Baptism of babies & infants

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Bill_Pick said:
Baptism was given to take away the sin inherited from Adam (original sin) and any sins we personally committed before baptism—sins we personally commit are called actual sins, because they come from our own acts. Thus on the day of Pentecost, Peter told the crowds, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38), and when Paul was baptized he was told, “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). And so Peter later wrote, “Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 3:21).

cathloic answer
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Does water baptism wash away sins? Ed O.
 
EdOsiecki said:
Thanks for your reply, The reason we baptize adults is because Jesus commands it in Mark !6:16. Baptism with adults is a sign that they willing repent Mat 3:11, and turn to God. And in Rom 6:6 Adults die to their old self ( refer.to Christ being buried) and when emerged from the water adults reference it to Christ’s ressurection. Infants cannot do any of this. Doesn’t Jesus make it very clear that the kingdom of God belongs to the little children. You say, “We baptize our babies because we understand that it is very important to do this”. Says Who? Where in The Bible? The reason for my questions, Some think that water baptism saves. Does it? The thief on the cross wasn’t baptized, yet he went to be with Jesus. ED O.
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The Scriptures tell us that “entire households were baptized.” Logic says that this included infants.
The thief on the cross was promised paradise by Jesus Christ Himself. If I was promised paradise by Jesus Christ Himself, I wouldn’t need baptism either.

The Catholic Church recognizes three baptisms, baptism of water, baptism of blood and baptism of desire. The first you know. Baptism of blood results from martyrdom for the Faith. Baptism of desire results from the sincere desire to be baptized, but death intervenes before baptism can be conferred. Is heaven possible without baptism? We can only speculate on the mercy of God. Water baptisms (and the other baptisms) remits Original sin and actual sin, as well. Salvation is NOT automatic, but depends upon one’s state at death. “Once saved, always saved” is false and deceptive. If one dies in a state of unrepented sin, mortal or venial, then God’s justice demands that a price must be paid. Unrepented mortal sin can result in spiritual death, ie: Hell. Any stain on the soul results in a stretch in Purgatory. Purgatory is not believed by protestants, but they will be surprised when(and if) they find themselves there. The doctrine of Purgatory is a doctrine of hope. When the stain of sin is removed by purgation, entrance to Heaven is assured. So, for souls, it is not JUST Heaven OR Hell. If you were “born and reared” a Catholic, you would not need to ask these questions, unless, of course, you were poorly taught.
 
rev_kevin said:
Nothing to do with refusing to aknowledge that catholic way of baptism. I was catholic, baprized catholic, first communion, the whole 10 yards to the point of sprending a year in a siminary to be a priest. I decided to choose another path in serving God but on this path I find that people who don’t belong to a certain religion have a better outlook on life. They don’t have to listen to this religion belittling another religion and all the back and forth that goes with it. My religion is the true religion. Your beliefs are wrong ours are the only right ones. Sounds like a bunch of school kids bickering about who’s dad can beat who’s dad up. And then you get You must believe my way because its the truth. Its been around for 2000 years so it has to be right. Who’s truth yours or Gods? Who’s to say one religion is better than another. My god don’t we worship the one and only God. So what if we worship him in a different way and believe thing differently. There is no tollarence for other views. Don’t dare question it you have no right to. Well did Jesus tell Thomas that. He doubted the Lord and still was treated with respect. When Jesus was resurrected didn’t he doubt that it was Jesus who was right infront of him. He wanted to feel his wounds. He doubetd the Lord himself. The Bible is full of people doubting or not having trust in the Lord. Why wasn’t Moses allowed in the promised land. But did God treat him badly, no. Even a rightious man like him Moses questioned God. The disciples didn’t have enough faith to drive a demon out of a boy but did Jesus treat them badly, no. But in today’s religion if you don’t agree with them you must be the anti-christ, or a confused person. People point out scripture and can repeat it but how many actually live it. How many hypocrites are there who claim to be good and follow the example set fourth by Jesus. Not a lot. So I’m searching my soul to make sure before I make my final decession.
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rev Do you think that Our Lord come to the world to satrted a Church or did He come to start s Church,and why does He say the Church is the Pillar of Truth,not all churchs can be the right church we can only have one truth and it is the Church started By Jesus Christ. not any of the 26,000others/ THE CATHLOIC CHURCH IS THE ONLY CHURCH STARTED BY OUR LORD.
 
hosemonkey said:
The Scriptures tell us that “entire households were baptized.” Logic says that this included infants.
The thief on the cross was promised paradise by Jesus Christ Himself. If I was promised paradise by Jesus Christ Himself, I wouldn’t need baptism either.

The Catholic Church recognizes three baptisms, baptism of water, baptism of blood and baptism of desire. The first you know. Baptism of blood results from martyrdom for the Faith. Baptism of desire results from the sincere desire to be baptized, but death intervenes before baptism can be conferred. Is heaven possible without baptism? We can only speculate on the mercy of God. Water baptisms (and the other baptisms) remits Original sin and actual sin, as well. Salvation is NOT automatic, but depends upon one’s state at death. “Once saved, always saved” is false and deceptive. If one dies in a state of unrepented sin, mortal or venial, then God’s justice demands that a price must be paid. Unrepented mortal sin can result in spiritual death, ie: Hell. Any stain on the soul results in a stretch in Purgatory. Purgatory is not believed by protestants, but they will be surprised when(and if) they find themselves there. The doctrine of Purgatory is a doctrine of hope. When the stain of sin is removed by purgation, entrance to Heaven is assured. So, for souls, it is not JUST Heaven OR Hell. If you were “born and reared” a Catholic, you would not need to ask these questions, unless, of course, you were poorly taught.
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Thanks for your reply, To me, the thief on the cross got saved by his repentance. You mention three types of baptisms, water baptism I understand but the other two are foreign to me. Where are they in the Bible? Where in the Bible does it say water baptism remits original sin? You speak about Purgatory I can’t find it in the Bible? Can you explain what this means 2 Cor 5:21 “For He (God) hath made Him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him” I take that to mean Jesus took all of my sins and He gave me His righteousness. So why would I have to be purified in Purgatory ? Rev 1:5 states I was freed from sin by Jesus’ Blood. Not by water? Is there such a thing as being unfreed?
 
Bill_Pick said:
rev Do you think that Our Lord come to the world to satrted a Church or did He come to start s Church,and why does He say the Church is the Pillar of Truth,not all churchs can be the right church we can only have one truth and it is the Church started By Jesus Christ. not any of the 26,000others/ THE CATHLOIC CHURCH IS THE ONLY CHURCH STARTED BY OUR LORD.
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In the Bible, Rev. 1:11, states, “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the SEVEN churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” Where is the Roman Catholic church? Rev is the last book in the Bible but no Roman Catholic church yet? ED O.
 
EdOsiecki said:
In the Bible, Rev. 1:11, states, "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the SEVEN churches: to all are CathloiWhere is the Roman Catholic church? Rev is the last book in the Bible but no Roman Catholic church yet? ED O.
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all are Cathloic churchs Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea." They did not get call RC until much later
 
I have no objections to it, but it is just a coping mechanism, a tradition. The myths behind what it does are all in the mind. If you are not baptized, it makes no difference. That is the truth.
 
rev_kevin said:
Oh how wonderful to have something in common with someone here.
I find that Requip works good for me. I know they use it for r.l.s. but it is auctually a parkinsons med. I take 2 1mg tablets 2x’s a day and 1-2mg tablet 1x a day. I take 2 different kind of blood pressure pills 3x’s a day. I find that stress makes me shake more.
I tried the Sinamet but is made me sick for some reason. I may talk to my dr. to see about trying Sinamet again.
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Well Sinamet is like levadopa with bufferins added, it is not supposed to upset your stomach like levadopa. I always heard that levadopa is the med of choice for Parkinsons.

But I always say “why mess with success”. If the Reqiup works for you why change ?

This is my non-professional, non-doctors advice for you 🙂
 
Bill_Pick said:
all are Cathloic churchs Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea." They did not get call RC until much later
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If your saying what I think you mean and that is: Peter started the Catholic church and later he merged them all into one Roman Catholic Church.
 
EdOsiecki said:
But doesn’t Jesus say in Mat19:14 that the Kingdom of God belongs to the little childrten? So why be concerned about baptizing them?
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We should be concerned about baptising small childen and infants,even though they have no personal sins, the still are all born with original sin.

In past times the Church said that children who died without baptism entered in to a state called “Limbo”, that has changed somewhat.

Now we say that we can not be sure of the destiny of unbaptised children, but why chance it when infant baptism is available not only in the Catholic church and the Orthodox church, but in the majority of Protestant churches as well.

OTOH I have no idea of what the church of (etc) says, whatever that might be.
 
pipper said:
Try Acts 2:38.
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Thanks for your reply. My original question to Bill Pick was, " does water baptism wash away sins?" He replied yes, but right at that moment could not find the coresponding Scripture verse. Now you tell me it’s in Acts 2:38 Having checked there, the answer is NO! water baptism does not wash away sins. If you continue to read verse 41 it states, "Those who accepted His (Peters) message (from verse 29 to 36 Peter was explaining the gospel message) were baptized. The hearing of the gospel message is what washes away sins. Being baptized is a sign of repentance. What does water baptism do? Ask John, he ought to know why he was sent by God. Mat 3:11 he states, “I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE”. The gospel is: Jesus died to atone for (wahes away) all of our sins, was buried, and is now resurrected. That’s the message that washes away sins not water. ED O.
 
pipper said:
We should be concerned about baptising small childen and infants,even though they have no personal sins, the still are all born with original sin.

In past times the Church said that children who died without baptism entered in to a state called “Limbo”, that has changed somewhat.

Now we say that we can not be sure of the destiny of unbaptised children, but why chance it when infant baptism is available not only in the Catholic church and the Orthodox church, but in the majority of Protestant churches as well.

OTOH I have no idea of what the church of (etc) says, whatever that might be.
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Thanks for your reply. The confussion is, many are led to believe that water baptism washes away sins. That’s not true. Read what I wrote on post 312
 
EdOsiecki said:
Thanks for your reply. My original question to Bill Pick was, " does water baptism wash away sins?" He replied yes, but right at that moment could not find the coresponding Scripture verse. Now you tell me it’s in Acts 2:38 Having checked there, the answer is NO! water baptism does not wash away sins. If you continue to read verse 41 it states, "Those who accepted His (Peters) message (from verse 29 to 36 Peter was explaining the gospel message) were baptized. The hearing of the gospel message is what washes away sins. Being baptized is a sign of repentance. What does water baptism do? Ask John, he ought to know why he was sent by God. Mat 3:11 he states, “I baptize you with water for REPENTANCE”. The gospel is: Jesus died to atone for (wahes away) all of our sins, was buried, and is now resurrected. That’s the message that washes away sins not water. ED O.
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So just hearing by itself washes away sins, you are kidding right? You obvously have pre-concieved notions about everything, which begs the point why are you here,certainly not to learn Catholic ideas on Catholic Answers .com.

It appears to me personally that you are here to proselytise Catholics away form Catholicicsm to your one-man band church of etcettera. You are in violatation of CAs TOS (rules) in case you are unaware,but I am sure you don’t care so long as you can try and “save” us.

Now I am going to type Acts 2:38 since you don’t seem to belive the words of the bible or try to “explain them away”, for they are as plain as the nose on your face, you just chose not to beleive them since they contradict your pre-concived notion.

'Then Peter said to them, “Repent and let everyone of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”

That is from the New King James Bible that you may be more familiar with than any Catholic bible.

One other thing, if you are going to reply then reply to ALL that I have said, if you choose to edit my posts, as you have consistently, then don’t even bother to respond, you will notice that I have responded to all that you have said without snipping, please do me the same courtesy. Not only are your breaking the site rules by proselytizing, you are are also breaking common courtesy by snipping what I have to say.

One more request, please identify the denomination or “non-denomination” you belong to. ETC tells us absolutely nothing.
 
BTW, the baptism of St John the baptiser was not Christian baptism, it was a Jewish rite of Mikveh. Judaism and Christianity are not the same even though you are correct in saying the Jewish rite of Mikveh was for repentence, to this day Jewish people regularly submerrse themselves, it is not the same as Christian Baptism, which only began at the Ressurection.

You might know this if you left your one-man band, just me and the bible “non-denominational” denomination.
 
pipper said:
Now I am going to type Acts 2:38 since you don’t seem to belive the words of the bible or try to “explain them away”, for they are as plain as the nose on your face, you just chose not to beleive them since they contradict your pre-concived notion.

'Then Peter said to them, “Repent and let everyone of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”
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Lets also include the very next verse:
And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ** For the promise is to you and to your children** and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.” Acts 2:38-39
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God bless
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Lets also include the very next verse:

God bless
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Thanks RC, adding that verse does indeed make it very clear that children are to be baptised doesn’t it?

But MR ED, will probably come up with a way to “explain that away” as well.
 
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