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jjmar60
Guest
Why are Catholics not Baptized like none Catholics as adults. And are we born again at our Infant Baptism
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TheMc
Guest
I’m not sure I completely understand your questions, but I will try to answer them.
There are many reasons, but here’s one very good reason: Without baptism, salvation is very difficult, if not impossible. Why would we wait to give them the grace of baptism? What happens if someone dies as a child before they are baptized?
Yes, to use the protestant terminology, we are “born again” at our baptism, whether it is when we are an infant, or when we are 90.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
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tbtcom1213
Guest
Born of the water = Sacrament of Baptism; original sin removed
Born of the spirit = Sacrament of Confirmation; reception of the Holy Spirit
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Hiskid1973
Guest
You could get that in that passage, but if you look at it at the response of going back in the womb…He explains the two types of birth, the flesh birth and the spirit birth…He even mentions that which is flesh is flesh that is of spirit is spirit…But I was responding to was that Jesus said it and was not something protestants made up, a rebirth experience…I had a radical conversion experience Aug.73…As for baptism we see repentance first…If
no repentance needed we could just drag them in and get em wet…Baptism is no guarantee.
The spirit needs reborn…If you see that as a baptism verse no problems with me…
I see others baptism scriptures…
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testamentum
Guest
I think these two passages go a long way to validating Infant Baptism;
(Luke 18:15-16) tells us that “they were bringing even infants” to Jesus; and he himself related this to the kingdom of God: "Let the children come to me for to such belongs the kingdom of God`
(Acts 2:38-39).
Thus Peter declared, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your childrenWhy would the fact of being an infant bar you from belonging to Christ and into His body(the church) are infants to die without such a precious gift as many have done because of Protestant inflexibility and puritanical doctrines?
Thanks be to God for the Catholic church.
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asd72
Guest
Hiskid1973,
Remember infants have nothing to repent of, they are cleansed of original sin only.
Remember infants have nothing to repent of, they are cleansed of original sin only.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
We’ll to be honest we don’t experience a NT baby baptism, we assume because they say household that babies were included…I know children at a young age understand sin/repentance with my own children…And going beyond that I know more who were baby baptized and became unbelievers/atheists and had conversion experiences as and adult compared to someone having/understanding a conversion experience and turning to an atheist…One thing for sure we know that the baby baptism isn’t a surefire ticket to heaven.
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asd72
Guest
Yes baptism isn’t a surefire ticket into heaven.
Catholics believe it does actually wash away original and actual sin though!
(Salvation can be described in terms of the past, present and future. It is PAST in reference to baptism, which saves us from the filth of our sins 1 Pet 3:21). It is a PRESENT reality when we allow grace to make us steadily more virtuous and holy (1 Cor 1:18). It is a FUTURE hope that we will for ever live with the Lord in glory (Heb 9:28). (CCC 969-1026). Cited in Ignatius study bible.
Catholics believe it does actually wash away original and actual sin though!
(Salvation can be described in terms of the past, present and future. It is PAST in reference to baptism, which saves us from the filth of our sins 1 Pet 3:21). It is a PRESENT reality when we allow grace to make us steadily more virtuous and holy (1 Cor 1:18). It is a FUTURE hope that we will for ever live with the Lord in glory (Heb 9:28). (CCC 969-1026). Cited in Ignatius study bible.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
I’d just change the past to repentance/baptism…
Amen, the older I get the more I long for my heavenly rest…I do recommend people live daily with their lamps filled and trimmed in these last days…A lukewarm faith is scary
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DrPiano
Guest
If you want to judge by that, I know a fair number of people who have prayed the sinners prayer and received a “believer’s baptism” and have since left the churches in which that happened. The sinner’s prayer isn’t a “surefire ticket to heaven” as you put it.
But then again, nothing is. Until the moment our soul leaves our body we have free will. That means an absolute freedom to choose to Love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, and put ourselves completely under his Lordship or to choose to reject Him. We choose to Remain in Jesus or not. So NOTHING is a “surefire ticket to heaven.” Because I can make one choice today and one tomorrow.
But what the Bible (and Church teaching) DOES tell us is that Baptism does something. Baptism cleanses us from Original Sin and any Personal Sin we have committed up to that point. And, as others have pointed out with other verses, children were welcomed by Jesus, welcomed by Peter, and welcomed by the Early Church. Do we definitively see infants being baptized? No. But we do see “whole households” being baptized, which could presumably have included infants. And as I reject Sola Scriptura anyway (it’s not in scripture itself, but that’s a question for another topic), I reject the premise that I have to show it explicitly in scripture
As for seeing Adult Catholics baptized - it happens EVERY Easter Vigil for those who were not baptized previously but are entering the Church. Baptism happens when you enter the church - it is, in fact, the sacrament necessary for ALL OTHER SACRAMENTS (the gateway to the church as the ECFs said). Babies just enter the church as… well… babies.
And being a former objector to infant baptism, I am REALLY looking forward to baptizing our little one shortly after he or she is born. Should be interesting since my parents still reject the practice
I wonder if they’ll still come…
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Tiberius1701
Guest
Not only do we see infant baptism as probable by looking to the New Testament verses cited by my Catholic brethren, but Paul also tells us that Circumcision is the Old Testament type of Baptism:
“In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead” (Col. 2:11-12).
As you can see here, baptism is what John was speaking about when he showed us Jesus saying we must be born again, because, through baptism, we are buried with Christ - hidden in the grave of Christ just as we were hidden in our mothers’ wombs - and then raised from the dead into the new life of Christ - born, as it were, again.
But, as I noted above, Paul also calls this new life, this “born again” experience, which is made possible by the Sacrament of Baptism, “a circumcision [not] done by the hands of man.” This is to say that baptism in the New Covenant of Christ is the fulfillment of and replacement for Circumcision in the Old. Therefore, if we want to see whether baptism is meant to include children of believing families in the New Covenant, we must ask, “was circumcision meant to include the children of believing families in the Old Covenant?” And that question is one that many dozens of passages from the Old Testament answer with a resounding, “Yes!!!”
Like DrPiano, I do not subscribe to the non-scriptural principle known as sola Scriptura, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t find the Catholic (and, in some denominations, the Protestant) practice of infant baptism written plain as day on many, many, many pages of Scripture…
“In Him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead” (Col. 2:11-12).
As you can see here, baptism is what John was speaking about when he showed us Jesus saying we must be born again, because, through baptism, we are buried with Christ - hidden in the grave of Christ just as we were hidden in our mothers’ wombs - and then raised from the dead into the new life of Christ - born, as it were, again.
But, as I noted above, Paul also calls this new life, this “born again” experience, which is made possible by the Sacrament of Baptism, “a circumcision [not] done by the hands of man.” This is to say that baptism in the New Covenant of Christ is the fulfillment of and replacement for Circumcision in the Old. Therefore, if we want to see whether baptism is meant to include children of believing families in the New Covenant, we must ask, “was circumcision meant to include the children of believing families in the Old Covenant?” And that question is one that many dozens of passages from the Old Testament answer with a resounding, “Yes!!!”
Like DrPiano, I do not subscribe to the non-scriptural principle known as sola Scriptura, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t find the Catholic (and, in some denominations, the Protestant) practice of infant baptism written plain as day on many, many, many pages of Scripture…
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