Baptism ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter tkjensen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tkjensen

Guest
I am Catholic and we got married in a Lutheran church with a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor. We are trying to determine how we will baptize our baby this January. What happens to my status as a Catholic if my baby is baptized Lutheran? I have not found any definitive answers anywhere.

Thanks.
 
Well, presuming (a big presumption, I suppose) that because a priest participated in your marriage, you received a proper dispensation to be married in the Lutheran Church, you would have still promised to baptize and raise any children Catholic. So, minimally, what would happen is that everyone will know you are a liar and make promises and vows you do not keep. I guess.
 
Well, presuming (a big presumption, I suppose) that because a priest participated in your marriage, you received a proper dispensation to be married in the Lutheran Church, you would have still promised to baptize and raise any children Catholic. So, minimally, what would happen is that everyone will know you are a liar and make promises and vows you do not keep. I guess.
That sounds crankier than it is meant. I mean the message, but please ignore the crabbiness . . . :o
 
I am Catholic and we got married in a Lutheran church with a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor. We are trying to determine how we will baptize our baby this January. What happens to my status as a Catholic if my baby is baptized Lutheran? I have not found any definitive answers anywhere.

Thanks.
nothing happens to your status. your baby is a Lutheran. Is that what you want for her? if so, why? (this question assumes you are Catholic and wish to remain Catholic, and recall the promise you made when you married to raise your child Catholic). It has to be pretty serious to make you want to break that solemn promise.

missing info: were you married with the proper dispensations so that you are “married in the Church” no matter where it took place? that is the thing that determines your status.
 
Dear tkjensen;

While one may be baptized in a Roman Catholic Church, or a Lutheran Church, or a Episcopal Church (location / denomination);
one is not baptized a Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc.
One is baptized into the christian church through the name of the Trinity and sealed as Christ’s own.

In service to Christ,
Br Mark, OSB
 
I am Catholic and we got married in a Lutheran church with a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor. We are trying to determine how we will baptize our baby this January.
Did you not discuss this **before **you were wed?

Raising your child Catholic is a requirement of receiving a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic. From Canon Law:

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;

3/ both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage which neither of the contracting parties is to exclude.
What happens to my status as a Catholic if my baby is baptized Lutheran? I have not found any definitive answers anywhere.
This is very serious. Your obligation is to raise your children in the Catholic faith. From Canon Law:

Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand offer their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
 
nothing happens to your status.
Actually, it can have canonical ramifications:

Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand offer their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
 
Dear tkjensen;

While one may be baptized in a Roman Catholic Church, or a Lutheran Church, or a Episcopal Church (location / denomination);
one is not baptized a Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc.
One is baptized into the christian church through the name of the Trinity and sealed as Christ’s own.

In service to Christ,
Br Mark, OSB
Br. Mark,

Are you a Catholic? This is absolutely INCORRECT.
 
Dear 1ke;

Yes I am a Roman Catholic. And I disagree with your opinion.
In the past the Roman Catholic Church would at times “re-baptise” individuals converting from non-roman catholic churches but this is no longer the case.

There is one baptism and one baptism only; one can not be re-baptised —for this would be untheologically sound.

Read I Cor 12:13a

Perfer nothing to Christ,

Br Mark, OSB
 
I am Catholic and we got married in a Lutheran church with a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor. We are trying to determine how we will baptize our baby this January. What happens to my status as a Catholic if my baby is baptized Lutheran? I have not found any definitive answers anywhere.

Thanks.
Every Catholic agrees to do everything reasonably possible to have their children Baptized and raised in the Catholic Faith before being permitted to Marry a non-Catholic. If you just agree to allow this without any attempt to prevent a Lutheran Baptism. Then you have failed to meet your promised obligation.
 
Dear 1ke;

Yes I am a Roman Catholic. And I disagree with your opinion.
In the past the Roman Catholic Church would at times “re-baptise” individuals converting from non-roman catholic churches but this is no longer the case.

There is one baptism and one baptism only; one can not be re-baptised —for this would be untheologically sound.

Read I Cor 12:13a

Perfer nothing to Christ,

Br Mark, OSB
Br. Mark,

The Catholic Church in times past would routinely Conditionally Baptize every person “converting” from a non-Catholic Christian Community. Generally without any real investigation. Today for Ecumenical reasons. Those seeking full union with the Catholic Church from other Christian Communities have their non-Catholic Christian Baptism investigated by the Catholic Church and only if serious doubt exists are they Conditionally Baptized. It is simply that we no longer toss everyone into the same bucket. But carefully look at each and every case individually.
 
Dear tkjensen;

While one may be baptized in a Roman Catholic Church, or a Lutheran Church, or a Episcopal Church (location / denomination);
one is not baptized a Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc.
One is baptized into the christian church through the name of the Trinity and sealed as Christ’s own.

In service to Christ,
Br Mark, OSB
Perhaps I’m unclear what this intends to say or the perspective from which it arises but it appears to need clarification.

According to doctrine and canon law, baptism in the Catholic Church would incorporate the person into the Catholic Church rather than create some kind of membership in a more broadly conceived “christian church” which is a sum of parts.

We understand that the Church of Christ, which he established, subsists in the Catholic Church. These other ecclesial communities may reflect aspects of that Church, but are not in full communion with it.

Canons 204 and 849 might be consulted.
 
Dear 1ke;

Yes I am a Roman Catholic. And I disagree with your opinion.
Your prior post implied that it doesn’t matter whether she baptizes her child in the Catholic Church or the Lutheran church.

The canons I posted in Canon Law indicate otherwise. Please reconcile your statement with the requirements of the Catholic Church spelled out in Canon Law.
In the past the Roman Catholic Church would at times “re-baptise” individuals converting from non-roman catholic churches but this is no longer the case.
Conditional baptism is absolutely done when the validity of the baptism is uncertain. Baptism (there is no such thing as “rebaptism”) is definitely done when a person was originally “baptized” in a non-trinitarian denomination or religion (such as Mormon, Oneness Pentecostal, etc).
There is one baptism and one baptism only; one can not be re-baptised —for this would be untheologically sound.
This is in no way applicable to the original post, which is about the baptism of the OP’s child. She absolutely is obligated to baptize her children in the Catholic church and raise those children Catholic.

If they are baptized in the Lutheran church they are NOT Catholics.
 
I am Catholic and we got married in a Lutheran church with a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor. We are trying to determine how we will baptize our baby this January. What happens to my status as a Catholic if my baby is baptized Lutheran? I have not found any definitive answers anywhere.

Thanks.
This was the situation of a (former) Catholic friend of mine. What happened was that his priest denied his participation in all roles that require a “Catholic in good standing”, i.e., lector, EMHC, godparent. As a result, this friend is no longer Catholic.
 
Dear ike;

I might be alittle slow here but what canon law are you referring to?
The one’s that you cited do not uphold your position. The document that I referred to from Vatican II seems to support the position that I have taken.

I would also refer you to documents of agreement concerning the sacrament of baptism between the Cathollic Church, Lutheran Churches, and the Anglican Church.

Br Mark, OSB
 
Actually, it can have canonical ramifications:

Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand offer their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
perhaps but it does not affect her status under canon law, which was her question, she is getting plenty of censure right here on this thread.
 
Dear ike;

I might be alittle slow here but what canon law are you referring to?
The one’s that you cited do not uphold your position.
The ones I posted in my first post. But, to recap:

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand offer their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
The document that I referred to from Vatican II seems to support the position that I have taken.
And, what exactly is your position? Is it your position that a Catholic can or should baptize their child in the Luthern community and raise them as a Lutheran?
I would also refer you to documents of agreement concerning the sacrament of baptism between the Cathollic Church, Lutheran Churches, and the Anglican Church.
I am not disputing the validity of non-Catholic baptism.

I am disputing your (seeming) position that a Catholic may baptize their child in a non-Catholic ecclesial community.
 
This was the situation of a (former) Catholic friend of mine. What happened was that his priest denied his participation in all roles that require a “Catholic in good standing”, i.e., lector, EMHC, godparent. As a result, this friend is no longer Catholic.
Well, he broke the promises he made when he married, to baptize and raise his children in the Catholic church. This would seem to indicate that he lied in order to marry in the church or that he doesn’t value a promise made to the church or that he doesn’t value his Catholic faith enough to carry out his promise. And it casts strong doubt on his intention to raise his children in the faith. This would indicate that he isn’t a ‘Catholic in good standing’.

Not baptizing the child in the Catholic faith is objectively serious matter, especially in regards to his solemn promise. Since he did not rectify the matter, it would appear that he did not repent of his action. Not knowing the real condition of his soul, it would appear that he persisted in serious sin. In that case, the priest would be correct in his action.

If your friend repented, went to confession, and did whatever was necessary to have the baptism registered in his parish, it would seem that he would again be a Catholic in good standing if he could assure the pastor that other children would be baptized in the Catholic church.
 
Ok, I just wanted the facts of this situation…not everyone’s opinion of me being a liar and not being a Catholic, etc. The Catholic Church I grew up in taught me not to judge people, but it seems people on this forum are more interested in judging than giving me accurate information. I am a firm Catholic and my wife is a firm Lutheran and that is how come this is a very difficult decision for us and one of us is going to have to compromise to get our first child baptized. Thanks to those that gave me accurate information and not their personal 2 cents.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top