Baptism Saves!

[thistle]

I reply….YES LOOK!!!
Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least** in the kingdom of heaven,** but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called** great in the kingdom of heaven.**

Do you see it???
**IN the KINGDOM!!! **

NOW…
Now read this…
Matthew 11:11
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John the Baptist is NOT…
NOT in the Kingdom!.… John died before the Church was formed…
John died before he could be aDDED to the Body of Jesus!
John Died before he could be added to 'the Catholic Church!

John was NOT in the Kingdom because he was NOT Baptized!
If he was Baptized he would be “ADDED” to the Body Of Jesus!

It seems you are scared to directly answer my questions and instead are plucking verses from Scripture, putting your own interpretation on them and saying that is what the Church teaches. It is not the Church teaching.

ALL the Church teachings are summarised in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not your strange interpretations of Scripture.

The Church teaches:

• Baptism is NECESSARY for salvation.
• Baptism includes normal Baptism with running water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Baptism of Blood, and Baptism of Desire.
• There is no salvation outside the Church.

Do you accept these Church teachings? YES or NO?

 

[dogknox]

It seems you are scared to directly answer my questions and instead are plucking verses from Scripture, putting your own interpretation on them and saying that is what the Church teaches. It is not the Church teaching.
ALL the Church teachings are summarised in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not your strange interpretations of Scripture.
The Church teaches:

• Baptism is NECESSARY for salvation.
• Baptism includes normal Baptism with running water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Baptism of Blood, and Baptism of Desire.
• There is no salvation outside the Church.

Do you accept these Church teachings? YES or NO?

WORD FOR WORD… From catholic Answers…

• The Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that " extra ecclesiam, nulla salus" (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.”** But,** it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”*

Do you see the word "BUT"?? (above)
MORE… explanation…from Catholic Answers…
*To fulfill his Messianic mission, Jesus Christ took on a human body from his Mother. He lived a natural life in that body. He redeemed the world through that body and no other means. Since his Ascension and until the end of history, Jesus **lives on earth in his supernatural body, *the body of his members, his mystical body. Having used his physical body to redeem the world, Christ now uses his mystical body to dispense “the divine fruits of the Redemption” (Mystici Corporis 31).

thistle
** DO YOU UNDERSTAND???**
The Catholic Church IS… IS the Body of Jesus on EARTH… to enter heaven you** MUST** be saved by Jesus!!

Read on…EXAMPLE (below).
Paul, at the time of his conversion, had never seen Jesus. Yet recall how Jesus identified himself with his Church when he spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus: “Why do you persecute me?”

thistle The CHURCH… the Catholic Church… Is the Body of Jesus on earth!!
Jesus Christ and his Church are** indivisible**. They go hand in hand… You can’t get the one without the other!!!

Catholic Answers…
Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus* does not mean** that only faithful Roman Catholics can be saved.** The Church has never taught that.** So where does that leave non-Catholics and non-Christians?*

MORE… read on…
*People who have never had an opportunity to hear of Christ and his Church—and those Christians whose minds have been closed to the truth of the Church by their conditioning—are not necessarily cut off from God’s mercy. Vatican II phrases the doctrine in these terms:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).

Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery (Gaudium et Spes 22).*

thistle read the** “RED”** (above) part again… Would a Chinaman born in the second century NEVER EVER, having heard of Jesus… Never mind… The Bible or the Catholic Church OR BAPTISM get into heaven if he is NOT BAPTIZED!!?
**Answer is:**YES!!! IF…
If he is LOVING and follows his heart with ACTIONS!

try in their actions to do his will >>>as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—<<<

Don’t stop… it continues…
Every man who is ignorant of the gospel of Christ and of his Church but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it can be saved.* It may be supposed** that such persons **would have desired baptism explicitly if *they had known its necessity (CCC 1260).

You asked…

• Baptism is NECESSARY for salvation.
• Baptism includes normal Baptism with running water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Baptism of Blood, and Baptism of Desire.
• There is no salvation outside the Church.

Do you accept these Church teachings? YES or NO?

YES I am Catholic… YES they are TEACHINGS I accept!
CONTINUED…

 

[dogknox]

** thistle** Read on…** I CONTINUE… To explain!!**
I point out… “To be Saved INTO the KINGDOM” you MUST be** IN **Jesus… If you are NOT IN Jesus you are NOT… You can NOT be “Child of God!” it is just this simple…

The people just found out they killed God’s Son so they ask Peter.."WHAT Shell we Do?"
******Acts 2:38 **
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ **for the forgiveness of your sins. **And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

thistle DO YOU SEE IT?!
"Repent and be baptized, for the forgiveness of your sins. Receive the GIFT!!"
Baptism REMOVES Sins!
Mark 1:4
And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a** baptism of repentance** for the forgiveness of sins.

BUT the Church and Jesus work together… when they Baptize… They Reform the person INTO the Body of Jesus… they re-Form the “Dust Of The Earth” into the Body Of Jesus!
The Bride does the washing with the waters… She removes the sins >>As Johns Baptism<<< BUT…
But the Groom also adds his part… The Groom sends the GIFT… not with Johns baptism!
The Bride is our Mother… Church!
The Groom is our Father… God!
The Catholic has Two, Two, Two parents NOT ONE!

Adam was FORMED with “EARTH & Spirit” and the second |Adam is also formed with “EARTH & SPIRIT” the two Adams are equal!

thistle Baptism is for children and Infants…
****39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

READ ON… Acts 2 continues…
****40 **With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added **to their number that day.

The Baptism of the Bride and the Groom “ADDS” people to the Body Of Jesus!
Three Thousand were **“ADDED” **to the Body of Jesus because they accepted the Message of the Church!

John the Baptist** was NOT baptized… by the Church he had NOT received the “GIFT**”!
John went to heaven because, he was without sin.… he was Baptized, his sins were removed… BUT he was NOT added to the Body Of Jesus!

There was NO Bride yet… Jesus could** NOT** send the GIFT YET… he had NOT rose!

The "Thief On the Cross was without sin… he went to heaven,… >@$ ALSO like John, he was** NOT Baptized into the |Body of Jesus**… he COULD** not **have been “ADDED” to the Body Of Jesus!
He also ended up with John in the Garden!

FACT: PARADISE is NOT the Throne room the Church is IN the Throne room!

 

[thistle]

You have explained nothing. You said you accept the teachings I posted but you go on to then misinterpret them. Your posts are gibberish and you seem somewhat manic with all the different colours and frantic attempts to use Scripture to prove something you don’t understand. Are you on medication?

Let’s start again, and if you respond can you please stop with colours and give us short and to the point answers otherwise there will continue to be no other contributers to the thread. Nobody understands your wild rantings.

Baptism is NECESSARY for salvation. Baptism means being reborn in Christ. Salvation is only through Christ.
The normal means of Baptism is with running water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. At the moment of baptism original sin and personal sins are taken away. Personal sins can then occur repeatedly throughout a person’s life. Confession is the way for a person to be reconciled to Christ. Being baptised and believing in Christ is not enough to save you. Your destination at death is determined by the state of your soul at death. If you die in a state of unrepented mortal sin then the destination is Hell. If you die in a state of grace then you are saved (either straight to Heaven or more likely Purgatory first).

The above Baptism is the normal means of baptism. The others are:

Baptism of Blood. Someone who dies for the Christian faith before having access to the normal sacrament of baptism.

Baptism of Desire (there are two types - Explicit and Implicit)
Examples of Explicit Baptism of Desire would be those in the RCIA program, and also the criminal on the Cross beside Jesus.
Example of Implict would be a person in invincible ignorance, i.e. someone through no fault of their own does not know Christ, his Gospel, or his Church but who lives a life according to the teachings of Christ without knowing it.

There is no salvation outside the Church. This holds true as those who die with Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire are deemed to be members of the Church.

Not all Catholics go to Heaven but everyone in Heaven is Catholic.

Everyone who rejects Christ and his Church and they die unrepentent in that state condemns themselves to Hell.

Do you understand?

 

[dogknox]

You have explained nothing. You said you accept the teachings I posted but you go on to then misinterpret them. Your posts are gibberish and you seem somewhat manic with all the different colours and frantic attempts to use Scripture to prove something you don’t understand. Are you on medication?

Let’s start again, and if you respond can you please stop with colours and give us short and to the point answers otherwise there will continue to be no other contributers to the thread. Nobody understands your wild rantings.

Baptism is NECESSARY for salvation. Baptism means being reborn in Christ. Salvation is only through Christ.
The normal means of Baptism is with running water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. At the moment of baptism original sin and personal sins are taken away. Personal sins can then occur repeatedly throughout a person’s life. Confession is the way for a person to be reconciled to Christ. Being baptised and believing in Christ is not enough to save you. Your destination at death is determined by the state of your soul at death. If you die in a state of unrepented mortal sin then the destination is Hell. If you die in a state of grace then you are saved (either straight to Heaven or more likely Purgatory first).

The above Baptism is the normal means of baptism. The others are:

Baptism of Blood. Someone who dies for the Christian faith before having access to the normal sacrament of baptism.

Baptism of Desire (there are two types - Explicit and Implicit)
Examples of Explicit Baptism of Desire would be those in the RCIA program, and also the criminal on the Cross beside Jesus.
Example of Implict would be a person in invincible ignorance, i.e. someone through no fault of their own does not know Christ, his Gospel, or his Church but who lives a life according to the teachings of Christ without knowing it.

There is no salvation outside the Church. This holds true as those who die with Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire are deemed to be members of the Church.

Not all Catholics go to Heaven but everyone in Heaven is Catholic.
Everyone who rejects Christ and his Church and they die unrepentent in that state condemns themselves to Hell.
Do you understand?

(I use the colors to tie one thought with an equal thought) So you will NOT miss a thing, obviously it does not work for you…because you have!
I reply… Lets get to a common ground…
**FIRST: ** A person MUST be… they HAVE to be, Baptized to be “IN” the Church!
The person MUST be Baptized to Be “IN” Jesus!!! “Do you understand”?.. “IF”…

If you are** NOT** re-formed into the Body of Jesus you are NOT… You CANNOT be a “Child of God”!
ALL people’s until they are baptized are…“Children of Adam”!
ALL people’s are born “Children of Adam” all are born CORRUPTED!!!

Adam was formed from “EARTH & Spirit”!
thistle Jesus is a second Adam… he must be equal to the first Adam in every way! Do you understand?
Recap.… Baptism forms people into the Body of Jesus… The Catholic Church!
Until baptism, all peoples are children of Adam!

SECOND: “Jesus sits to the Right of the Father”… So, All people “IN” Jesus will sit to the Right of the father!
“Jesus judges Angels”…So, All people “IN” Jesus will judge Angels!
FACT: The Church is in the Throne room, the Apostles are sitting on thrones in the Throne Room!
The Church is the Body of Jesus… To be FORMED into the Body of Jesus… A person MUST be… They have to be Baptized!
Do you understand?
Recap..Baptism forms people into the Body of Jesus… The Catholic Church!
Until baptism, all peoples are children of Adam!
ALL “IN” the Body of Jesus will enter the Throne room!
If you are NOT, Re-FORMED into the Body of Jesus, then you are a “Child of Adam”!

thistle If you are NOT re-Formed into the Child of the King, you will NOT enter the Throne room!

**THIRD: ** The Bride… re-forms the “Dust Of The Earth” with the waters of Baptism… She re-forms the Earth into a new form… The Form of the second Adam… Jesus!
The Groom… sends the GIFT of the Holy Spirit… Thus the Body of the second Adam. is also FORMED with “Earth & Spirit” as the first Adam!

The earth came out of the waters at creation… The waters were made holy because the Holy Spirit Hovered over the waters… ALL of creation came out of the waters so all of creation was formed HOLY!
Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The WATERS of Baptism are used to wash the sin of Adam away AS they Re-FORM the earth! So the second Adam is formed Holy as the first Adam was originally formed Holy, out of the HOLY WATERS!
2 Peter 3:5
But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and** the earth was formed out of water and by water. **

Do you understand??
Recap… It takes TWO, Two, two parents to form a child!
Mother… Bride, The Catholic Church!
Father… Groom, God!
Catholic’s have two parents… all children have two parents.
The Mother does the forming of the Children!
The Children of God have two parents… “Church and God!”
All the Children of God are re-formed HOLY, into the Body of Jesus, the second Adam!

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make** her holy,** cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, **but holy and blameless. **

 

[thistle]

(I use the colors to tie one thought with an equal thought) So you will NOT miss a thing, obviously it does not work for you…because you have!
I reply… Lets get to a common ground…
**FIRST: ** A person MUST be… they HAVE to be, Baptized to be “IN” the Church!
The person MUST be Baptized to Be “IN” Jesus!!! “Do you understand”?.. “IF”…

If you are** NOT** re-formed into the Body of Jesus you are NOT… You CANNOT be a “Child of God”!
ALL people’s until they are baptized are…“Children of Adam”!
ALL people’s are born “Children of Adam” all are born CORRUPTED!!!

Adam was formed from “EARTH & Spirit”!
thistle Jesus is a second Adam… he must be equal to the first Adam in every way! Do you understand?
Recap.… Baptism forms people into the Body of Jesus… The Catholic Church!
Until baptism, all peoples are children of Adam!

SECOND: “Jesus sits to the Right of the Father”… So, All people “IN” Jesus will sit to the Right of the father!
“Jesus judges Angels”…So, All people “IN” Jesus will judge Angels!
FACT: The Church is in the Throne room, the Apostles are sitting on thrones in the Throne Room!
The Church is the Body of Jesus… To be FORMED into the Body of Jesus… A person MUST be… They have to be Baptized!
Do you understand?
Recap..Baptism forms people into the Body of Jesus… The Catholic Church!
Until baptism, all peoples are children of Adam!
ALL “IN” the Body of Jesus will enter the Throne room!
If you are NOT, Re-FORMED into the Body of Jesus, then you are a “Child of Adam”!

thistle If you are NOT re-Formed into the Child of the King, you will NOT enter the Throne room!

**THIRD: ** The Bride… re-forms the “Dust Of The Earth” with the waters of Baptism… She re-forms the Earth into a new form… The Form of the second Adam… Jesus!
The Groom… sends the GIFT of the Holy Spirit… Thus the Body of the second Adam. is also FORMED with “Earth & Spirit” as the first Adam!

The earth came out of the waters at creation… The waters were made holy because the Holy Spirit Hovered over the waters… ALL of creation came out of the waters so all of creation was formed HOLY!
Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The WATERS of Baptism are used to wash the sin of Adam away AS they Re-FORM the earth! So the second Adam is formed Holy as the first Adam was originally formed Holy, out of the HOLY WATERS!
2 Peter 3:5
But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and** the earth was formed out of water and by water. **

Do you understand??
Recap… It takes TWO, Two, two parents to form a child!
Mother… Bride, The Catholic Church!
Father… Groom, God!
Catholic’s have two parents… all children have two parents.
The Mother does the forming of the Children!
The Children of God have two parents… “Church and God!”
All the Children of God are re-formed HOLY, into the Body of Jesus, the second Adam!

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make** her holy,** cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, **but holy and blameless. **

Total gibberish! No wonder your thread has no other posters.

I’m not going to keep repeating what the Church teaches because you either have no understanding of it or you reject it.

 

[dogknox]

PJM you said…

OK if you say so; but it’s Not what Jesus teaches:

John.3: 5 "Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, [Baptized] he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

I REPLY: with scripture…
Matthew 11:11
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet** he who is least in the kingdom **of heaven is greater than he.

PJM John was NOT in the Body of Jesus!
John was NOT baptized with the GIFT… The Holy Spirit!
John was Baptized for the forgiveness of sins… but he did not receive the gift… from the Groom.
PJM The Body of Jesus… the Church was not yet formed… John died before Pentecost!

Jesus sits to the right of the father… all “IN” the Body of Jesus will sit to the right of the Father!
Jesus judges Angels… all** “IN”** the Body of Jesus will Judge Angels!
1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

Baptism Re-FORMS people into the Body Of Jesus… The Catholic Church!

The Church is in the Throne room… The Apostles are sitting on thrones in the Throne room!
The Child of the King enters the throne room!

PJM John was NOT baptized…>>> INTO the Body Of Jesus<<<
** he who is least in the kingdom **of heaven is greater than he.

BEING IN THE KINGDOM IS TO BE, IN THE CHURCH!

The Thief on the cross was NOT baptized; into the Church… they both ended up in the Garden…** Paradise is a Garden**… It is NOT the Throne room, it is NOT in the KINGDOM!

Paradise is a Garden it is Greek for the word EDEN!
Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me** in paradise**.”
Dogknox

 

[dogknox]

PJM you said…

OK if you say so; but it’s Not what Jesus teaches:
John.3: 5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, [Baptized] he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

I REPLY: with scripture…
Matthew 11:11
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet ** he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.**

PJM John was NOT in the Body of Jesus!
John was NOT baptized with the GIFT… The Holy Spirit!
John was Baptized for the forgiveness of sins… but he did not receive the gift… from the Groom.
PJM The Body of Jesus… the Church was not yet formed… John died before Pentecost!
** he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than JOHN.**

Jesus sits to the right of the father… all “IN” the Body of Jesus will sit to the right of the Father!
Jesus judges Angels… all** “IN”** the Body of Jesus will Judge Angels!
1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

Baptism Re-FORMS people into the Body Of Jesus… The Catholic Church!

The Church is in the Throne room… The Apostles are sitting on thrones in the Throne room!
The Child of the King enters the throne room!

PJM John was NOT baptized…>>> INTO the Body Of Jesus<<<
** he who is least in the kingdom **of heaven is greater than he.

BEING IN THE KINGDOM IS TO BE, IN THE CHURCH!

The Thief on the cross was** NOT** baptized; into the Church… they both JOHN and the THIEF ended up in the Garden…** Paradise is a Garden**… It is NOT the Throne room, it is NOT in the KINGDOM!

Paradise is a Garden it is Greek for the word EDEN!
Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me** in paradise**.”
Dogknox

 

[dogknox]

Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his** message** were baptized, and about three thousand were** added** to their number that day.

Baptism saves because: There is only ONE son… Just “ONE!” IF…
If you are NOT in the body of Jesus you are** NOT** “A Child of God”! It is just this simple!

Three Thousand were** “ADDED”** to the Body of Jesus because they accepted the Message from the Church! The MESSAGE?!

The** Message** was “be saved be Baptized”! Be. “ADDED to the Body of Jesus”!!!

The Church pleaded, she warned… be saved!
All who accepted the Message were saved… 3000 were added to the Body of Jesus in one day!

Dogknox

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

This thread is pointless. God can act outside of His Sacraments, but the Sacraments are the normal means as given to the Church. Your posts are giving me epilepsy. You could probably start a very…“colorful” new denomination with your interesting theories.

 

[dogknox]

This thread is pointless. God can act outside of His Sacraments, but the Sacraments are the normal means as given to the Church. Your posts are giving me epilepsy. You could probably start a very…“colorful” new denomination with your interesting theories.

Nathan Wagar Are you Catholic???

Catholic’s believe the scriptures. NO protestant believes, “baptism saves”!
Baptism is a foundation of the Church, Jesus formed. Baptism is NOT pointless.
Baptism is only SYMBOLIC… for all man formed protestant churches!

Dogknox