Baptism of babies & infants

[Bill_Pick]

To the same guys who tell us that infant baptism is not in the Bible, i ask: Does the term “age of reason”, appear in the Bible? Is it at least mentioned with any words? Does the Bible say that ONLY adults can be baptised? No, it doesn’t.

What do the prophets say about the coming of the Messiah?

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jer 31:34).

OK OK, this speaks about forgiving of sins, but it also says that ALL shall know the Lord. Can it be true that children can know God?

Let’s find the answer in the gospel of St. Luke 1:40-44.

And [Mary] entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy…

 

[pipper]

To the same guys who tell us that infant baptism is not in the Bible, i ask: Does the term “age of reason”, appear in the Bible? Is it at least mentioned with any words? Does the Bible say that ONLY adults can be baptised? No, it doesn’t.

What do the prophets say about the coming of the Messiah?

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jer 31:34).

OK OK, this speaks about forgiving of sins, but it also says that ALL shall know the Lord. Can it be true that children can know God?

Let’s find the answer in the gospel of St. Luke 1:40-44.

And [Mary] entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy…

The term used by the opponents of infant baptism is: “The age of accountability”, and you are absolutely correct, the phrase appears not even once in the Bible.

Isn’t it odd how the ones who want to force “sola scriptura” on us don’t even really practice it themselves.

What they do in practice is to make their minds up first about the theology they want to practice and then search the bible for "proof texts’ usually quoted out of context and ignore the verses that go against their previously arrived at teaching.

Ignoreing the baptisms is a great example of this, they decide that infant baptism is invalid, so they ignore eveything in the bible that indicates household baptism.

“Sola Scriptura”? I don’t think so.

Do as I say and not as I do.

 

[pipper]

Now about Parker D, the Mormon. This as going to come across as rude, and I apologise beforehand to Parker for coming across this way.

The reason that ParkerD opposes infant baptism so greatly is that Joseph Smith wrote strongly against the practice in the “Book of Mormon” that JS wrote himself. It was a very strong issue at the time he wrote the BOM and so he spoke against it using the “voice of 'Heavenly Father”. He also wrote about the Holy Eucharist in the voice of “heavenly father”, making it into a symbolic rite only in remembrance of Jesus. JS eliminated six of the sacraments and now Mormons speak of “THE one and only sacrament”.

I am aware that Parker will object highly to all of this, since he is convinced the Book of Mormon was dictated by “Heavenly Father” and is every bit as inspired as the bible.

But the Mormons are the only people in the world who believe the BOM is inspired by “Heavenly Father” along with Doctrines and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

 

[Bill_Pick]

What I think is a kick in the pants they opposes infant baptism but go around the world Baptism dead people,Thats maks no secse at All

 

[pipper]

What I think is a kick in the pants they opposes infant baptism but go around the world Baptism dead people,Thats maks no secse at All

To be honest it is only the Mormons who think they are “baptising for the dead”, we all know except for the Mormons themselves that they are only getting wet. This baptism “for the dead” of course has no effect on the dead.

It is very irritating to be aware the Mormons even think they are “baptiseing” our ancestors into their church. But since this mormon “baptism” does nothing at all, I don’t think it’s really a thing to worry about.

 

[Bill_Pick]

To be honest it is only the Mormons who think they are “baptising for the dead”, we all know except for the Mormons themselves that they are only getting wet. This baptism “for the dead” of course has no effect on the dead.

It is very irritating to be aware the Mormons even think they are “baptiseing” our ancestors into their church. But since this mormon “baptism” does nothing at all, I don’t think it’s really a thing to worry about.

Well its a joke on them You cannot "Baptisp alive but yiu can if they are dead. And they call Smith a propfet

 

[ParkerD]

Now about Parker D, the Mormon. This as going to come across as rude, and I apologise beforehand to Parker for coming across this way.

The reason that ParkerD opposes infant baptism so greatly is that Joseph Smith wrote strongly against the practice in the “Book of Mormon” that JS wrote himself. It was a very strong issue at the time he wrote the BOM and so he spoke against it using the “voice of 'Heavenly Father”. He also wrote about the Holy Eucharist in the voice of “heavenly father”, making it into a symbolic rite only in remembrance of Jesus. JS eliminated six of the sacraments and now Mormons speak of “THE one and only sacrament”.

I am aware that Parker will object highly to all of this, since he is convinced the Book of Mormon was dictated by “Heavenly Father” and is every bit as inspired as the bible.

But the Mormons are the only people in the world who believe the BOM is inspired by “Heavenly Father” along with Doctrines and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

Pipper,
Hi, and hope you are well. No offense taken. I just think that to deprive a thinking person of the opportunity to make a commitment in their life when they become a believer in Christ, and to deprive their body and soul of the spiritual connotation of the “new birth” they are supposed to receive by being baptized, is a deprivation that I personally think is a loss and is unfortunate in the infant baptism practice. I also connect that with being baptized by immersion as a similitude of the “grave” for the new birth to take place.

 

[pipper]

Pipper,
Hi, and hope you are well. No offense taken. I just think that to deprive a thinking person of the opportunity to make a commitment in their life when they become a believer in Christ, and to deprive their body and soul of the spiritual connotation of the “new birth” they are supposed to receive by being baptized, is a deprivation that I personally think is a loss and is unfortunate in the infant baptism practice. I also connect that with being baptized by immersion as a similitude of the “grave” for the new birth to take place.

Parker, thank you for taking that so well. Be assured that I do not hate you or any other Mormon, I just agree with the theology that Mormons teach, and fairly strongly at that.

When babies are baptised they certainly are not deprived of the New Birth, that is exactly what baptism is all about regardless of the age of the “baptisee”. Children are baptised on the faith of thier parents and sponsors, and brought up being formed in the Christian faith. When they come to have faith on their own, the have first Holy Communion, first sacrament of reconciliation, and are confirmed in the faith, on thier own faith, so it’s substantially the same.

The big and main difference is that children baptised are already Christian from their baptism never know what it is not to be Christian, as those made to wait do.

BTW baptism by submerrsion is making a comeback in the Catholic church for children and adults also.

In the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches people have always been baptised by submerrsion, it never went away and never needed “restoration”.

As an adult convert I was baptised by submerrsion in a horse trough!

 

[ParkerD]

Parker, thank you for taking that so well. Be assured that I do not hate you or any other Mormon, I just agree with the theology that Mormons teach, and fairly strongly at that.

When babies are baptised they certainly are not deprived of the New Birth, that is exactly what baptism is all about regardless of the age of the “baptisee”. Children are baptised on the faith of thier parents and sponsors, and brought up being formed in the Christian faith. When they come to have faith on their own, the have first Holy Communion, first sacrament of reconciliation, and are confirmed in the faith, on thier own faith, so it’s substantially the same.

The big and main difference is that children baptised are already Christian from their baptism never know what it is not to be Christian, as those made to wait do.

BTW baptism by submerrsion is making a comeback in the Catholic church for children and adults also.

In the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches people have always been baptised by submerrsion, it never went away and never needed “restoration”.

As an adult convert I was baptised by submerrsion in a horse trough!

Pipper,
Thanks for the response and sharing your baptism experience. That must have been pretty memorable!

 

[pipper]

Pipper,
Thanks for the response and sharing your baptism experience. That must have been pretty memorable!

Lol, what it mostly was was freezing. I was baptised out of doors on Oct 30.

I made a mistake before, what I really intended to say was that I DISagree with Mormon theology, but I have no personal hatred for individual Mormons.

 

[rev_kevin]

After doing some research on this, I have come to the conclusion that Infant baptism is necessary to take away original sin. Not all religious groups agree with this practice, mine being one of them, but I can see your point on infant baptism and the reason you do so. Although I never disagreed with you on this subject, I just wanted specifics and in my research I find that there is none on eather side in the Bible, but in your doctrine there is.

 

[Mickey]

After doing some research on this, I have come to the conclusion that Infant baptism is necessary to take away original sin.

God bless you Kevin!

 

[ferdie]

After doing some research on this, I have come to the conclusion that Infant baptism is necessary to take away original sin. Not all religious groups agree with this practice, mine being one of them, but I can see your point on infant baptism and the reason you do so. Although I never disagreed with you on this subject, I just wanted specifics and in my research I find that there is none on eather side in the Bible, but in your doctrine there is.

Maybe this is a good time to discuss this in your church?

 

[Mickey]

I just think that to deprive a thinking person of the opportunity to make a commitment in their life when they become a believer in Christ, and to deprive their body and soul of the spiritual connotation of the “new birth” they are supposed to receive by being baptized, is a deprivation that I personally think is a loss and is unfortunate in the infant baptism practice.

Hence your error in thinking. The infant should receive the grace of baptism at a tender age. The parents and Godparents have the responsibility to see that the child is raised and formed as a devout Christian. In fact, the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Church give the infant all three sacraments of initiation at the same time—baptism, chrismation (confirmation) and Holy Communion.

Our modern world so exults reason and cerebralism that young children are sometimes treated as not fully human, or are at least treated less seriously than adults because they can’t think like we do. The truth is that a child is a full human being. A child of any age is capable of expressing and participating in the glory of God. Christ Himself sanctified every age as God-bearing, since He was as much the perfect Word of God as an infant as when He was a grown man. We must remember that children are not second-class persons. Their baptisms are as significant to them and to God as adult baptisms. Even if they do not cognitively understand what that baptism means, they are certainly capable of intuitively understanding it.
antiochian.org/node/16904

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hence your error in thinking. The infant should receive the grace of baptism at a tender age. The parents and Godparents have the responsibility to see that the child is raised and formed as a devout Christian. In fact, the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Church give the infant all three sacraments of initiation at the same time—baptism, chrismation (confirmation) and Holy Communion.

Our modern world so exults reason and cerebralism that young children are sometimes treated as not fully human, or are at least treated less seriously than adults because they can’t think like we do. The truth is that a child is a full human being. A child of any age is capable of expressing and participating in the glory of God. Christ Himself sanctified every age as God-bearing, since He was as much the perfect Word of God as an infant as when He was a grown man. We must remember that children are not second-class persons. Their baptisms are as significant to them and to God as adult baptisms. Even if they do not cognitively understand what that baptism means, they are certainly capable of intuitively understanding it.
antiochian.org/node/16904

Amen!

 

[jake23]

In the Bible, Rev. 1:11, states, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the SEVEN churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” Where is the Roman Catholic church? Rev is the last book in the Bible but no Roman Catholic church yet? ED O.

Lack of education! There are more than enough sources oustide the Bible to show that the original church was and is the Catholic church! I tell you what, you tell me what church did these seven belong to if not Catholic? They where all in communion with each other, so it defineltey was not of different denominations! Which church? In my college studies there was nothing to say that it was not the Catholic church, yet everything pointed to the Catholic church as the apostolic church!

To me, anyone who claims they do not know of this information is dishonest!

 

[jake23]

Pipper,
Hi, and hope you are well. No offense taken. I just think that to deprive a thinking person of the opportunity to make a commitment in their life when they become a believer in Christ, and to deprive their body and soul of the spiritual connotation of the “new birth” they are supposed to receive by being baptized, is a deprivation that I personally think is a loss and is unfortunate in the infant baptism practice. I also connect that with being baptized by immersion as a similitude of the “grave” for the new birth to take place.

No offense but someone who believes God was once a man and that a man can become a God shouldnt be giving opinions on anything!

 

[EdOsiecki]

God bless you Kevin!

Hi Mickey a few questions to consider. (1) Sin causes death, Jesus died in our place. How can water baptism do that? (2) Sin has to be confessed, how can infants do that? (3) Jesus said Mat 26:28 “This is my blood—which is poured out— for the forgiveness of sins, and Heb 9:22, “Without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins” doesn’t water baptism contradict what Jesus and Heb states? (4) There has to an atonement for sins. Jesus’ blood atoned for our sins Rev 1:5. How can water baptism do that? (5) When sin is confessed, the sinner must repent. How can an infant do that? ED O.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hi Mickey a few questions to consider. (1) Sin causes death, Jesus died in our place. How can water baptism do that? (2) Sin has to be confessed, how can infants do that? (3) Jesus said Mat 26:28 “This is my blood—which is poured out— for the forgiveness of sins, and Heb 9:22, “Without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins” doesn’t water baptism contradict what Jesus and Heb states? (4) There has to an atonement for sins. Jesus’ blood atoned for our sins Rev 1:5. How can water baptism do that? (5) When sin is confessed, the sinner must repent. How can an infant do that? ED O.

Ed Just because you live in Fort mill does not mean they will not let you in a church,your not blackball because your still looking for god LOL

 

[pipper]

Hi Mickey a few questions to consider. (1) Sin causes death, Jesus died in our place. How can water baptism do that? (2) Sin has to be confessed, how can infants do that? (3) Jesus said Mat 26:28 “This is my blood—which is poured out— for the forgiveness of sins, and Heb 9:22, “Without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins” doesn’t water baptism contradict what Jesus and Heb states? (4) There has to an atonement for sins. Jesus’ blood atoned for our sins Rev 1:5. How can water baptism do that? (5) When sin is confessed, the sinner must repent. How can an infant do that? ED O.

You just can’t stand it that a formerly adult baptism only person changes his mind and goes to our side can you?

You have to sow seeds of doubt in his mind, don’t you?

BTW, the word is baptism not “water” baptism, “water” is superflous.

“There is One Lord.
One faith, and ONE baptism”

One.