Baptist and Alcohol

  • Thread starter Thread starter JW55
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JW55

Guest
I do not want to derail a previous thread regarding Baptist/ Roman Catholic relations, but I do have a question about Baptist beliefs concerning alcohol consumption. I wouldn’t say I have found it universal among all Baptists but it is certainly highly prevalent that the consumption of any alcoholic beverage is always near the top in its regard as a serious sin by most Baptists.

I am not just referring to drinking to the point of abusive drunkeness or driving in a drunkened state, which is considered to be sinful by almost all faiths. I am referring to an occasional social drink or a glass of wine with a meal. I have known some Baptists who would not go to a dining facilty of any kind that served alcohol. I am just curious why this particular issue is regarded as being so vile?
 
q: what is the difference between a Baptist and a Catholic?
a: the Catholic will acknowledge you when he leaves the liquor store…😛
q: whats another difference?
a: the Catholic will not ask for a brown bag…😛
 
I am an ex-Pentecostal who came via the Southern Baptists. Both groups sieze on the verses that seem to prohibit alcohol consumption altogether, while totally ignoring the verses that allow for it, in moderation. That pretty much sums up the “why”–sola scripture, and only part of the scriptura at that.

Side-note: We live in a dry county (Cullman Co., AL), but the communities within the county have the option of going wet. In recent elections, two of the communities (Hanceville and Good Hope) voted to stay dry. In the most recent election there was a referendum for the city of Cullman to go wet, the third such referendum since we moved here in '02. This time the wets finally won, but in all three cases the “Keey Cullman Special” forces were led by the local Southern Baptists.

DaveBj
 
I don’t know about baptists but I once had a mormon friend who refused to eat my spaghetti sauce because I’d added a cup of burgandy to it.
I told him the alcohol had burned off in the cooking process but he still refused.
Go figure.
 
catsrus said:
I don’t know about baptists but I once had a mormon friend who refused to eat my spaghetti sauce because I’d added a cup of burgandy to it.
I told him the alcohol had burned off in the cooking process but he still refused.
Click to expand...
Mormonism originated as an extremely literalist offshoot of the Baptists. No surprise there. (Sidney Rigdon sincerely believed that Solomon Spalding found an ancient manuscript, when, in fact Spalding had written a parody of Protestant Biblical literalism.)

How, we can also recognize that drinking alcohol can be a near occasion of sin. That is why alcohol abuse is a sin.
 
DaveBj said:
I am an ex-Pentecostal who came via the Southern Baptists. Both groups sieze on the verses that seem to prohibit alcohol consumption altogether, while totally ignoring the verses that allow for it, in moderation. That pretty much sums up the “why”–sola scripture, and only part of the scriptura at that.

Side-note: We live in a dry county (Cullman Co., AL), but the communities within the county have the option of going wet. In recent elections, two of the communities (Hanceville and Good Hope) voted to stay dry. In the most recent election there was a referendum for the city of Cullman to go wet, the third such referendum since we moved here in '02. This time the wets finally won, but in all three cases the “Keey Cullman Special” forces were led by the local Southern Baptists.

DaveBj
Click to expand...
i like Cullman. do they still have that soul food restaurant over by the hotel? i used to deliver to a big target distribution center near there. right before you hit I65. peace 🙂
 
It probably occured out of something seen affecting their communities.

On both sides of my family (coming out of WWI, the Depression, the dirty Thirties, WWII) seven family members were addicted to alcohol. And, that was back when little was known about addiction.

Alcoholism easily becomes a generational “disease” - a compulsive addiction that passes its damage from parent to children to grandchildren.

After the Reformation, Sacraments were seen as Catholic “hockus pockus”. Eucharist was seen as an unbiblical rehashing of Christ’s death, etc.

Few denominations held to communion with unleaven bread and femented wine.
 
My father who was an alcoholic for 25 years (now sober thanks be to God) is a Baptist. One day I went to a church picnic with him and my mother. My father decided to boast about being sober since he became a Christian at which point a retired Baptist pastor remarked that “people who drink still go to heaven, they just might not get there in a straight line.” I thought that was actually a pretty wise rebuttal to my father’s boasting.
 
hizstory said:
I thought that was actually a pretty wise rebuttal to my father’s boasting.
Click to expand...
Early in my recovery from alcohol abuse, I realized that it seemed silly to be proud of doing what others do normally. 😃
 
Well the strange thing is most of those verses are from the Old Testament written by Jews OK? The first time I attended a sabbath evening service I was served wine and cookies, the same way we’d have coffee and donuts. Kids are allowed wine in the Temple. I asked the Rabbi about those verses and the understanding from them was pretty Catholic sounding. God never forbid drinking alcohol. The “wine makes a mocker” type warning is about getting as they say in Yiddhish “versnicken” (falling down drunk). BTW the Bible belt has statistically the HIGHEST rate of alcoholism in the country followed by Mormon country-same dynamic. The reasoning is if one drink will send you to Hell why not enjoy the ride! Long Island Ice Tea was a drink invented for when the Minister came. You could still get drunk and very so and look innocent. I’m having tea Pastor.
 
I’m related to quite a few baptists, from Southern to Independent. Half drink, half do not. Went to a service once, and they announced a new years eve party at someone house. It was BYOB, as it was not considered a “church” function. I heard a lot of gasps

Many fundamentalist types also view smoking the same way.

**Q: Why do you have to take two Baptists with you when you go fishing?

A: Because if you take just one, he’ll drink all your beer!

You might be a Baptist if:

You think Jesus actually used Welch’s grape juice and saltine crackers.**
 
Any church that teaches that all use of alcohol is wrong, is denying the acts of Jesus himself.

Jesus first miracle was changing water into wine at the Wedding Feast at Cana. He could not, and would not, have done this if alcohol use was automatically wrong.

I know that some churches believe that this was just grape juice. BUT, in the Latin and in the Greek versions of the Bible, from the earliest versions know, the words used specified wine, and NOT grape juice.

I grew up in one of those churches. We had “communion” which consisted of bread nuggets and little vials of grape juice. I asked my grandfather once why no wine was used, when the Bible said that Jesus changed water into wine. He really couldn’t answer that question (he was a Free Methodist Minister for over 50 years).
 
I had a religious studies professor in college who grew up on a farm in the south where they had grapes. He pointed out the fact that grapes naturally ferment with no help from anybody and to make grape juice you add chemicals to stop the grapes from fermenting. As far as the saltines, A Baptist preacher asked a Rabbi friend of mine for the recipe for matzohs (unleavened bread used at passover) The Rabbi luaghed and said,"mix flour and water and spoon it onto a rock for exactly 14 minutes in the sun and that’s it. No salt no polyabsobant anything, flour and water like communion wafers.
 
Historically, Baptists have opposed the consumption of alcohol because it tends to be a lubricant for sin that can destroy families. Therefore they didn’t want to consume alcohol at all in order to avoid the temptation to drink in excess and sin while their decision making skills were compromised. It seems to me that things are shifting from whole congregations choosing not to consume alcohol to leaving the choice to individuals. Though it is still fairly universal that grape juice is used instead of wine for celebrating the Lord’s Supper because most Baptists are not comfortable giving their kids wine.
 
This is really an American thing. The cheapest beer I bought in London, England was at St. Paul’s Baptist Church. My younger daughter was in a chamber choir that was singing there. I was puzzled by the signboard at the door of the church. It said “fully licenced bar.” I thought, we truly are a people divided by a common language. At the intermission, sure enough, in the narthex (or whatever Baptists call that area) there were tables set up and alcohol was being served. My daughter went to an women’s college in North Carolina and I must say that those Tarheel Baptist students could put away some alcohol! In Fuessen, Germany I found my daughter teaching them how to actually taste wine when they drank it. Personally, I don’t much mind the Baptist attitude: it keeps the prices down for us poor Lutherans and Catholics.😉
 
Some do, some don’t. I happen to like having a drink every once in a while and I see nothing wrong with it as long as you don’t drink to the point of being drunk.
 
rev_kevin said:
Some do, some don’t. I happen to like having a drink every once in a while and I see nothing wrong with it as long as you don’t drink to the point of being drunk.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, but my parents always said that Baptist ministers would never to drink in public, but they would often drink in the closest as “closet drinkers” because their congregation would frown on them for drinking period.

They have three evil Ds as they like to say Drinking, Dancing Divorce. When my sister was married we had to go from the Baptist church for the ceremony to a Methodist church for the reception because they didn’t want to let us have a father-daughter dance at the reception if it was in a church building! I’m NOT kidding
 
JohnnyReb said:
I agree with you, but my parents always said that Baptist ministers would never to drink in public, but they would often drink in the closest as “closet drinkers” because their congregation would frown on them for drinking period.

They have three evil Ds as they like to say Drinking, Dancing Divorce. When my sister was married we had to go from the Baptist church for the ceremony to a Methodist church for the reception because they didn’t want to let us have a father-daughter dance at the reception if it was in a church building! I’m NOT kidding
Click to expand...
Oh I believe you. There are those who see that at evil. It really seems quite silly if you ask me. I see nothing wrong with drinking as long as it is in moderation. As far as dancing, I don’t dance not because I’m against it, I have 2 left feet and my parkinsons won’t allow me to move as freely as I want. Although I’m not a fan of divorce, there are times when one needs to divorce. For example if your spouse is always beating on you. And one needs to look at what is better, to stay in a marriage where there is no love between eachother or to divorce and find someone who you love and who loves you. Now I know the divorce part will get some Catholics in a rage but thats my view on it. I know I will get "what God has joined together let no man desolve’ from them but oh well. They aren’t living the other persons life.
 
rev_kevin said:
Oh I believe you. There are those who see that at evil. It really seems quite silly if you ask me. I see nothing wrong with drinking as long as it is in moderation. As far as dancing, I don’t dance not because I’m against it, I have 2 left feet and my parkinsons won’t allow me to move as freely as I want. Although I’m not a fan of divorce, there are times when one needs to divorce. For example if your spouse is always beating on you. And one needs to look at what is better, to stay in a marriage where there is no love between eachother or to divorce and find someone who you love and who loves you. Now I know the divorce part will get some Catholics in a rage but thats my view on it. I know I will get "what God has joined together let no man desolve’ from them but oh well. They aren’t living the other persons life.
Click to expand...
My sister (other one, not the one mentioned in my last post) is divorced from the father of her first child because he was abusive to her and assaulted here on multiple occasions. I know God hates divorce and ideally it should never happen. But we still live in a fallen world where the impacts of sin are still felt. I am glad my sister got out when she did. I would rather her be divorced than dead (and her ex did hold a knife to her throat, that is when she left for good). Actually the funny thing is in the eyes of the RCC, I am not sure that her marriage would be considered valid anyway. I have gotten different opinions on the matter, but thats a whole other story.
 
JohnnyReb said:
My sister (other one, not the one mentioned in my last post) is divorced from the father of her first child because he was abusive to her and assaulted here on multiple occasions. I know God hates divorce and ideally it should never happen. But we still live in a fallen world where the impacts of sin are still felt. I am glad my sister got out when she did. I would rather her be divorced than dead (and her ex did hold a knife to her throat, that is when she left for good). Actually the funny thing is in the eyes of the RCC, I am not sure that her marriage would be considered valid anyway. I have gotten different opinions on the matter, but thats a whole other story.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that about your sister but I’m glad she got out when she could. before he killed her. Not it all depends, if they were not married in a Catholic Church by a priest then I believe, although I could be wrong, that their marriage in the view of the CC is not valid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top