Baptism of babies & infants

[rinnie]

What does the Catholic church teach about infant baptism?

The sooner the better. Get that free gift of Grace. And let it fill that Baby up. Why would you let the devil have a shot at that soul. Let Gods grace fight him from the get go.

 

[Zundrah]

Zun think what you are saying. You are saying that its better to let a child live with the sin of original sin. Where you can have that wiped out from the get go.

Then think about this, WHy would you not only want that taken away, but why would you want a child to wait to have the GRACE that is poured into that Child at Baptism.

Baptism is the pouring of Grace. Its the seed of GOD. Why not let that seed grow and grow from birth. I mean why would you want your child to wait to have the gift of Gods Grace, Do you see what I mean. Think of it Zun, what is grace, Grace is God entering you.

Okay, infants should be baptized. I suppose that the quicker we are baptized the batter, right?

Hmmm… Fine, baptise ther infants then. It would be better for them.

 

[hosemonkey]

The sooner the better. Get that free gift of Grace. And let it fill that Baby up. Why would you let the devil have a shot at that soul. Let Gods grace fight him from the get go.

Right on!

 

[Zundrah]

The Catholic Church teaches us that it is necessary to baptize our children as soon as possible , to wipe out the effects of Original sin and to welcome them into the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself. If you are Catholic, you must aceed to this teaching. Even Methodists appearently believe in infant baptism, so why state that it is better to wait until a person can assent to baptism?

Okay, well if that is what the catholic church teaches then I guess that is what we should do.

 

[Zundrah]

Right on!

 

[hosemonkey]

Okay, well if that is what the catholic church teaches then I guess that is what we should do.

Now you are catching on. The Church is our Mother and good mothers always strive to do what is best for their children.

 

[Zundrah]

Now you are catching on. The Church is our Mother and good mothers always strive to do what is best for their children.

Well y’know I just keep forgetting that Christ gave to peter the power to bind and release. And everytime I remember this I think that obviously I should have no objections to what catholicism teaches.

 

[Mickey]

Jesus christ wasn’t baptized until he was around the age of 30.

We’ve already been over this one. Your reasoning claims that everyone should be baptized at age 30.

Let’s word it differently, children would be better off being baptized later on in life when they can understand and say; “Jesus Christ is my saviour and lord.”

That is a theology that was invented relatively recently. It is held by baptists, anabaptists, pentecostals, and some others. Even the early reformers adhered to the apostolic practice of infant baptism. As has been pointed out, some protestants adhere to infant baptism–including most Methodists and Presbyterians.

Baptizing an infant is no different to baptizing an athiest. The two don’t believe in God or Christ or even the trinity.

Infants can see the angels and talk to the Lord much easier than you or me. Christ said that we must have the faith of a little child. I cannot believe you said this.

 

[rinnie]

Okay, infants should be baptized. I suppose that the quicker we are baptized the batter, right?

Hmmm… Fine, baptise ther infants then. It would be better for them.

Oh yes my love. You give that soul to God. Think of it this way. We have free will. A baby does not have free will. We are responsible for them until a certain age. So at birth we offer that soul to God.

At confirmation usually the age of reason in the Catholic Church now you renew that Baptism promise. Its up to you now. You parents did their promise now its up to you. You either reject CHrist or accept him. You are on your own. Your parents taught you the word, now you either live it or you don’t. God still give’s you free will.

But why leave a soul all of them years open where the devil can attack. Think of Baptism promises Zun. Do you reject Satan etc. And we renew them every year in a Catholic Church.

My Dad used to say people who weren’t baptised and didn’t know the word of God were just lost empty souls. Don’t ever let that happen when you have a baby.

Give him to God. Right off the bat. Don’t give the devil a second.

 

[Zundrah]

We’ve already been over this one. Your reasoning claims that everyone should be baptized at age 30.
That is a theology that was invented relatively recently. It is held by baptists, anabaptists, pentecostals, and some others. Even the early reformers adhered to the apostolic practice of infant baptism. As has been pointed out, some protestants adhere to infant baptism–including most Methodists and Presbyterians.
Infants can see the angels and talk to the Lord much easier than you or me. Christ said that we must have the faith of a little child. I cannot believe you said this.

Mickey answered the post too late!

 

[Zundrah]

Oh yes my love. You give that soul to God. Think of it this way. We have free will. A baby does not have free will. We are responsible for them until a certain age. So at birth we offer that soul to God.

At confirmation usually the age of reason in the Catholic Church now you renew that Baptism promise. Its up to you now. You parents did their promise now its up to you. You either reject CHrist or accept him. You are on your own. Your parents taught you the word, now you either live it or you don’t. God still give’s you free will.

But why leave a soul all of them years open where the devil can attack. Think of Baptism promises Zun. Do you reject Satan etc. And we renew them every year in a Catholic Church.

My Dad used to say people who weren’t baptised and didn’t know the word of God were just lost empty souls. Don’t ever let that happen when you have a baby.

Give him to God. Right off the bat. Don’t give the devil a second.

Amen.

 

[Mickey]

Mickey answered the post too late!

Yes. My apologies.

 

[Zundrah]

Yes. My apologies.

 

[rinnie]

We’ve already been over this one. Your reasoning claims that everyone should be baptized at age 30.
That is a theology that was invented relatively recently. It is held by baptists, anabaptists, pentecostals, and some others. Even the early reformers adhered to the apostolic practice of infant baptism. As has been pointed out, some protestants adhere to infant baptism–including most Methodists and Presbyterians.
Infants can see the angels and talk to the Lord much easier than you or me. Christ said that we must have the faith of a little child. I cannot believe you said this.

You know what Mickey. This always puzzled me. Remember when your kids were little, or any baby, but anyway remember how you would see them in the crib reaching up and laughing like they see someone. It was angels for sure.

But here is the thing, Do we as humans not see them because we believe now that we are older we can’t? Do you see what I mean. Wonder if they are still there but we just don’t see them. Kinda like a forest for the trees kinda thing.

Guess what I am saying is I always wondered if in our own mind we convinced ourself we can’t see them. OR does God only reveal them to baby’s? Guess we will never know.

 

[Zundrah]

You know what Mickey. This always puzzled me. Remember when your kids were little, or any baby, but anyway remember how you would see them in the crib reaching up and laughing like they see someone. It was angels for sure.

But here is the thing, Do we as humans not see them because we believe now that we are older we can’t? Do you see what I mean. Wonder if they are still there but we just don’t see them. Kinda like a forest for the trees kinda thing.

Guess what I am saying is I always wondered if in our own mind we convinced ourself we can’t see them. OR does God only reveal them to baby’s? Guess we will never know.

I have met angels… I could even tell you theirs names!…
I have never told anyone since I first told a friend and she thought that I was getting a mental illness!
I saw them for (sometimes) a period of months when I was depressed.

This is very embarrassing…
My ministers were worried about me.

 

[Mickey]

remember how you would see them in the crib reaching up and laughing like they see someone. It was angels for sure.

No doubt.

Guess what I am saying is I always wondered if in our own mind we convinced ourself we can’t see them. OR does God only reveal them to baby’s? Guess we will never know.

I am convinced that this grace can be withdrawn from us as we are indoctrinated into worldy things. As we lose our innocence, as we become cynical, as we become capable of commiting actuals sins, we become spiritually injured. That is why confession is available to us–each confession is like another baptism.

But for some reason, we do not see the angels again–at least I don’t.

Remember, the faith of a mustard seed can move mountains. Please Lord, give me the faith of a mustard seed. Lord I believe. Help my unbelief.

 

[Mickey]

I have met angels… I could even tell you theirs names!

A great blessing indeed!

…But always be watchful. Scripture tells us that Satan can appear as an angel of light. If you see them again, make the sign of the cross. If they vanish, you know that they were not of God.

 

[rinnie]

No doubt.
I am convinced that this grace can be withdrawn from us as we are indoctrinated into worldy things. As we lose our innocence, as we become cynical, as we become capable of commiting actuals sins, we become spiritually injured. That is why confession is available to us–each confession is like another baptism.

But for some reason, we do not see the angels again–at least I don’t.

Remember, the faith of a mustard seed can move mountains. Please Lord, give me the faith of a mustard seed. Lord I believe. Help my unbelief.

Yeah Mick I kinda thought the same thing. I guess thats where actual sin as we call it moves in. But I do believe one thing, I know they are still there, I just can’t see them thats all.

God Bless you my friend and enjoy this wonderful beautiful day, You too zun. Its rained here all year and the next three days its gonna be in the high 90’s.

So I just finished up in the Salon and I am going to the tanning Bed (the pool)
The one God invented!

 

[Zundrah]

A great blessing indeed!

…But always be watchful. Scripture tells us that Satan can appear as an angel of light. If you see them again, make the sign of the cross. If they vanish, you know that they were not of God.

This is tue, I still need to be unsure of any vision I have! Satan can try to appear as God would.

 

[jlhargus]

Hi jIhagus Thanks for your reply. How can we be united with Christ in baptism, as you say, when baptism does not atone for sins? John makes it very clear Mat 3:11 that he baptizes with water for repentance. Heb 9:22 very clearly states, “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. That shedding of blood started with Adam & Eve as I mentioned in my reply on post 408… If one is united with Christ per water baptism (there is a Holy Spirit baptism too) why wasn’t Simon in Acts 8:13 united with Christ when he got baptized? He was later rebuked by Peter. The thief on the cross wasn’t baptized yet he was in Christ because of his belief. Why is Paul in Acts 19:4 telling the disciples that John’s baptism is insufficient to be saved? They must be baptized in the Holy Spirit. One can’t be saved without the Holy Spirit . Baptism is a sign of repentance, a turning to God by confessing their sins. But it’s not until one believes in Christ’s shed blood that one is then united with Christ. A person can be baptized many times over and also confess sins to God and still be unsaved. Like Simon wasn’t saved. It’s the belief in Jesus that saves. When the jailor asked Paul how can he be saved? Paul did not say go get baptized, he said believe in Jesus. When the jailor did so, he and his household were then baptized a sign of repentance and their start of a new spiritual life. Cornelius and company got saved by hearing the gospel being preached to them by Peter then later, they got baptized a turning to God. You site 1 Pet 3:21, but v20 must be read in order to get the clear meaning. It speaks about baptism for a good conscience that’s (repentance) but it’s the Resurrection of Jesus that saves. Read the following John 3:16,36; 5:24; Acts 16:31; Rom 1:17;4:5 they say nothing about baptism. Mark 16:16, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” Nowhere does it say,” whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” One must believe followed by baptism for repentance” Do you agree? ED O.

Hi Ed, I am working on answers to the above will post maybe Saturday or Sunday. The following is on original sin and may help you understand child baptism better.

ORIGINAL SIN
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0509fea4sb2.asp

Adam and Eve lived in a state of “original justice”: the state of integrity wherein their whole beings were ordered to the will of God. With the fall, man has been deprived of the gifts our first parents enjoyed. These gifts are commonly called the “preternatural and supernatural gifts.” With baptism, only the supernatural gifts are restored.

The preternatural gifts, lost in the fall, are: infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and freedom from death and sickness.

The supernatural gifts, restored in baptism, are: indwelling of God in our souls through grace, and the theological virtues (faith, hope, and charity).

Effects of Original Sin **** God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:1-24 that because of their sin they would have to work for a living, be at war with nature, suffer pain and sickness, and eventually die. Paul explains original sin in great detail in Romans5:12-19 and in 1Cor 15:21-22

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp
To Explain Infant Baptism You Must Explain Original Sin