Baptism question

[eo_chibears]

Are there ever any scenarios where someone can enter the Catholic Church by being baptised without water? Thanks for the help! God Bless

 

[R_C]

Are there ever any scenarios where someone can enter the Catholic Church by being baptised without water? Thanks for the help! God Bless

The Sacrament of Baptism with water is the ordinary way.

The Church also teaches that “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.”

In this belief, the Church does consider that there are other such scenarios:

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

 

[in_servitude]

I’m not sure it applies in your situation, but if there are questions about the state of a person relative to baptism, the Church has a procedure where a conditional baptism is given. The condition being that the new baptism is considered invalid if the 1st one took hold. But, it could very well be that the Church will view the 1st one as completely valid as the previous poster demonstrated.

 

[eo_chibears]

This issue is in regards to my brother. He has grown to love the Church and attends mass with me on a regular basis. He feels that he is part of the Church without needing to go through the process of being baptised. He has never been baptised and does not think it is necessary for him to go through the process. He told me that getting water poured on his head shouldn’t be necessary for him to be a member of the church. I am not sure how to deal with this.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

This issue is in regards to my brother. He has grown to love the Church and attends mass with me on a regular basis. He feels that he is part of the Church without needing to go through the process of being baptised. He has never been baptised and does not think it is necessary for him to go through the process. He told me that getting water poured on his head shouldn’t be necessary for him to be a member of the church. I am not sure how to deal with this.

To be blunt, he’s wrong. See vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

In particular:

1229 From the time of the apostles, becoming a Christian has been accomplished by a journey and initiation in several stages. This journey can be covered rapidly or slowly, but certain essential elements will always have to be present: proclamation of the Word, acceptance of the Gospel entailing conversion, profession of faith, Baptism itself, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and admission to Eucharistic communion.

…

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

Three points:

• Baptism is NOT merely getting water poured on your head. It is God wiping away all past sin and original sin. This is a good thing.
• The Church recognizes the possibility of some unbaptized going to heaven, but this is never supposed to be relied upon. It is generally meant to apply to those who don’t explicitly believe in God or similar.
• The Church believes in seven sacraments. It is hard to say that you belong to it while denying that the one that serves as a gateway to the others actually does anything.

 

[FCEGM]

This issue is in regards to my brother. He has grown to love the Church and attends mass with me on a regular basis. He feels that he is part of the Church without needing to go through the process of being baptised. He has never been baptised and does not think it is necessary for him to go through the process. He told me that getting water poured on his head shouldn’t be necessary for him to be a member of the church. I am not sure how to deal with this.

If he is putting himself forth to receive the Eucharist, then he is committing a sacrilege as he has presumed himself to be a member of the Church in good standing without doing what the Church requires in order to partake of her sacramental life. He cannot truly claim to love the Church if he denies she has the authority to teach the requirement for Baptism that Christ Himself has set. He needs to let go of his pride and truly enter into union with Christ through the means He has established (His Church).

 

[KP3243]

This issue is in regards to my brother. He has grown to love the Church and attends mass with me on a regular basis. He feels that he is part of the Church without needing to go through the process of being baptised. He has never been baptised and does not think it is necessary for him to go through the process. He told me that getting water poured on his head shouldn’t be necessary for him to be a member of the church. I am not sure how to deal with this.

Just tell him Jesus didn’t NEED to be baptized by John the Baptist either since he was God and sinless and perfect but he did it anyways for us. In John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

 

[DoGodsBidding]

To be blunt, he’s wrong. See vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

In particular:

Three points:

• Baptism is NOT merely getting water poured on your head. It is God wiping away all past sin and original sin. This is a good thing.
• The Church recognizes the possibility of some unbaptized going to heaven, but this is never supposed to be relied upon. It is generally meant to apply to those who don’t explicitly believe in God or similar.
• The Church believes in seven sacraments. It is hard to say that you belong to it while denying that the one that serves as a gateway to the others actually does anything.

Great post. I will also note that Jesus himself was baptized (Matthew 3: 13-17) even though He did not need to do so.

DGB

 

[KP3243]

Just tell him Jesus didn’t NEED to be baptized by John the Baptist either since he was God and sinless and perfect but he did it anyways for us. In John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

Your Brother would also be receving the Holy Spirit which is why Jesus had John the Baptist baptize him. Jesus recieve his mission from the Holy Spirit through his baptism. Mark 1:9-11At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
As to the reason the Holy Spirit came in the form of a dove I believe goes way back to the flood in the Old Testament. When Noah send forth a dove to find a sign of life outside the ark. It came back with an olive branch. This is symbolic of the Holy Spirit guiding man to hope. The flood is also symbolic of Baptism as stated in 1st Peter 3:21. Just as baptism cleansed us of our sins, the flood cleansed the earth of its wickedness. So thats why I believe the Holy Spirit came in the form of a dove.

 

[in_servitude]

This issue is in regards to my brother. He has grown to love the Church and attends mass with me on a regular basis. He feels that he is part of the Church without needing to go through the process of being baptised. He has never been baptised and does not think it is necessary for him to go through the process. He told me that getting water poured on his head shouldn’t be necessary for him to be a member of the church. I am not sure how to deal with this.

In my past, I was not accepting of the authority given to the Church by Christ through the apostles. If someone blasted me and/or embarrassed me, I seriously doubt that I would have been open to the truth.

It might take a while, but it would be best if he is educated about what the Church really is. And, in the end - to love the Church is to understand that it is a visible source of truth and we should conform ourselves to the truth. He says he loves the Church, but his perception is inaccurate. Because, if he really knew, there’s no way he’d question it.

You posted this in the spirituality forum - which is interesting because that is the blind spot that he has right now. Do you know the “Come Holy Spirit” prayer? If not, learn it - and pray it around him and with him as often as you can. I think that’s what your brother needs at this point in his journey. We can be very grateful that he’s made it this far!

 

[eo_chibears]

Thank you all for your thoughful responses. It really helped and at supper this evening we will discuss this issue more. God bless all of you.