Baptismal regeneration

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LionHeart777

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Hello,

I am a Protestant Christian who is considering the claims of the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. One of my hurdles in looking at both is the teaching that the Spirit comes by means other than faith.

my understanding that the Spirit is given when one believes is from Galatians 3:2, Ephesians 1:13, Acts 10:44------I have read this–
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9901chap.asp

but it does not adress the 1st two passages I mention.

Thank you,
 
LionHeart777 said:
Hello,

I am a Protestant Christian who is considering the claims of the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. One of my hurdles in looking at both is the teaching that the Spirit comes by means other than faith.

my understanding that the Spirit is given when one believes is from Galatians 3:2, Ephesians 1:13, Acts 10:44------I have read this–
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9901chap.asp

but it does not adress the 1st two passages I mention.

Thank you,
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What teaching of the Church conflicts with this? Are you equating the Works of the Law in Galatians with Obedience of Faith that the Church professes?

And the Seal of the Holy Spirit comes in Baptism. What in Ephesians disagrees with this.
 
LionHeart777 said:
I am a Protestant Christian who is considering the claims of the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. One of my hurdles in looking at both is the teaching that the Spirit comes by means other than faith.
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Lionheart, I think this is the answer you’re looking for:
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
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When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
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Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!” (Acts 8 14-20 NIV)
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And so you see, you have to harmonize all the relevant scriptures: if you believe, then you will obey (John 1:36), and you will be baptized, because “baptism saves” (1 Peter 3:21), and you will “receive the Holy Spirit” from an apostolic authority (bishop) in the Sacrament of Confirmation, which confirms your baptism. Our Lord did it this way so that children, babies even, could come to him (Luke 18:16) and be baptized into the Kingdom (cf. Acts 16:15, 1 Corinthians 1:16); and then when you come of age you can choose for yourself to confirm your faith and receive this powerful sacrament, so you can grow to a mature faith and understanding. :yup:

Now go back and read all the relevant scriptures and hopefully it will all make sense this way (keeping in mind the exceptions that Jimmy Akin mentioned in that article). God bless 🙂
 
Greetings!

Thanks for responding,

I am honestly considering converting to Orthodoxy or RCC (leaning more towards Orthodoxy right now.)

like I said, still have a few Theological issues I would need to get cleared up.

NotWorthy,

let me post the verses maybe to give you a clearer idea of my protests.

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” Galatians 3:2

It seems to me that Paul is saying that the Galatians received the Holy Spirit by believing the Gospel

Romans 10:17 comes to mind: “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”

I see the same in Ephesians 1:13

" In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

I see the same here–trusting in Christ/believing the Gospel as the prereq for obtaining the Spirit

This is how I’ve seen it, hence my objection, maybe I’m wrong–

Luke65,

I will go back and look at the relevent Scriptures, thanks

thank you both,

Nick
 
Dear LionHeart777,

I am a fairly recent convert to the RCC. I was taught and believed in Sola Fide. I slowly realized that I was interpreting Christ’s words through the lens of Sola Fide instead of interpreting Paul’s letters through the lens of Christ’s words. Once I changed my point of view I realized that faith was not alone.

Yes, Faith is necessary for salvation. Yes, obedience to Christ in terms of doing good deeds, Baptism, and partaking of the Body and Blood, are also necessary. Consider them the other side of a coin.
 
One of my hurdles in looking at both is the teaching that the Spirit comes by means other than faith.

**Faith is more than an active intellectual assent to certain propositions by the individual. It’s a RELATIONSHIP, and one in which God, not the individual, takes the initiative. This is why I say that modern American pop-evangelicalism tends towards Pelagianism (the heresy that one can save himself).

God takes the initiative in this relationship, and we know from diverse scriptures that it begins in infancy and even in utero.

Hope this helps.**
 
Randy_Carson said:
Why I Didn’t Convert to Eastern Orthodoxy
By Fr. Brian W. Harrison, O.S.
catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0810fea3.asp
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I will disagree with something he said:

<<I was running up against the rather obvious fact that Orthodoxy is, well, not exactly catholic. It lacks the cultural universality and openness, the capacity to provide a true and welcoming home for all the world’s tribes and nations, that is in fact one of the four marks of the true Church: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. >>

The history of Orthodoxy is quite different from his perception of it.

Orthodoxy is simply not wide-spread in Australia; that’s all.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I will disagree with something he said:

<<I was running up against the rather obvious fact that Orthodoxy is, well, not exactly catholic. It lacks the cultural universality and openness, the capacity to provide a true and welcoming home for all the world’s tribes and nations, that is in fact one of the four marks of the true Church: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. >>

The history of Orthodoxy is quite different from his perception of it.

Orthodoxy is simply not wide-spread in Australia; that’s all.
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You disagree with his statement that Orthodoxy is not culturally universal?

Maybe it’s more prevalent where you live, but in this part of the US, I have never met a soul who is Orthodox.

And for all its pedigree and claims to antiquity, etc., Orthodoxy has had surprisingly little impact on the course of history and has little influence on the world stage.

Quick…when a major event happens somewhere in the world, does the news media rush to get a Patriarch’s take? Or do they go to the Vatican to see what the Pope has to say?

Can anyone even name a single Orthodox Patriarch?
 
thanks 4 the links,

I never said I thought faith was just intellectual assent (I’m not sure)

not all Protestant Theologians would hold to this—especially many Reformed (Calvinists) (I.e. John Macarthur for ex) and I don’t tghink even Luther had this in mind. I would say that my idea was trust. Trust in Christ for salvation, knowing that one is a lost sinner and that He is the only refuge.
 
btw my Scripture quotes are from KJV Study Bible (Red Letter Edition)—don’t want to plaigarize, if it’s plaigirizing
 
LionHeart777 said:
Hello,

I am a Protestant Christian who is considering the claims of the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. One of my hurdles in looking at both is the teaching that the Spirit comes by means other than faith.

my understanding that the Spirit is given when one believes is from Galatians 3:2, Ephesians 1:13, Acts 10:44------I have read this–
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9901chap.asp

but it does not adress the 1st two passages I mention.

Thank you,
Click to expand...
Are you separating baptism from faith? If so, why? The Apostles never did. 🤷
 
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