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biffoqueen
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We only have baptisms on Sunday after last mass or maybe Saturday afternoon never during mass that would be most unusual.
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WhiteLeather
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Sacraments, by their nature, are actions of the gathered faithful. Think about the text in the Rite of Baptism. I don’t have my books at home, but somewhere in the ritual text is a sentence where the clergy says words to the effect that “the Church welcomes you.” On a Saturday in a nearly empty nave with a couple of families only, does that mean the building?My husband and I were looking at our parish website for baptism information (due next St Patty’s Day if all goes well!) and it said that baptisms are only on Saturdays between 10am and 12pm. This seemed odd to me, and also very disappointing. I guess I never noticed that we didn’t have baptisms during Mass…But it just seems to me that an important part of the sacrament is welcoming the child into the Church family, and that having a tiny ceremony with only whichever friends and relatives can afford to or care enough to travel across the country doesn’t have much of a joyous community feel. Our parish isn’t the most friendly, so we don’t know many people, but I was looking forward to everyone welcoming our future arrival in the way that it is normally done.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is there anything I can do? I guess some people would love the more intimate setting, but to me it just feels isolating, like no one in the parish wants to be bothered with the small amount of extra time added to the Mass that it would take to welcome a child.
We are the church, not a building. Like the immediate family, we, the church family, also welcome our newest members. This welcoming (like all sacraments) is best accomplished with the church is together - the Sunday Mass.
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Gorgias
Guest
Is Reconciliation an ‘action of the gathered faithful’, or is it between a confessor and a penitent?Sacraments, by their nature, are actions of the gathered faithful.
Is the Anointing of the Sick a ‘action of the gathered faithul’, or is it between a priest and a sick person?
No, it means that the priest is speaking on behalf of the Church. In fact, the very next line after the one you referenced is “*n its name I claim you for Christ our Savior.”Think about the text in the Rite of Baptism. I don’t have my books at home, but somewhere in the ritual text is a sentence where the clergy says words to the effect that “the Church welcomes you.” On a Saturday in a nearly empty nave with a couple of families only, does that mean the building?
Sacraments aren’t accomplished in degrees – ‘best’, ‘worst’, ‘just ok but could’ve been better’…! They simply are; my baptism (in the presence of my family) isn’t qualitatively different or ‘sub-optimally accomplished’ than yours in the context of a Sunday Mass.Like the immediate family, we, the church family, also welcome our newest members. This welcoming (like all sacraments) is best accomplished with the church is together - the Sunday Mass.
Think about what you’re saying: it implies that a Mass with just a celebrant and one person in the congregation isn’t as ‘well accomplished’ as one with hundreds of celebrants. That just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. :nope:
More to the point: sacraments ‘work’ because of the action of those who perform them, not because of the presence (or despite the absence of) external observers…!*
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Andreas_Hofer
Guest
In parishes where Sunday-Mass-Baptism is the norm (such as my own), one often hears that Baptism in the midst of the Sunday assembly is the optimal form of celebration. One is certainly free to argue that opinion, but it runs up against a pretty clear countervailing bias in the liturgical books.
The Rite of Baptism for Children states:
9. To bring out the paschal character of baptism, it is recommended that the sacrament be celebrated during the Easter Vigil or on Sunday, when the Church commemorates the Lord’s resurrection. On Sunday, baptism may be celebrated even during Mass, so that the entire community may be present and the relationship between baptism and eucharist may be clearly seen; but this should not be done too often. Regulations for the celebration of baptism during the Easter Vigil or at Mass on Sunday will be set out later. (emphasis added)
Those promised regulations come in the section on “Adaptations by the Minister”, indicating that (29) “if baptism takes place during Sunday Mass” this form of celebration is exceptional rather than the rule.
Sunday, on the other hand, does remain the ideal, but even then no more forcefully than as a recommendation (both in the above-cited ritual text and in Code of Canon Law can. 856).
None of this is meant to gainsay the sign value of a gathered community into which the newly baptized child enters, and the Church in fact desires that baptism “should be conferred in a communal celebration for all the recently born children, and in the presence of the faithful” (Rite of Baptism 32). Sacraments are objectively just as valid no matter how minimal their celebration, but the Church prefers fuller use of signs and solemnity because of their greater capacity for *subjective *influence upon recipient (not relevant here) and witnesses. Accordingly, it is better to have a more broadly assembled group of the faithful representing the Church, but this need not be the whole group of regulars at a Sunday Mass and the Church thinks it sufficient to have a group “at least of relatives, friends, and neighbors.” It’s not a maximalizing desire, just an admonition to avoid the minimal practice which used sometimes to consist of the godparents taking the baby to the church without even the mother - recovering from childbirth - being present.
The Rite of Baptism for Children states:
9. To bring out the paschal character of baptism, it is recommended that the sacrament be celebrated during the Easter Vigil or on Sunday, when the Church commemorates the Lord’s resurrection. On Sunday, baptism may be celebrated even during Mass, so that the entire community may be present and the relationship between baptism and eucharist may be clearly seen; but this should not be done too often. Regulations for the celebration of baptism during the Easter Vigil or at Mass on Sunday will be set out later. (emphasis added)
Those promised regulations come in the section on “Adaptations by the Minister”, indicating that (29) “if baptism takes place during Sunday Mass” this form of celebration is exceptional rather than the rule.
Sunday, on the other hand, does remain the ideal, but even then no more forcefully than as a recommendation (both in the above-cited ritual text and in Code of Canon Law can. 856).
None of this is meant to gainsay the sign value of a gathered community into which the newly baptized child enters, and the Church in fact desires that baptism “should be conferred in a communal celebration for all the recently born children, and in the presence of the faithful” (Rite of Baptism 32). Sacraments are objectively just as valid no matter how minimal their celebration, but the Church prefers fuller use of signs and solemnity because of their greater capacity for *subjective *influence upon recipient (not relevant here) and witnesses. Accordingly, it is better to have a more broadly assembled group of the faithful representing the Church, but this need not be the whole group of regulars at a Sunday Mass and the Church thinks it sufficient to have a group “at least of relatives, friends, and neighbors.” It’s not a maximalizing desire, just an admonition to avoid the minimal practice which used sometimes to consist of the godparents taking the baby to the church without even the mother - recovering from childbirth - being present.
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dconklin
Guest
When our parish was faced with a population explosion, we had to add a Mass and thus we lost the buffer time between Masses. We found that if we add just 15 min to a Mass for a Baptism, the parking lot was a mess because the people coming for the next Mass could not find parking spaces. We offer Baptisms one Sunday a month after the Noon Mass and then two weeks later on a Saturday morning.
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