Baptism of a newborn without one of the parent's consent

[Moneo]

Okay folks, I want to throw this one out and gather your opinions on the matter. I’ll hold off telling you how I responded and what opinion I gave the persons involved until I read what you have to say.

This concerns the baptism of a friend’s newborn son. I’ll endeavour to be as brief as possible.

This friend approached me a while back and said that he wanted to have his son baptised when he was born. Further, he asked me to be the child’s godfather since he said that he did not know any other practising Catholics whom he could ask. The baby was born in February and he’s a cutie. I’d be honoured to be his godfather (which doesn’t mean to say I wouldn’t be if he weren’t cute, but … you know what I mean ).

The problems are as follows:

1. My friend is not married. He has lived with the woman who is the mother of his child for 11 years and they are committed to remaining together, but they do not want to get married.
2. Both parents are Catholic, though non-practising. The father professes to be agnostic now and I’m not sure what the mother claims for herself exactly, I only know that she is hostile to the Church. When I asked my friend why he wants his son baptised though he professes to be agnostic and doesn’t go to Mass, he replied “just in case it’s true.”
3. The mother is completely against the baptism. She doesn’t want her child to be baptised. My friend, however, asked me to help him persuade her otherwise and, failing that, declared that he is prepared to have the child baptised without the mother’s consent or knowledge if necessary.

Yeah. It seems cut and dried, doesn’t it?

As I said, I won’t tell you how I responded until I read your opinions/advice/suggestions.

So, what would YOU tell him?

 

[cue]

Canon 868

§1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

Code of Canon Law

You mentioned that the father wanted the child baptized “just in case it’s true.” I would try to explore that with him and work on bringing him to the practice of the Faith (to fulfill §1.2).

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Okay folks, I want to throw this one out and gather your opinions on the matter. I’ll hold off telling you how I responded and what opinion I gave the persons involved until I read what you have to say.

This concerns the baptism of a friend’s newborn son. I’ll endeavour to be as brief as possible.

This friend approached me a while back and said that he wanted to have his son baptised when he was born. Further, he asked me to be the child’s godfather since he said that he did not know any other practising Catholics whom he could ask. The baby was born in February and he’s a cutie. I’d be honoured to be his godfather (which doesn’t mean to say I wouldn’t be if he weren’t cute, but … you know what I mean ).

The problems are as follows:

1. My friend is not married. He has lived with the woman who is the mother of his child for 11 years and they are committed to remaining together, but they do not want to get married.
2. Both parents are Catholic, though non-practising. The father professes to be agnostic now and I’m not sure what the mother claims for herself exactly, I only know that she is hostile to the Church. When I asked my friend why he wants his son baptised though he professes to be agnostic and doesn’t go to Mass, he replied “just in case it’s true.”
3. The mother is completely against the baptism. She doesn’t want her child to be baptised. My friend, however, asked me to help him persuade her otherwise and, failing that, declared that he is prepared to have the child baptised without the mother’s consent or knowledge if necessary.

Yeah. It seems cut and dried, doesn’t it?

As I said, I won’t tell you how I responded until I read your opinions/advice/suggestions.

So, what would YOU tell him?

I would not recomend Baptizing the child at this time because there seems to be no real hope that he will be raised in the Catholic Faith.

 

[Aramis]

Since he’s not going to be raised in the faith, AND neither parent is a practical catholic, I’d refuse, AND inform the pastor.

 

[otjm]

I guess I would start by explaining that the Church wants at least one parent, and preferably both, to be “on board”; and that means that the Church via the pastor has some reasonable belief that the child will be raised Catholic.

Given that his wife for sure isn’t going to take that responsiblity, and he shows about zero at best likelyhood right now that he might even think of being capable of raising the child thus, that it simply isn’t going to happen. Tell him further that as a godparent, you have a moral charge to do so if the parents can’t or won’t, but that their situation makes it higly unlikely that you would be allowed to do so, and you do not want to take on a responsbility that you will be prevented from carrying out short of making a family war.

And then thank him for honoring you with the request, and that if circumstances change, you would be happy to do so.

 

[puzzleannie]

Yeah. It seems cut and dried, doesn’t it?

As I said, I won’t tell you how I responded until I read your opinions/advice/suggestions.

So, what would YOU tell him?

canon law requires that the parents give satisfactory evidence and promise to raise the child Catholic, and if that assurance is not forthcoming, he may delay the baptism until such time as it is. No he should not baptize the child if facts are as you state, because there is little hope at all the child will be raised Catholic. He would be burdening the child with the requirements to live by Catholic law and teaching, but not educating the child in how to meet them.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I guess I would start by explaining that the Church wants at least one parent, and preferably both, to be “on board”; and that means that the Church via the pastor has some reasonable belief that the child will be raised Catholic.

Given that his wife for sure isn’t going to take that responsiblity, and he shows about zero at best likelyhood right now that he might even think of being capable of raising the child thus, that it simply isn’t going to happen. Tell him further that as a godparent, you have a moral charge to do so if the parents can’t or won’t, but that their situation makes it higly unlikely that you would be allowed to do so, and you do not want to take on a responsbility that you will be prevented from carrying out short of making a family war.

And then thank him for honoring you with the request, and that if circumstances change, you would be happy to do so.

I think that’s a good presentation, especially explaining how your becoming the godparent would cause strife, making your declining the best choice for all parties involved.

 

[littlepaperstar]

I would not recomend Baptizing the child at this time because there seems to be no real hope that he will be raised in the Catholic Faith.

I agree, how will the child be brought up in the faith if the mother is against it? Plus both parents of the child has to be in agreement.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I agree, how will the child be brought up in the faith if the mother is against it? Plus both parents of the child has to be in agreement.

Only one parent needs to consent to the baptism.

 

[littlepaperstar]

Only one parent needs to consent to the baptism.

Right but in my opinion, it should be an equal decision. If not, it will cause problems. I should of said orginally in my opinion.

 

[Moneo]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with an opinion. I knew about the provision of canon law and we’re all essentially on the same track here.

Basically what I told my friend was this:

1. I’m not going to weigh in on his side and try to convince his wife of anything, because she has not asked my opinion. She’s the baby’s mother, not me. This is a decision that they need to make together and I just need to stay out of it.
2. While I would be honoured to be his baby’s godfather, I take the responsibility very seriously, and if I’m not going to be allowed to fulfill my duties as godfather, then I don’t want to do it. I told him that baptism is a sacrament which will initiate his son into the life of God’s grace, not a cute social ceremony for presenting their newborn son to the world, and that if they aren’t going to teach him the Faith once he’s baptised and set a good example for him by practising it themselves, it’s as pointless and negligent as giving birth to him and then not feeding him.
3. Vis-a-vis the example thing, I said to him “Enough already this agnostic business; you’re Catholic. You know damned well you are and that you still believe or you wouldn’t be nervous about not having him baptised, so knock it off already and get yer butt back to Mass. P.S., stop calling the baby’s mother your girlfriend, it sounds like your fifteen years old. She’s your wife and the mother of your baby. Get married already. If you succceed in getting this child baptised you’re going to confuse the hell out of him. He’ll be living one thing at home (unmarried parents who don’t practise the Faith but are sending him to catechism and Mass in the care of his godfather) and hearing another thing in catechism and from me. It won’t work.”

Yeh, I can talk to him like that. We’re a pair of ironic, scathingly blunt lads, particularly over a pint or two. And we were well over a pint or two when I said the above.

1. Finally I told him that secretly baptising the child against his wife’s wishes if just a ba-a-aad idea! I said that even if he were able to find a priest willing to baptise the child under these conditions and in secret (doubtful), then he darn well better be prepared to keep his mouth shut about it for the rest of his mortal life because if his wife ever found out that he’d gone behind her back to have it done it would provoke enormous resentment and a tremendous row, or possibly even a rupture in their relationship. Sneaking about is not the ideal way of maintaining a relationship with someone you love.

If he did that he could never, ever tell her that it had been done, even if she were to later change her mind and express interest in baptising their son.

So that’s it basically. Please pray that he’ll return to the practise of the Faith and that his baby be baptised before too much more time has passed.

 

[Island_Oak]

All I can say is the bloke is lucky he doesn’t have an Irish mother-in-law to contend with ('course if he did he’d be 11 years married). Nary a one of my Irish peers had babies who made it past the delivery room without granny making the sign of the cross with a moistened finger over the head and heart of the newborn–permission was never sought and consent was always presumed. (And I have to say I kinda like the thought of those old gals looking out for the souls of wee ones and paying no mind to any malarky from the adults!):shamrock2::shamrock2:

 

[Moneo]

All I can say is the bloke is lucky he doesn’t have an Irish mother-in-law to contend with ('course if he did he’d be 11 years married). Nary a one of my Irish peers had babies who made it past the delivery room without granny making the sign of the cross with a moistened finger over the head and heart of the newborn–permission was never sought and consent was always presumed. (And I have to say I kinda like the thought of those old gals looking out for the souls of wee ones and paying no mind to any malarky from the adults!):shamrock2::shamrock2:

Funny you should say that, because this fella is Irish! But his wife isn’t and his folks, who do practise the Faith, live in Ireland. They were just down last week to meet their new grandson in fact. They want the baby baptised of course, and of course it drives them mad that their son has fallen away from the Faith, but after observing our exchanges and the way I don’t take any “malarkey” from him, as you say, his dad took me aside and told me to keep it up. “He’s still a Catholic in his heart” he told me, “he’s just stubborn and he likes to blab off and take the piss.”

Because I do too and just throw it right back at him, his dad is convinced that I’m having a good influence on him. Now, much as I’d like to believe that I can bring him back to the Faith, we all know that if he does return, it’ll be God’s grace that does it and not my witticisms. I’m just trying to make myself useful, as it were …