Baptism

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Its okay,im just trying to make you think about what Jesus thinks of it all,

If you happen to recieve Him ‘Truly’ at Rome,that shows he is willing to come into you/your soul

Why ,do you think Jesus would allow you to be denied to take him in another Church if its ‘Truly’ Him there as well

Does Jesus say to some people at an Orthodox Church,’ sorry but i cant come into you here,im not allowed to"

Why there(RC) and not here(EO)?
 
Paul,

I am assuming you received baptism in the Catholic Church first. The reason I say this is because the Catholic Church would not baptize you if you were already baptized in an Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox baptism, chrismation, and Eucharist as valid. So, if you had already been baptized Orthodox the Catholic Church would not baptize you.

The Orthodox do not recognize these sacraments of the Catholic Church. That is why I suspect you were first baptized as a Catholic, and then for some reason in the Orthodox Church.

The Catholic Church would consider you to be a Catholic if you were first baptized into the Catholic Church.

You should go talk to a Catholic priest and lay out all the facts.

It’s not clear to me why you are attending both Churches. The Catholic Church views all of the Sacraments in the Orthodox Churches as valid. However, attending divine liturgy at an Orthodox Church does not fulfill your obligation to attend Catholic Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation.
 
Attending the Orthodox Divine Liturgy does not fulfill the Catholic obligation.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

If a Catholic is *unable *to attend a Catholic Church, there is no obligation.
 
Sorry i just had in mind that i was talking to a women,perhaps i had previous female posters still fresh in my mind

To refrain from being further a ‘smart alec’
i was just asking your opinion on what you think the difference in Jesus Christ being in the Chalice at Rome and in the Chalice at say Moscow.

Im aware the Bishops(the church) are at odds with eachother
But if Jesus comes into you at Rome ,for what reason would he not be able to come into you at Moscow.

Obviously because Moscow would deny you.

But does Jesus deny you? when your at Rome?

He doesnt deny you at rome ,but he deinies you at Moscow,why?

At Rome you get a pass to go to Jesus but at Moscow the Clergy stop you.

Why would the Moscow Clergy come between you and Jesus?

As nothing stops you at Rome.

Thats if of course you really are recieving Jesus at Rome.

Im not being smart sir,im asking seriously.
 
1ke said:
Paul,

I am assuming you received baptism in the Catholic Church first. The reason I say this is because the Catholic Church would not baptize you if you were already baptized in an Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox baptism, chrismation, and Eucharist as valid. So, if you had already been baptized Orthodox the Catholic Church would not baptize you.

The Orthodox do not recognize these sacraments of the Catholic Church. That is why I suspect you were first baptized as a Catholic, and then for some reason in the Orthodox Church.

The Catholic Church would consider you to be a Catholic if you were first baptized into the Catholic Church.

You should go talk to a Catholic priest and lay out all the facts.

It’s not clear to me why you are attending both Churches. The Catholic Church views all of the Sacraments in the Orthodox Churches as valid. However, attending divine liturgy at an Orthodox Church does not fulfill your obligation to attend Catholic Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation.
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Yes i was Firstly Baptised at Rome.

It has helped learning more about the Catholic faith and talking to Catholic Priests.

As the other poster said ,i flip flop between Churches.

One minute im Orthodox,next Roman Catholic.

I have no problem being a Catholic but if i take the Orthodox stance of things i would have nothing to do with Rome and flee far away from it.

But i like Rome very much,but having attended Orthodox Ch. for some years i have a tendency to follow what they believe also.

I believe i experience God at Rome so i sometimes say 'What do the Orthodox really know about Rome anyway,they just seem to throw stones at RC from over their side of the fence with out ever really knowing whats over the side or what goes on there.
 
DavidKays said:
Hi! I am Greek Orthodox and Paul I will like to assure you that your first Baptism was real and any others are not necessary and are in fact invalid. You can only be baptized once. Any others are not valid. This does not mean that Orthodox Baptism is invalid. What it means is that you have received your Baptism at a Church and therefore cannot be repeated. Had you been at a Orthodox Church first than this Baptism was valid. It does not matter where you receive it because Orthodox and Catholics acknowledge each others Sacraments. I must disagree with my Orthodox brethren regarding Catholic reception of Orthodox Sacraments because both Churches have valid Sacraments and therefore the Jesus on the Orthodox altar and the Jesus on the Catholic Altar is the same Jesus and therefore it is not necessary to rebaptize or reconfirm a Roman Catholic. If a RC wishes to come to an Orthodox Church there may be problems but the problem is with the priest not the Church. Sure the Orthodox have statements regarding Roman Catholics coming to receive but I am fully against such behavior. Our Roman Catholic brethren have the right to receive our Sacraments just as Orthodox have the right to receive the Sacraments of the Church of Rome. I am making bold statements here and I am writing a book as to clarify my position. I know this will anger many Orthodox ( I do not know about the RC ) but I feel enough is enough! Our world is crumbling under the weight of its own iniquity and let us bury and I mean bury this feud. We need to be brothers again so we can go hand to hand to fight this onslaught that we are engaged. It must drive Our Lord crazy to see all this bickering and I am going to make a statement here that will offend alot of people. I believe it is sinful to continue this feud and anyone who wishes to continue it sins and anyone who wishes for unity will please God. I mean God needs us to help Him convert the world. He doesn’t need us fighting each other! We have to be concern of Our Lord’s interests not our own. Put aside your pride and let us acknowledge each other as brothers. That is all it takes to end this. Statements from the Orthodox regarding the RC are not pleasing to God. I mean that is His Church as well! We Orthodox need to wake up because our RC brethren are in need of us. We have the power and wisdom to know the better and I believe we are at a crucial time now with this planet been engage in a all out war. Our battle is not with flesh and blood! It is amazing how the devil got us fighting each other! He is having a good time with this. Let us face the truth and turn this around and excuse my expression kick his butt. We need to face this enemy and together we can " kick his butt!" I know my language can be a light heavy but I need to say it and we need to face our enemy together and not divided. My book will explain much more and read my other posts to see for yourself the many points I want to clarify on. God Bless!
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This is quite incorrect. To partake of the eucharist with one whom your bishop is not in communion carries with it an automatic excommunication and requires confession to correct. This convention far predates the East-West Schism.

They may be our brothers, but they are not us, and while I fully support excellent relations with them and working toward unity, we are not there yet, and pretending we are is dishonest to ones self, and the church whole.
 
Nine_Two said:
This is quite incorrect. To partake of the eucharist with one whom your bishop is not in communion carries with it an automatic excommunication and requires confession to correct. This convention far predates the East-West Schism.

They may be our brothers, but they are not us, and while I fully support excellent relations with them and working toward unity, we are not there yet, and pretending we are is dishonest to ones self, and the church whole.
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I dont know who my Bishop is.
 
Paul_theApostle said:
how do i settle the question
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You seem to be looking for someone to answer that question for you. Nobody can. I get the feeling you were attracted to Orthodoxy because it seemed exotic, you don’t appear to have a very deep knowledge of it.

Read the Fathers and pray. May God guide you to an answer.
 
Paul_theApostle said:
If i was?
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It doesn’t particularly change anything one way or another, it is simply an observation. If that is the case I would suggest you spend some time studying the faith in depth. I strongy suggest “The Orthodox Church” by Timothy Ware (Now Metropolitan Kallistos).
 
Nine_Two said:
Which Church do you agree with on the issues that seperate them? For example, do you believe Communion with Rome is necessary? .
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What seperates them,theological differences,or hatred?

Is it necessary? (Comm. with Rome)
 
When I attended a Roman Catholic Mass once I had a fear that I may not be accepted. I prayed to my Lord because I felt too many people were telling me what to do and I wanted His approval or disapproval so I prayed. Within a short while the Communion hymn came and the words strucked me " Do not be afraid! “. If it takes a excommunication from my bishop then so be it! I am not doing anything wrong. It seems we obey men more than God! This is what I tried to point out in my 1st post. There seems to be a lack of understanding of who were are disrespectful to. I believe we are disrespectiveful to God when we act divided and I wish not to do so. Now if people are waiting for an announcement that the Church is united you might as well wait for an eternity. For me the Church is united! Period! What happened almost 1000 years ago was a Big Heated Arguement! That is all. Differences in theology is OK with God. May be the Churches still fight over these issues but who cares. I don’t. I see in each other something they can teach or help me with. I mean I have a brother I mean a blood brother and I am sure I do not want him to be me. I accept him and his ways and his differences because I love him. To say to my brother " Ok brother you do not think like me so I will try to teach you to be more like me” does not suit well with me. Our differences can help us. There is something my brother can teach me and there is something I can teach my brother. We can share. That is the basis for unity! We all have something to give to the other. I do not believe I have it all. My brothers have something to teach me. I go to them with that humble attitude so as to be edified. We can all learn from each other. We are not individuals but a Communion! Gosh how can 2 Churches act like this, divided. No we are a Communion and until we all or most of us believe in this Communion then yes divided we are. But in my eyes and I believe in Our Lord Jesus eyes we are His Body, now remember His Body ( and His Body can never be divided ) and no one can say otherwise to Our Lord this Truth! It is to God that we think about and not to the Church. For the Church is in error when She believes in this division and for those who have the eyes and the heart to believe in its unity see beyond to Our Lord and bury finally what the devil started and which men continue to do so. Let us think about Our God. It is His Church. Not ours. We can all think about Him can we not and see in His Heart His Desires and Words. People can make mistakes and I believe we can help Our God and ask forgiveness for what we have done to His Church. God Bless!
 
DavidKays said:
When I attended a Roman Catholic Mass once I had a fear that I may not be accepted. I prayed to my Lord because I felt too many people were telling me what to do and I wanted His approval or disapproval so I prayed. Within a short while the Communion hymn came and the words strucked me " Do not be afraid! “. If it takes a excommunication from my bishop then so be it! I am not doing anything wrong. It seems we obey men more than God! This is what I tried to point out in my 1st post. There seems to be a lack of understanding of who were are disrespectful to. I believe we are disrespectiveful to God when we act divided and I wish not to do so. Now if people are waiting for an announcement that the Church is united you might as well wait for an eternity. For me the Church is united! Period! What happened almost 1000 years ago was a Big Heated Arguement! That is all. Differences in theology is OK with God. May be the Churches still fight over these issues but who cares. I don’t. I see in each other something they can teach or help me with. I mean I have a brother I mean a blood brother and I am sure I do not want him to be me. I accept him and his ways and his differences because I love him. To say to my brother " Ok brother you do not think like me so I will try to teach you to be more like me” does not suit well with me. Our differences can help us. There is something my brother can teach me and there is something I can teach my brother. We can share. That is the basis for unity! We all have something to give to the other. I do not believe I have it all. My brothers have something to teach me. I go to them with that humble attitude so as to be edified. We can all learn from each other. We are not individuals but a Communion! Gosh how can 2 Churches act like this, divided. No we are a Communion and until we all or most of us believe in this Communion then yes divided we are. But in my eyes and I believe in Our Lord Jesus eyes we are His Body, now remember His Body ( and His Body can never be divided ) and no one can say otherwise to Our Lord this Truth! It is to God that we think about and not to the Church. For the Church is in error when She believes in this division and for those who have the eyes and the heart to believe in its unity see beyond to Our Lord and bury finally what the devil started and which men continue to do so. Let us think about Our God. It is His Church. Not ours. We can all think about Him can we not and see in His Heart His Desires and Words. People can make mistakes and I believe we can help Our God and ask forgiveness for what we have done to His Church. God Bless!
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Hi David,thanks for your comments,keep up your good will and faith:)

Although Churches become out of Spiritual Communion with eachother for reasons of Differences in their Beliefs.

As ive learnt the Catholics profress a different Creed or Statement of Belief to the Orthodox Churches and that amongst other differences causes the Churches not to be united,

Not united in the meaning that Orthodox Christians who dont Believe the same way that Catholics believe do not desire to Drink from the same cup as the Catholics do.

Perhaps you could research the Theology or Beliefs regarding each Church and see how they differ.

Also perhaps we can see and use as an example the Clergy of both Catholic and Orthodox Churches that they do not Celebrate the Eucharist together and drink from the same cup because of the reality of the Disunity.

God Bless you .

Paul.tA
 
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