Baptism

[AdrianP]

Do this:

A church in darkness wears a band of death about it; a church that consorts with evil and evildoers shall close its doors.

and this
catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp
7 Benedict XVI (2005-) 111 Gloria olivæ
The Benedictine order traditionally said this Pope would come from their order, since a branch of the Benedictine order is called the Olivetans. St Benedict is said to have prophesied that before the end of the world, a member of his order would be Pope and would triumphantly lead the Church in its fight against evil. While the Holy Father chose the name “Benedict”, this does not seem enough to fulfil the prophecy. Nor is it clear how Benedict XVI (a Bavarian) is “Glory of the Olives”. Since he is said to have remarked in the Conclave after saying he would take the name Benedict that it was partly to honour Benedict XV, a pope of peace and reconciliation, perhaps Benedict XVI will be a peacemaker in the Church or in the World, and thus carry the olive branch.
In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oves in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis civitas septicollis diruetur, & Judex tremêdus judicabit populum suum. Finis.
(In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End.)

have something in common ? like VATICAN II

Lets dissolve Vatican II in union between Churches with Dogma of year 1000. Not under the Rotschild of course.Repetance and orthooxy can do much.

 

[AdrianP]

tldm.org/directives/d154.htm

 

[Mickey]

Ok Baptism is a personal decession of accepting Jesus into your life.

Infants are baptized into Christ. The Bible tells us entire households were baptized–this includes infants.

Now when Jesus was born he was “presented” to God, not baptized as a baby.

That was the Jewish custom. Now we are baptized into Christ and we put on Christ–some of us as infants–some of us as adults.

Then when he was a adult he was “baptized” by John the Baptist in the river Jordan.

Yes. And the Trinity was was revealed to us–showing us the importance of Holy Baptism.

Why was Jesus baptized as an adult and not as a baby?

Christ’s age is irrelevant. Your reasoning would seem to indicate that everyone is baptized somewhere around the age of 30.

Now Jesus was without original sin or any sin so why did Jesus get baptized if baptism is meant to take away original sin or any sin?

Acts 2:38
But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I’m just saying look at what the bible says

The Bible says whole households. I believe the Bible.

 

[rev_kevin]

Infants are baptized into Christ. The Bible tells us entire households were baptized–this includes infants.

I knew someone was going to say “household.”
Household- A term encompassing children and infants as well as servantes. While these texts do not specioically mention nor excludes infants, the very use of the term “household” indicates a understanding of the family as a unit. Even one believing parent in a household makes the children and even the unbelieving spouse “Holy.” {souce Catholic answers}
Before baptism one must hear and understand the Gospel:
Mark 16:15-16 What good would be done preaching to a infant?
John 6:44-45, 1 Cor. 14:20 One must learn who can a infant learn?
Acts 2:36,41 Can a infant hear and learn this way?
One must beleive in the Gospel:
Mark 16:15-16 Can a infant do these things?
Galations 3:26-27 Everyone whi is baptized must first understand the Gospel.
Can a infant do these things? NO

That was the Jewish custom. Now we are baptized into Christ and we put on Christ–some of us as infants–some of us as adults.

There are other Jewish customs or traditions that religions including Catholic still observe today like ------circumcision.

Yes. And the Trinity was was revealed to us–showing us the importance of Holy Baptism.

Christ’s age is irrelevant. Your reasoning would seem to indicate that everyone is baptized somewhere around the age of 30.

I never said the age of Jesus, I said he was a adult. He was a adult able to understand what he was doing. A infant can’t. One makes the decession to accept Christ into their hearts. Can a infant do that? NO. Is it up to the parents to make that kind of life decession for someone? NO

Acts 2:38
But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I quess this means “Household” Read what the Catholic answer above says. Acts 2:38 means: If you want to follow Christ, you must “turn from your sins and turn to God and be bapitzed.” To turn means to repent, changing the direction of your life from selfishness and rebellion against God’s laws. Can a infant do this? NO

The Bible says whole households. I believe the Bible.

The Bible says what I stated above, affirmed by Catholic Answers, backed up by Scripture.

 

[Benadam]

The Minister for Baptism cannot be anyone but an ordained priest except for a Baptism of desire in emergency situation.

Though you have spelt out the intention for Baptism and that is what it should be and I think it’s admirable, I think for a Baptism to be valid a person Baptized needs only to have the **fundamental intention **- believing that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Blessed Holy Trinity) and to renounce Satan.

.

Saying the words the Church say’s, and doing it the way the Church does it, almost makes the intention to do what the Church does a given.:twocents:

 

[Reuben_J]

Saying the words the Church say’s, and doing it the way the Church does it, almost makes the intention to do what the Church does a given.:twocents:

Absolutely. But if you are Baptized by a priest, going through insruction and follow up on further instruction and live the Sacramental life, you’ll gonna be alright. I thought not to disqualify those who have the basic intention because everything else will fall into place because you have the Church to see to it. Or maybe I’m just being not careful.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Whatever befalls those who were baptised by blood then?

Do they still have a shot at heaven?

 

[Benadam]

Whatever befalls those who were baptised by blood then?

Do they still have a shot at heaven?

It’s my understanding that a Baptism of blood, this is a baptism into a death/birth experience that is so joined to Christ that it is eucharistic. The smell of fresh baked bread wafted the air around I think it was St Polycarp.

A Baptism in blood, it imprints the pattern of death and resurrection, sears the pattern of Christ’s life, purges and perfects the soul. dressed and groomed , fit to sit at the table of the King.

 

[StrawberryJam]

It’s my understanding that a Baptism of blood, this is a baptism into a death/birth experience that is so joined to Christ that it is eucharistic. The smell of fresh baked bread wafted the air around I think it was St Polycarp.

A Baptism in blood, it imprints the pattern of death and resurrection, sears the pattern of Christ’s life, purges the soul, so it can proclaim Christ’s victory over the law of death. That’s how I understand it.

That is about the most beautiful way I ever heard it explained to me, and it will remain in my memory forever now, until I loose my faculties anyway.

You are certainly a teacher by nature, thank you for helping me really “see” what you say in a way I can feel and understand.

I am stunned by your reply, because that is what I invisioned in my thoughts about the martyrs…

Thank you so much for helping me on this one!

 

[Benadam]

Your welcome and thank you. Just don’t look at the edit

 

[StrawberryJam]

Your welcome and thank you. Just don’t look at the edit

:blush:

 

[Mickey]

The Bible says what I stated above

The Bible says that whole households were baptized. That includes infants. You still have no response to that.

 

[AdrianP]

So if you say ANTI VATICAN II is anti Semitic I can deduce from here that you believe VATICAN II is Semitic. Why do you believe such ?
A non christian man getting Christian money si annoying.
Why are yoiu not concerned with Rothschild managing Catholic money is both Anti Christian and Anti Catholic. Do you care about something being ANTI CATHOLIC or you name yourself Catholic even if your hearth is somewhere else?

 

[AdrianP]

Exposing truth should be welcomed by both Catholics and Christians .

Let me give you a scenarion of why they would not be able to unite. The scenario starts with a Church maybe not being free and having money managed by a non christian. Maybe the man keeping Catholic Church prisoner wants all the Christian money and would not accept the rules of FREE Early Church and wants to change that so he gets all Christian money.

Maybe the man having catholics money does not want the Union of Churches, does not want a Free Church and having the means to stop that, he may do just that. MAybe the man having Catholics money is scared by Orthodoxy and tries to introduces new doctrines, FALSEHOODS. Maybe this is why you need to add salt to HOLY WATER.

If truth is getting annoying, good for you. You may just WAKE UP.

Reading some prophecies , they said either in Catholic Church either in Orthodox Church, breaking will be easily overcome by Devil.

 

[rev_kevin]

The Bible says that whole households were baptized. That includes infants. You still have no response to that.

I beleive I have in post 24 but incase you missed it here it is again.
HOUSEHOLD----A term encompassisng CHILDREN and INFANTS as well as SERVANTS.
While thest texts DO NOT SPECIFIALLY mention nor EXCLUDES infants, the very USE of the term “HOUSEHOLD” indicates a understanding of the family as a UNIT. Even one believing parent in a household makes the CHILDREN and even the UNBELIEVING spouse 'HOLY." {source Catholic Answers}
Now the Bible does not specifialy say the word “infants” as stated above. What about the statement that “ALL BELIEVERS.” Can a infant “believe?” Can a infant understand the meaning behind baptism?
So the infant baptism can go eather way. So lets stop going over the basics of Christianity again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start all over again. We need don’t need futher instruction about baptism. So God willing we will lmove forward to further underatanding.

 

[Mickey]

HOUSEHOLD----A term encompassisng CHILDREN and INFANTS as well as SERVANTS…

Great. So we agree. Households includes infants. Whole households were baptized. Hence infants were baptized in the very early Church. That was easy–was it not?

" Can a infant “believe?”

Absolutely. They are very pure and very close to God. Jesus Christ said “Let the little childern come to me”.

Can a infant understand the meaning behind baptism?

Absolutely. They can talk to the angels. My infant daughter was calm and peaceful and glowing after her baptism. She was baptized into Christ and she knew it. And now we teach her how to be the best Christian she can be.

So the infant baptism can go eather way.

Of course. The apostolic Church says that we can be baptized as infants or adults.

Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding.

The Holy Church and the Sacred Scripture has given us all we need for mature understanding for 2000 years. This includes infant baptism as valid. Will **you **accept the mature understanding?

 

[JonNC]

Great. So we agree. Households includes infants. Whole households were baptized. Hence infants were baptized in the very early Church. That was easy–was it not?

Absolutely. They are very pure and very close to God. Jesus Christ said “Let the little childern come to me”.

Absolutely. They can talk to the angels. My infant daughter was calm and peaceful and glowing after her baptism. She was baptized into Christ and she knew it. And now we teach her how to be the best Christian she can be.

Of course. The apostolic Church says that we can be baptized as infants or adults.

The Holy Church and the Sacred Scripture has given us all we need for mature understanding for 2000 years. This includes infant baptism as valid. Will **you **accept the mature understanding?

Jon

 

[rev_kevin]

Great. So we agree. Households includes infants. Whole households were baptized. Hence infants were baptized in the very early Church. That was easy–was it not?

It doesn’t say eather way. It does not specifially say they can or can’t. Pretty vagu if you ask me. Is the word household the only thing to prove your point. I noticed you didn’t comment on the “believers” part of the discussion, only your part.

Absolutely. They are very pure and very close to God. Jesus Christ said “Let the little childern come to me”.

Look at the whole picture about Jesus blessing children to get the right meaning instead of one little phrase. See it was customary for a mother to bring her children to a rabbi for a blessing, and that’s why these mothers gathered around Jesus. But the disciples thought the children were unworthy of Jesus’ time, or that they were less important. But Jesus welcomed them because children have the kind of innocent’s needed to enter the Kingdom of God and that we are to approach Jesus with a childlike attitude of acceptance, faith, and trust. Like I said look at the whole picture to get the true meaning behind the statement.

Absolutely. They can talk to the angels. My infant daughter was calm and peaceful and glowing after her baptism. She was baptized into Christ and she knew it. And now we teach her how to be the best Christian she can be.

Ask your daughter or yourself if she or you remember talking to angels as a infant. I’ll bet the farm you don’t remember. And if you say you do your are a liar because nobody remembers anything at that age, and there is proof by science. All children look that way to parents during proud moments in their life. Ask your daughter if she remembers being baptized and what it meant at that time. I’ll bet the farm again she don’t. If a infant talked to angels and know why they are being baptized, why do you need to teach her/them anything about being the best Christian she can be if she already talked to angels and know why she was being baptized.

Of course. The apostolic Church says that we can be baptized as infants or adults.

Never said they couldn’t.

The Holy Church and the Sacred Scripture has given us all we need for mature understanding for 2000 years. This includes infant baptism as valid. Will **you **accept the mature understanding?

Once again I never said that infant baptism wasn’t valid. As far as the Church goes
Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “God put all things under the authority of Christ, and he gave him his authority for the benefit of the church. And the CHURCH IS HIS BODY, it is filled by Chirst, who fills everything everywhere with his presence.” Another one is Colossians 1:18 says “Christ is the head of the church, which is his body…” All you can come up with is “the true church.” I have given you the true church and it is Christ.

Now I find that your statement “Will you accept the mature understanding” means your understanding only. If so thats pretty immature because a mature person would look at all views and all sides of everything and accept the views of others even if you don’t agree with them. See I accept your views, as a mature person, but that don’t mean I agree with them.

 

[Mickey]

Once again I never said that infant baptism wasn’t valid.

Oh good, then we agree!

Colossians 1:18 says “Christ is the head of the church, which is his body…”

Christ as the head of the Church has never been disputed.

Now I find that your statement “Will you accept the mature understanding” means your understanding only.

I am referring to the Apostolic understanding.

a mature person would look at all views and all sides of everything and accept the views of others even if you don’t agree with them.

There is only one truth.

 

[rev_kevin]

Oh good, then we agree!

Christ as the head of the Church has never been disputed.
I am referring to the Apostolic understanding.

There is only one truth.

Micky, I’m so happy that we have finally agreed on something after all the bickering we had in the past. God bless