Baptism of Christ

[t68ware]

I am reading in Matthew that when Jesus presented Himself to be baptised, John knew who He was, which is why John tried to dissuade Him from baptism from John. However, in the Gospel of John, John the Baptist says he didnt know who Jesus was until the Spirit descended upon Him.(John 1:33) This is an interesting difference between the Gospel writers. Thoughts??

 

[Mintaka]

There’s a heck of a lot of difference between knowing “Hey, that’s my cousin Jesus, the Son of David and promised Messiah! He ought to baptize me!” and knowing “Oh, crud, my cousin is God, the Son of God! I ought to grovel and hide my face!”

The crucial words in John are “because he was before me”. John was the elder cousin, remember? How could Jesus, humanly speaking, have come “before” John? Whereas obviously, God the Son was around before John or anything else in Creation, and can easily baptize with God the Holy Spirit.

 

[t68ware]

There’s a heck of a lot of difference between knowing “Hey, that’s my cousin Jesus, the Son of David and promised Messiah! He ought to baptize me!” and knowing “Oh, crud, my cousin is God, the Son of God! I ought to grovel and hide my face!”

The crucial words in John are “because he was before me”. John was the elder cousin, remember? How could Jesus, humanly speaking, have come “before” John? Whereas obviously, God the Son was around before John or anything else in Creation, and can easily baptize with God the Holy Spirit.

I dont think you understand my question…Matthew and Luke both show John knew Jesus was the Messiah before the baptism…John seems to implicate John **did not know **Jesus was the Messian until the Spirit lighted upon Him. Which one is it?

 

[fermat]

I dont think you understand my question…Matthew and Luke both show John knew Jesus was the Messiah before the baptism…John seems to implicate John **did not know **Jesus was the Messian until the Spirit lighted upon Him. Which one is it?

I could have been both. John was not omnipotent. Much of Israel was waiting for a warrior Messiah to liberate them from the Romans. Jesus was not the kind of Messiah. After the baptism, when John was in prison, he sent his own disciples to ask Jesus if He was the one they were expecting. If John knew this at the baptism, how did he seem to forget? He probably heard in prison what Jesus was doing and thought, ‘Hey, he isn’t doing what I thought he was going to do. Better ask about this.’ John was capable of doubt just like the rest of us. The differences in the gospels could be trying to show this development.

 

[Nita]

I dont think you understand my question…Matthew and Luke both show John knew Jesus was the Messiah before the baptism…John seems to implicate John **did not know **Jesus was the Messian until the Spirit lighted upon Him. Which one is it?

The passages in Matthew and Luke don’t necessarily show that John knew beforehand that Jesus was the one who would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. They just show that he was preaching about such a one prior to Jesus’ coming to him. * (Mt. 3:11-12) "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. …)*

What the subsequent verses show, where Jesus asks John to baptize Him, is that John recognized Jesus as being holier than he was. *(Mt. 3:14 “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”) * The two were cousins, approximately the same age. They no doubt knew each other fairly well. Perhaps John even wondered about the possibility of Jesus being the promised Messiah.
Also, when you look at the text, there is nothing to indicate that the baptism John felt Jesus should do for him was anything other than the water baptism which Jesus requested of John.
God had promised John the Baptist a sign that would identify for him the one who would baptize with the Holy Spirit. Until God provided that sign for John, how could he ever know for sure? If God was going to give John certain knowledge in some other way (say for eg., infused knowledge), there would have been no need for Him to promise John a visible sign.
John 32-34 …but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me “He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.” And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."