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Steven_John
Guest
Peace and blessings,
what is meant by 'One Baptism" in the creed.
what is meant by 'One Baptism" in the creed.
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Bookcat
Guest
Catedhism:
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a10.htm#I
also…if a baptism is valid…it is the one baptism. for there is only one. Which is why those who are validly baptized by other Christians are not baptized when they enter into full communion with the Catholic Church. for there is only one baptism.
It can not be repeated…even if that valid baptism was done by a heretic in the early days of the Church …when the creed was formulated…
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#V
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a10.htm#I
also…if a baptism is valid…it is the one baptism. for there is only one. Which is why those who are validly baptized by other Christians are not baptized when they enter into full communion with the Catholic Church. for there is only one baptism.
It can not be repeated…even if that valid baptism was done by a heretic in the early days of the Church …when the creed was formulated…
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#V
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1ke
Guest
In the early Church there were two controversies surrounding baptism.
The first was whether someone who had committed apostacy or heresy had to be “rebaptized” if they came back to the Church in repentance. The Church affirmed that Baptism can be received only once. It is an indelible mark on the soul and cannot be repeated. Therefore, it is through the Sacrament of Penance that we are reconciled when we sin, not through another baptism.
The second was whether heretics or schismatics baptized validly so that if one born into a heretical or schismatic community wanted to become fully joined to the Church would they need to be baptized again or not. The Church affirmed that heretics and schismatics did baptize validly when they baptized in the Trinity. Therefore, a convert to the faith did not need to be “rebaptized.”
Therefore, we believe in ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
The first was whether someone who had committed apostacy or heresy had to be “rebaptized” if they came back to the Church in repentance. The Church affirmed that Baptism can be received only once. It is an indelible mark on the soul and cannot be repeated. Therefore, it is through the Sacrament of Penance that we are reconciled when we sin, not through another baptism.
The second was whether heretics or schismatics baptized validly so that if one born into a heretical or schismatic community wanted to become fully joined to the Church would they need to be baptized again or not. The Church affirmed that heretics and schismatics did baptize validly when they baptized in the Trinity. Therefore, a convert to the faith did not need to be “rebaptized.”
Therefore, we believe in ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
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NPC
Guest
The Church teaches that Baptism leaves an indelible spiritual mark. This mark shows that the baptised person belongs to Christ, and no sin can erase this mark. This is explained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church as follows:
If you would like to read more about the wider significance and practice of baptism in the Church, you should look at the Catechism and its cross-references with Scripture. A copy is available HERE from the Vatican website. Section 2 deals with the Sacraments.
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japhy
Guest
One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins
The Apostles’ Creed professes faith in the forgiveness of sins, that sins can be and are forgiven. The Nicene Creed says that there is one baptism for this forgiveness. There are two important elements in this clause: there is only one baptism and it bestows forgiveness.
One Baptism. Jesus at His Ascension charged the Church with the mission to “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” (Matt. 28:19-20) Disciples of Christ are made through Baptism and catechesis in the faith. The Church knows, as St. Paul taught, that there is only one Baptism. (cf. Eph. 4:5) So long as a man is baptized with the Trinitarian formula in water, he is validly baptized into Christ’s Church (although perhaps not in full communion with it); this is why a man brought up in, for example, a Baptist or Presbyterian community does not need to be re-baptized if he seeks full communion with the Catholic Church, provided he has been baptized validly. Baptism places an indelible mark on our soul that can never be removed: there is only one Baptism and we may be baptized only once.
Forgiveness of Sins. Among the various Protestant communities, there are many differing theologies on just what Baptism is. Some call it an “ordinance” (a command) rather than a “sacrament.” Some do not believe that infants can be validly baptized. Some do not believe it is necessary to be baptized. Some do not believe it saves a person or brings him forgiveness of his sins. What the Catholic Church teaches is that Baptism is a sacrament [an outward (visible) sign, instituted by Christ, which bestows grace] ordinarily necessary for salvation (cf. John 3:3-5) which forgives the baptized of all sin (original and actual) and removes all punishment due to that sin. (cf. Acts 2:38; 22:16; Catechism 978, 1999) Infants can and should be baptized as soon as is practical, although they have committed no personal sin, because they are conceived with the inherited original sin of Adam. Baptism is to the new covenant what circumcision was to the old covenant: the sign by which a person enters the covenant. Baptism saves us (cf. 1 Pet. 3:20-21), although it does not guarantee our salvation in and of itself. Baptism remits whatever actual sins we have committed before we receive it, but not those committed after we receive it; Christ gave His Church the sacrament of Confession for the purpose of reconciling those who sin after baptism.
The Apostles’ Creed professes faith in the forgiveness of sins, that sins can be and are forgiven. The Nicene Creed says that there is one baptism for this forgiveness. There are two important elements in this clause: there is only one baptism and it bestows forgiveness.
One Baptism. Jesus at His Ascension charged the Church with the mission to “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” (Matt. 28:19-20) Disciples of Christ are made through Baptism and catechesis in the faith. The Church knows, as St. Paul taught, that there is only one Baptism. (cf. Eph. 4:5) So long as a man is baptized with the Trinitarian formula in water, he is validly baptized into Christ’s Church (although perhaps not in full communion with it); this is why a man brought up in, for example, a Baptist or Presbyterian community does not need to be re-baptized if he seeks full communion with the Catholic Church, provided he has been baptized validly. Baptism places an indelible mark on our soul that can never be removed: there is only one Baptism and we may be baptized only once.
Forgiveness of Sins. Among the various Protestant communities, there are many differing theologies on just what Baptism is. Some call it an “ordinance” (a command) rather than a “sacrament.” Some do not believe that infants can be validly baptized. Some do not believe it is necessary to be baptized. Some do not believe it saves a person or brings him forgiveness of his sins. What the Catholic Church teaches is that Baptism is a sacrament [an outward (visible) sign, instituted by Christ, which bestows grace] ordinarily necessary for salvation (cf. John 3:3-5) which forgives the baptized of all sin (original and actual) and removes all punishment due to that sin. (cf. Acts 2:38; 22:16; Catechism 978, 1999) Infants can and should be baptized as soon as is practical, although they have committed no personal sin, because they are conceived with the inherited original sin of Adam. Baptism is to the new covenant what circumcision was to the old covenant: the sign by which a person enters the covenant. Baptism saves us (cf. 1 Pet. 3:20-21), although it does not guarantee our salvation in and of itself. Baptism remits whatever actual sins we have committed before we receive it, but not those committed after we receive it; Christ gave His Church the sacrament of Confession for the purpose of reconciling those who sin after baptism.
Praying the Mass: The Prayers of the People, pp. 93-94
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Steven_John
Guest
I am very grateful and praise G-d for your posts.
Its a bit of a silly question i know, but the essence of all i have read here is of the spirit baptism comes the sacramental side brings it about.
But the Church in the wisdom given her recognises the baptism of desire therefore acknowledges the Spirit Baptises without sacrament.
A person who did not die but testifies the Spirit did come upon them in a baptism of desire cant in right concience partake in the sacrament making testimony to the creed.
If one has a baptism through desire and feels the spirit come upon them and we see a visible change in them, what would the church do?
Its a bit of a silly question i know, but the essence of all i have read here is of the spirit baptism comes the sacramental side brings it about.
But the Church in the wisdom given her recognises the baptism of desire therefore acknowledges the Spirit Baptises without sacrament.
A person who did not die but testifies the Spirit did come upon them in a baptism of desire cant in right concience partake in the sacrament making testimony to the creed.
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NPC
Guest
Then maybe a good sign of this praise might be to refer to Him as GOD!
It wouldn’t be very wise to rely on a subjective “feeling” - how could one be sure that they received the Holy Spirit in a baptism of desire? If someone has a desire to be baptised in “water and the Spirit” - which is the ideal - then it is expected that they would be baptised in the Church. Of course there are exceptions - for example, if one is in a land where the Church doesn’t have a presence or where the Church is being persecuted.
As the Catechism says [1257]: “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments”. I suppose one example might be the Catechumens who are baptised at the Easter Vigil. They had a desire to follow Christ and be members of His Church before they entered the RCIA process. So did they have a baptism of desire? It is very likely that they did, however they will still be baptised with water as the Lord instructed the Church to do. Baptism with water is important because it is the formula that Christ gave the Church.
From the Catechism: THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM
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Steven_John
Guest
Clearly you knew who i referred to. Would yo have me respond saying a good sign from you would be to use His proper name?
Other than that you see my heart in the light an English teacher would.
The rest of you post was very valuable and appreciated.
I am going to step back form this thread as i seem to be a problem to some people.
I pray we all be blessed and guided
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NPC
Guest
It was merely an observation - I just thought it rather odd that you would be praising God, yet for whatever reason not be prepared to call Him thus…
Well, I came perilously close to becoming an English teacher, if that counts - and I tend to be rather pedantic
Certainly don’t on my account…if you have questions regarding baptism, ask them. We all have questions and we’re all here on CAF for the same reasons - to ask those questions, get answers to them, and to share our knowledge and experience of our faith.
I’m glad our responses so far have been of help to you.
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Steven_John
Guest
Hi have caught your response, recently the Catholic church ordered that people are to no longer use G-ds proper name in masses out of respect for Jewish people and some other reason.
These people we are told to change our Mass for also say not to write the o in G-d.
I dont agree with many of mans teachings and my parish doesn’t seem to give a hoot about the Vatican instruction though it may claim to be loyal to The Holy See or what ever is the correct terminology.
Seems as men we are full of contradictions.Seems in groups we embrace them.
I respect you all very much and dont want to offend just build a kingdom of love.
Love is putting myself aside for service to you without compromise to the truth. easy for My Father, not easy for My Brother (pbwh) but he did it, for me it does get confusing at times.
I tire of loving people as oft i draws greater judgement rather than loving question, My Father wants me to continue to the last breath.
I doubt it was your comment i really reacted to so apologise to you, i have been sent to serve some one here at CAF for the last couple of days and it has been hard.
In my prayer life G-ds proper name is very important to me, personally i love it in mass but My Father is a kingdom builder and i am subject to His authority even if those given authority are wrong without creating sin.
Again may you and G-d forgive me.
I pray Our Father bless and guide you and yours
These people we are told to change our Mass for also say not to write the o in G-d.
I dont agree with many of mans teachings and my parish doesn’t seem to give a hoot about the Vatican instruction though it may claim to be loyal to The Holy See or what ever is the correct terminology.
Seems as men we are full of contradictions.Seems in groups we embrace them.
I respect you all very much and dont want to offend just build a kingdom of love.
Love is putting myself aside for service to you without compromise to the truth. easy for My Father, not easy for My Brother (pbwh) but he did it, for me it does get confusing at times.
I tire of loving people as oft i draws greater judgement rather than loving question, My Father wants me to continue to the last breath.
I doubt it was your comment i really reacted to so apologise to you, i have been sent to serve some one here at CAF for the last couple of days and it has been hard.
In my prayer life G-ds proper name is very important to me, personally i love it in mass but My Father is a kingdom builder and i am subject to His authority even if those given authority are wrong without creating sin.
Again may you and G-d forgive me.
I pray Our Father bless and guide you and yours
J
japhy
Guest
The tetragrammaton “YHWH” (Yahweh, Yahoweh, etc.) and the word “God” are two very different things. One is a name, the other is a rather generic word. One is a personal revelation, the other is a title or description.
Historically, Christians did not use the name “Yahweh”. Jews did not pronounce the sacred Name, and Greeks used the word Kyrios (“Lord”) instead. The sudden appearance of “Yahweh” in Catholic music (and not in the liturgy, properly speaking) was an innovation. The Vatican document about not using the Name is very sensible.
The doctrinal teachings of the Church are not man’s, they are Christ’s. The disciplines are another matter, yes, but even they require assent and obedience. It’s about humility.
(P.S. You still have “God” written in your “Religion” and your signature. You might want to change it there if you wish to witness consistently to your decision.)
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Steven_John
Guest
Bless you and thanks
My reference to man was least of The One True Church but of the individuals who claim to be in Her but dispute Her and of course all of the great “authorities” here.
My reference to man was least of The One True Church but of the individuals who claim to be in Her but dispute Her and of course all of the great “authorities” here.
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