement by others laying on of hands and calling for the Holy Spirit to instill in the person a gift or gifts as described in Paul’s Letters to the Corinthians.

The same gifts can be received through prayer, giving yourself to God and asking him to give you guidance on how you can best serve His Church with the talents and graces he has given you.

Before I get called out, I was first involved in the Charismatic movement back in the 70’s. It helped me in many ways to find my way. This idea of being “baptized in the Spirit” is a more recent evolution in the movement and in personal opinion causes confusion instead of true Catechism.
Dcn Frank

 

[FrDavid96]

Is this “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” that which we are given in the sacraments of initiation or does it refer to a separate experience of the Spirit?

.

Pope Benedict was speaking about Pentecost in that particular sentence. THE Pentecost 2000 years ago.
He then says this:
“And this is actualized through the sacraments of Christian initiation: baptism and confirmation.”

First, he talks about Pentecost, then he talks about how we experience Pentecost today.

The way we experience it is by the Sacraments of the Church.

He was not talking about any pseudo-sacrament.

His words have been taken out of context to mean something that he clearly did not mean.

Here is the actual text.
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_reg_20080511_pentecoste_en.html

 

[FrDavid96]

Here is the text of his message

The Acts of the Apostles present Pentecost as the fulfillment of this promise and hence as the culmination of Jesus’ entire mission. After his Resurrection, he himself ordered the disciples to stay in Jerusalem, because, he said, “before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1: 5); and he added: “You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth” (Acts 1: 8). Thus Pentecost is in a special way the Baptism of the Church which carries out her universal mission starting from the roads of Jerusalem with the miraculous preaching in humanity’s different tongues. In this Baptism of the Holy Spirit the personal and community dimension, the “I” of the disciple and the “we” of the Church, are inseparable. The Holy Spirit consecrates the person and at the same time makes him or her a living member of the Mystical Body of Christ, sharing in the mission of witnessing to his love. And this takes place through the Sacraments of Christian initiation: Baptism and Confirmation. In my Message for the next World Youth Day 2008, I have proposed to the young people that they rediscover the Holy Spirit’s presence in their lives and thus the importance of these Sacraments. Today I would like to extend the invitation to all: let us rediscover, dear brothers and sisters, the beauty of being baptized in the Holy Spirit; let us recover awareness of our Baptism and our Confirmation, ever timely sources of grace.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_reg_20080511_pentecoste_en.html

 

[FAB]

Here is the text of his message

The Acts of the Apostles present Pentecost as the fulfillment of this promise and hence as the culmination of Jesus’ entire mission. After his Resurrection, he himself ordered the disciples to stay in Jerusalem, because, he said, “before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1: 5); and he added: “You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth” (Acts 1: 8). Thus Pentecost is in a special way the Baptism of the Church which carries out her universal mission starting from the roads of Jerusalem with the miraculous preaching in humanity’s different tongues. In this Baptism of the Holy Spirit the personal and community dimension, the “I” of the disciple and the “we” of the Church, are inseparable. The Holy Spirit consecrates the person and at the same time makes him or her a living member of the Mystical Body of Christ, sharing in the mission of witnessing to his love. And this takes place through the Sacraments of Christian initiation: Baptism and Confirmation. In my Message for the next World Youth Day 2008, I have proposed to the young people that they rediscover the Holy Spirit’s presence in their lives and thus the importance of these Sacraments. Today I would like to extend the invitation to all: let us rediscover, dear brothers and sisters, the beauty of being baptized in the Holy Spirit; let us recover awareness of our Baptism and our Confirmation, ever timely sources of grace.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/angelus/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_reg_20080511_pentecoste_en.html

Thanks Fr. I never Knew were the term or idea came form. Truly he was taking about a one time event at the beginning of the Church. You confirmed what I already know.

 

[Joe_5859]

I have been reading a well-cited, very readable and instructive book by Alan Schrech, The Gift: Discovering the Holy Spirit in Catholic Tradition I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone seeking to learn about the Holy Spirit or wishing to deepen their relationship with Him.

I found the chapter entitled, “The Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church Today”, Ch. 7, of special interest. It covered the renewal of Catholic theology on the Holy Spirit beginning with Vatican II.

I have been baptized and confirmed and I know that in those sacraments we receive the Holy Spirit, His gifts and His fruits. This chapter goes further to speak of a “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”.

Is this “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” that which we are given in the sacraments of initiation or does it refer to a separate experience of the Spirit?

***Please limit your responses to defining this concept for me. I don’t wish to run afoul of the rules concerning the Charismatic Movement.

I would say the answer to your question is “Both”. The former is objective while the latter is subjective. But we should desire both in order for the sacraments to bear fruit in our lives.

Catholic teaching is pretty clear that we receive the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit in Baptism and Confirmation. Yet, those gifts and graces unfold in our lives over time with our cooperation.

That’s what I think of when I think of the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” in terms of the charismatic renewal. The gifts are all objectively given in the sacraments. That’s a given, and the objective piece is foundational. But that doesn’t mean there is no later time where a spark can be ignited and the gifts can become more manifest in our lives. Just go to any Catholic parish. You’ll see lots of baptized and confirmed Catholics who don’t look a whole lot like they are living life in the Spirit. The objective piece is in place, but the subjective one is lacking.

 

[grannymh]

I have been reading a well-cited, very readable and instructive book by Alan Schrech, The Gift: Discovering the Holy Spirit in Catholic Tradition I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone seeking to learn about the Holy Spirit or wishing to deepen their relationship with Him.

I found the chapter entitled, “The Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church Today”, Ch. 7, of special interest. It covered the renewal of Catholic theology on the Holy Spirit beginning with Vatican II.

I have been baptized and confirmed and I know that in those sacraments we receive the Holy Spirit, His gifts and His fruits. This chapter goes further to speak of a “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”.

Is this “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” that which we are given in the sacraments of initiation or does it refer to a separate experience of the Spirit?

***Please limit your responses to defining this concept for me. I don’t wish to run afoul of the rules concerning the Charismatic Movement.

The definition for the Sacrament of Baptism is as it always was. (CCC, 1213-1284)

"Baptism of the Holy Spirit refers to a prayer experience or prayer ritual which often accompanied adult Sacrament of Baptism in the early Church. In general terms, this separate prayer experience dedicated the catechumen’s life to Our Lord Jesus Christ by actions according to His will. Today, there are also separate prayers accompanying the Sacrament of Baptism, such as the Renouncement of Satan and all his works.

I am not qualified to directly address Catholic theology on the Holy Spirit. However, here are some common concepts. Christ promised the Holy Spirit to His Church in Chapter 14, Gospel of John. Pentecost, often considered the birth of the Catholic Church, is in Acts 2: 1-4. Descriptions of the Holy Spirit’s involvement, including His numerous gifts, follow in Acts and the Epistles.

In the Catholic Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation, we receive the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit. The Isaiah gifts (Isaiah 11: 1-3) are often cited with the Sacrament of Confirmation. We need to seek and use the gifts which the Holy Spirit gave us as individuals. How often do we deliberately take the time to pray to the Holy Spirit, asking Him to renew His gifts and graces in our lives? And how often do we actually use them?

The Sacrament of Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases Original Sin so that the baptized person is now in the State of Sanctifying Grace, sharing in the Divine life of the Trinity. (CCC, 405; CCC, Glossary, Sanctifying Grace, page 898) As said above, we receive gifts and graces in this precious Sacrament. In the early Church, what is now known as baptism of the Spirit or of the Holy Spirit, was the adult catechumen’s acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit and His working in an individual’s life. It was the personal commitment to follow Jesus wherever He would lead. The Sacrament of Baptism is primary.

In my humble opinion, what happened between the early years and Vatican II would be off topic. Sticking to the concept that the Catholic baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate and secondary, we find the Holy Spirit bringing back into our lives His tremendous graces. This is a descriptive phrase – we are to stir up the gifts of the Holy Spirit originally given to us in Baptism and Confirmation. The additional prayer experience is our Amen to Our Lord.

No one can ever call the Holy Spirit stingy. Not only does the Holy Spirit give us the grace to renew our Catholic lives, He, unexpectedly brought back to the Catholic Church, the gifts given to St. Paul and the early Catholics. These gifts are meant to renew the Catholic Church by renewing our own spiritual lives. Being faithful active Catholics is one of the goals.

Here are some excellent information links. The first link describes baptism in the Spirit, prayer tongues, and the classical charismatic gifts listed by St. Paul. In addition, the Holy Spirit gives us gifts to suit our personality. Recall the teachings on the Mystical Body of Christ.

brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

Regarding the quote from Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. I would need to understand the context before commenting. It sounds like both the Sacrament and the separate prayer experience are being viewed. A full understanding of this is what separates the Catholic Charismatic Renewal from all other “similar”, but not the same, movements.

Questions? You can always PM me.

 

[FAB]

Regarding the quote from Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. I would need to understand the context before commenting. It sounds like both the Sacrament and the separate prayer experience are being viewed. A full understanding of this is what separates the Catholic Charismatic Renewal from all other “similar”, but not the same, movements.

I think the quote is clear

Thus Pentecost is in a special way the **Baptism of the Church **which carries out **her universal mission starting from the roads of Jerusalem **with the miraculous preaching in humanity’s different tongues. In

this Baptism

of the Holy Spirit the personal and community dimension, the “I” of the disciple and the "we" of the Church, are inseparable

A one time event for the begining of the mission of the Church

The Chrismatic movement uses this as “I” instead of “we”.
It is thorugh prayer we start to realize the fruits and gifts of the spirit for the community, not ourselves.

 

[FrDavid96]

There is no such thing as “baptism in the Holy Spirit” apart from the Sacraments of Initiation in Catholic theology or Catholic practice.

There is no ritual. There is most certainly not any sacrament or pseudo-sacrament. There is no 8th Sacrament. There is no 8th pseudo-sacrament.

The term “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” refers to the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation; since these are workings of the Holy Spirit in a special way. There is nothing separate or in-addition-to these Sacraments.

In the oft-quoted line from Pope Benedict, when he says “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” he was clearly speaking of the historic event of Pentecost. In the next sentence, he then transitions to the present day and reminds us that our own Baptism in the Spirit (ie our own participation in Pentecost) is our participation in the Sacraments of the Church; not our participation in something other-than the Sacraments.

Now, certainly we are called to live our lives in harmony with those Sacraments. Of course. When we feed the poor or care for children or share our faith, we are living what we received in the Sacraments.

However, in terms of baptism in the Spirit as a ritual or a moment apart from the Sacraments, there is no such thing.

 

[chefmomster2]

Thanks to all of you for tour help!