So who do I get to perform my baptism? The ones that tell me that I must give up drinking coffee for two weeks?; The ones that tell me that I must become a member of ‘their’ church?; The ones that baptize dead people?; The ones that baptize new borns?; etc.
The scriptures tell me, that I must repent (to God/Christ), and then become baptized. I have no problem understanding this. Apparently, you do.
There are a lot of decent, caring, forgiving, God-fearing believers in all Christian religions. I believe, that baptism has become so ‘defiled’, that it has lost its purpose, much the same way as ‘divorce’ per the O/T. Divorce was allowed for ‘righteous’ purposes in the beginning, but became defiled, as every possible reason for seeking a divorce, became allowable.No, I understand it very well. I’m not one of those Catholics who thinks we’re the only ones who will be “saved”. Your topic was about the necessity for baptism, though. Without a denomination, church or minister to baptize you, you simply won’t be baptized. Well, you could start your own religion based on your own interpretation of Scriptures. Happens every day.
I didn’t figure you were much interested in becoming Catholic.
Hi Thorwald, Is it possible to be saved without baptism? Since Christ died for the salvation of all, those can be saved without Baptism who die for the faith(Baptism of blood) Catechumens and all those who, even without knowing Christ and the Church, still (under the impulse of grace) sincerely seek god and strive to do his will can also be saved without Baptism(Baptism of desire). The church in her liturgy entrusts children who die without Baptism to the mercy -of God,Baptism could just as well be part of the ‘annointment’ process, for new disciples/apostles, only. We have to remember John the Baptist’s own words, “I baptize with water. There is one that comes after me (He states that he is not even worthy of tying His shoe laces/sandals.), that baptizes with the Holy Spirit.”
The question I have, “If you believe in Christ, seek forgiveness, and follow His Word, and are not baptized, will you become saved?”
CarlanYou have missed the whole point. If I find anything in any religion, that is against the Word of God, I will not allow myself to be baptized there. This includes ‘Bibles’ that deviate from my copy of the KJV Bible. There are so many Bibles, each with there own variations in interpretations, that I am totally bewildered. There is only one true Word of God. Through prayer, I have found the truth…the Bible that I possess. It contains errors, but these errors are found in every other Bible, because they all came from the same ‘original’ writings. (I am speaking of the Christian faiths, only.)Well, now. Was that your real point in starting the thread? I’m sorry, I misunderstood from your topic line.
There are plenty of non-denominational churches out there that are pretty thin on creeds and regulations that would be happy to baptize you if that’s all you want. If you insist that they interpret Scriptures exactly the way you do in all cases before you’ll be baptized, then you’re probably out of luck. When you stand before God, you can just tell Him you would have been happy to have been baptized, but no one agreed with you fully so you weren’t.
G’night now.
I have to smile at your response. I have been in the presence of God and His only begotten Son, in my second vision. I have seen them. This was followed by a dream, filled with riddles, that were interpreted for me, over a period of six years. I am annointed, by His own words. I have been receiving proper understanding of His Word over the same six year period. I have been shown missing scriptures. I was spoken to once in His own voice.No, baptism is not required. Only if you want to be “saved” should you get baptized (1 Pet. 3:21). But if you’re not interested in salvation, then you don’t need to worry about it. On the other hand, since Baptism is one of the greatest gifts of the Holy Spirit, and a “form of godliness” (2 Tim. 3:5), you shouldn’t deny the power of the salvific graces you receive in Baptism, and you definitely don’t want to deny the work of the Holy Spirit.
Don’t you see that this is exactly what you believe?They all believe, that their own faith is the one and only ‘correct’ faith. It is amazing.
I believe in what I am told to believe in, by God, Himself…HIS WORD!!!
The KJV Bible does call for Baptism, Thornwald.The scriptures tell me, that I must repent (to God/Christ), and then become baptized. I have no problem understanding this. Apparently, you do.
P.S. I will never, ever, ever, become a Catholic. I follow only the KJV Bible in my possession (whatever version that may be, in your view). I will not ‘stray’ from the written Word of God. We are ‘commanded by scripture’, to use His Word, in order to evaluate that which other people try to teach us. If we do not, then ‘anything goes’. We have lost our ‘standard of measurement’, if we deviate from His Word. Christ, Himself, witnessed the truth of the Word. He, Himself, is the ‘Word in the flesh’. No priest or any other human being, holds this position.
Uh, first of all, my name is ‘Thorwald’. My name should have been spelled ‘Thorvald’, but my mother wrote my name down as my father had ‘pronounced’ it (in Norwegian). The “v” is pronounced as a “w” in Norwegian. He never checked the spelling on my birth certificate…Oh well.The KJV Bible does call for Baptism, Thornwald.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mt 28:19
I am sorry to have mispelt your name and thanks for the clarification.Uh, first of all, my name is ‘Thorwald’. My name should have been spelled ‘Thorvald’, but my mother wrote my name down as my father had ‘pronounced’ it (in Norwegian). The “v” is pronounced as a “w” in Norwegian. He never checked the spelling on my birth certificate…Oh well.
If you read the 6-page document that I reference in posting #34 (above), you will see what I am getting at. Apparently, when you use the referenced scripture (per this document) in order to evaluate the “need” for water baptism, you will see that it has no impact either way, on your salvation. You are forgiven for your sins, and baptized with the Holy Spirit, before water baptism is carried out. The referenced scriptures plainly state this.
The other point that I made previously, is still valid. We know that Christ instructed His disciples/apostles to baptize with water. Why do we assume, that ministers/teachers, or any other current day hierarchy in the church, have the same “authorization” in order to baptize, that His annointed disciples/apostles had? If what is written in the above-mentioned 6-page document makes current day baptism irrelevant, it also makes my point (above) irrelevant.
I do not take the scriptural reference to baptism, lightly. I am simply asking questions, and evaluating the scriptures, and my personal experiences. We often believe what others are teaching us, without questioning their interpretations. I believe, that God provides us with the truth, if we simply ask Him for clarification of His Word, in earnest.
Thank you for your response. I always think of what Christ said, “Even if you only believe upon His name, thou shalt be saved.” If you notice, there is no mention of ‘water baptism’. In regards to your response concerning ‘water baptism’ (above), the 6-page document covers the reference to Acts, but seems to ‘over-power’ it, with the writings in the book of John. It appears, that some of the references in the Bible concerning ‘baptism’ are actually referring to ‘baptism by the Holy Spirit’. It seems to me, that there was in fact a mention (ie. in the scriptures presented in the 6-page document) of baptism by water not being necessary for salvation. I THINK IT SAID THIS.I am sorry to have mispelt your name and thanks for the clarification.
I will not go into the theology of Baptism perhaps because I will make a mess of it if I attempt to do so. I will only say that it is commanded by the Lord and the scriptural references are many. The apostles actually did it in Acts when people accepted Christ.
We are baptized as we discard the old and accept the new. It is the initiation into new belief and new life. Do we need to be baptized in order to be Christians and go to heaven? I say it is a yes. Jesus found it important enough to be baptized by John and he affirmed it in his command to baptize and the apostles on record carried out this commandment. So I think it is necessary that on becoming a Christian one needs to be Baptized.
I have not asked God whether Baptism is a truth or not on the basis as being said above and that it had been done by Christians long before I came into the scene.
God bless.
I will not make a play of what Baptism is; whether it is water or Holy Spirit. A Baptism is a Baptism as far as I know, anything else will only complicate thing that actually is quite simple and straight-forward.Thank you for your response. I always think of what Christ said, “Even if you only believe upon His name, thou shalt be saved.” If you notice, there is no mention of ‘water baptism’. In regards to your response concerning ‘water baptism’ (above), the 6-page document covers the reference to Acts, but seems to ‘over-power’ it, with the writings in the book of John. It appears, that some of the references in the Bible concerning ‘baptism’ are actually referring to ‘baptism by the Holy Spirit’. It seems to me, that there was in fact a mention (ie. in the scriptures presented in the 6-page document) of baptism by water not being necessary for salvation. I THINK IT SAID THIS.
God bless you also.
This was the whole point, that I was trying to make, originally. LOLI will not make a play of what Baptism is; whether it is water or Holy Spirit. A Baptism is a Baptism as far as I know, anything else will only complicate thing that actually is quite simple and straight-forward.
The usual rite of Baptism involves renunciation of Satan and reaffirmation of the Apostle Creed. The Baptism then is in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Water, white clothes, candles, God-father/mother, and maybe Bible are secondary. Without the basic ingredients they are useless.
If you were in the middle of the arctic ice field, when you decided to give your heart to Christ, and there was no Church minister around, in order to perform a baptism, I’m sure that God would still accept your repentance and provide you with salvation. I doubt very much, that in such a case (or in similar conditions/situations), that water baptism really matters. He is interested in you becoming a Christian follower/believer, and being obedient to His commands.