Baptism - Justin Martyr

[chrisb]

Grace and Peace,

As a Catholic I try to fortify my faith through the praying of the Liturgy of the Hours. Yesterday in the Second Reading of the Office of Readings we encounter an apology by Saint Justin Martyr concerning Baptismal Regeneration where the Saint states:

Our first birth took place without our knowledge or consent because our parents came together, and we grew up in the midst of wickedness. So if we were not to remain children of necessity and ignorance, we needed a new birth of which we ourselves would be conscious, and which would be the result of our own free choice.

Reading this in the Liturgy of the Hours made me question why we as Catholics, Byzantine and even Orthodox hold to them tradition of Infant Baptism? It would appear that our traditions fly in the face of Justin’s whole point of Baptism.

I don’t need to read later Saints who argue for Infant Baptism or anything I understand that. I’m really just interested in understanding you thoughts as to why we don’t recognize the fact that some early Fathers clearly taught otherwise.

Thanks.

 

[Formosus]

Its simply that times were different back then from when the Church adopted infant baptism.

 

[chrisb]

Its simply that times were different back then from when the Church adopted infant baptism.

St. Cyprian might disagree with you on the point that the Church adopted infant baptism but it also appears that St. Justin Martyr was not under the impression. I’d really like to get some thoughts as to whether St. Justin Martyr was ‘orthodox’ in the general sense of the faith?

 

[Formosus]

Its just a different local custom really. Cyprian had his local north african customs, Justin had customs in his area. I wouldn’t question St. Justin’s orthodoxy in the least bit.

 

[twf]

Well, we should also keep in mind that during this early period of Church history most baptisms would still be converts…adults converting from paganism rather than children raised in the Catholic faith.

 

[Alexius]

I’m fairly certain that Justin Martyr didn’t have a clear understanding or acceptance of Original Sin. I can’t verify this as I lent my book of Justin Martyr’s writings out, but I do recall a note about this in the end of the book. This could explain why he didn’t talk about infant baptism.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

Tertullian also seems to advise against infant Baptism in his treatise on Baptism.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m fairly certain that Justin Martyr didn’t have a clear understanding or acceptance of Original Sin.

Makes sense because that concept never existed during his time.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well, we should also keep in mind that during this early period of Church history most baptisms would still be converts…adults converting from paganism rather than children raised in the Catholic faith.

St. Justin lived around 150AD. Christianity has been around for well over a century. If they haven’t reproduced at that time, that is worrying.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Grace and Peace,

As a Catholic I try to fortify my faith through the praying of the Liturgy of the Hours. Yesterday in the Second Reading of the Office of Readings we encounter an apology by Saint Justin Martyr concerning Baptismal Regeneration where the Saint states:

Our first birth took place without our knowledge or consent because our parents came together, and we grew up in the midst of wickedness. So if we were not to remain children of necessity and ignorance, we needed a new birth of which we ourselves would be conscious, and which would be the result of our own free choice.

Reading this in the Liturgy of the Hours made me question why we as Catholics, Byzantine and even Orthodox hold to them tradition of Infant Baptism? It would appear that our traditions fly in the face of Justin’s whole point of Baptism.

I don’t need to read later Saints who argue for Infant Baptism or anything I understand that. I’m really just interested in understanding you thoughts as to why we don’t recognize the fact that some early Fathers clearly taught otherwise.

Thanks.

Note that the whole reason why we have godparents is so that they will provide that consciousness to respond to the baptismal promises.

Also in the early Church there developed a practice where people wait until their deathbeds until getting baptised. Not sure if this already exists in the second century. The reason is that there are tough regulations around being Christian, and those who violate those regulations get sever penalties. The unbaptized don’t get penalized obviously, so people wait 'til the last moment for baptism so that they don’t get penalized. For example, in the 3rd and 4th century there are canons that for those who are baptized and then left the faith and would want to return needs to remain with the catechumens for 10 years. 10 years! So no communion, no staying for the Liturgy of the Faithful, no other sacraments.

This is the real reason Constantine waited for hist last moments before being baptized.

 

[Shin]

‘Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone.’

Alternate translation.

Either way reading it in context it isn’t speaking to that subject.

 

[ConstantineTG]

‘Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone.’

Alternate translation.

Either way reading it in context it isn’t speaking to that subject.

Better context. I maintain my answer about the godparents. Here it says that “we were brought up in bad habits and wicked training.” And again the godparents are there so that we are brought up according to the faith. They are there to support our parents in doing that.

 

[Vico]

Grace and Peace,

As a Catholic I try to fortify my faith through the praying of the Liturgy of the Hours. Yesterday in the Second Reading of the Office of Readings we encounter an apology by Saint Justin Martyr concerning Baptismal Regeneration where the Saint states:

Our first birth took place without our knowledge or consent because our parents came together, and we grew up in the midst of wickedness. So if we were not to remain children of necessity and ignorance, we needed a new birth of which we ourselves would be conscious, and which would be the result of our own free choice.

Reading this in the Liturgy of the Hours made me question why we as Catholics, Byzantine and even Orthodox hold to them tradition of Infant Baptism? It would appear that our traditions fly in the face of Justin’s whole point of Baptism.

I don’t need to read later Saints who argue for Infant Baptism or anything I understand that. I’m really just interested in understanding you thoughts as to why we don’t recognize the fact that some early Fathers clearly taught otherwise.

Thanks.

We do make a conscious decision in Holy Confession.