Baptist and Catholics

[bergin814]

Why are Baptist so against Catholic? I just found out about this.

 

[sententia]

Beats me. Generally, because if there is any chance the Catholic may be right, then what’s that say for the other group?

Most, though, are simply taught incorrectly about what we believe, and try to save us from that which we don’t even practice.

 

[geezerbob]

**We finally broke the ice here. While we’re still miles apart theologically, we’re at least cooperating in helping the homeless. Our downtown church does a meal for them one Saturday a month and, at the Baptists’ request, are partnering with a different Baptist church each month. Also, St. Peter’s Catholic and First Baptist feed about 3,000 each Thanksgiving and Christmas. **

 

[Zooey]

Bob, that is great! What a good way to get to know each other! It always warms my heart to hear that kind of thing is succeeding.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

The Babtists are on the front line with us at the abortion mills too in Memphis. They hear us praying the Roasary and they do the sidewalk counseling. There have only been two people that have attacked our faith openly.

 

[Contarini]

bergin814:

Why are Baptist so against Catholic? I just found out about this.

I can give you a few reasons off the top of my head:

1. Baptists strongly emphasize the liberty of the individual believer (especially the liberty to study and interpret the Bible), the autonomy of local congregations, the sufficiency of Scripture, and the unhelpful nature of “human traditions” (though of course they have plenty of traditions of their own, often unrecognized). Catholicism is (or seems to them) the antithesis of all these things.
2. Baptists originated in the 17th century as a group of radical Puritans who initially separated from the Church of England because it was still too close to Catholicism (they called it “a daughter of the Whore”). Even if they don’t know this history, their attitudes and assumptions have been deeply shaped by it.
3. Many Baptists, reluctant to accept their origins in the 17th century, have constructed for themselves a highly dubious pedigree going back to dissenting groups in the early Church. This “Trail of Blood” is defined by opposition to the false, Constantinian Catholic Church, and by vicious persecution of “true believers” by the Catholic Church. Granted, the “Trail of Blood” theory arose from already existing anti-Catholicism, but once it was accepted it has been a powerful force to nourish anti-Catholic sentiments.
4. Independently of the “Trail of Blood” theory, Baptists are opposed to the idea of a state church and see Constantine as having radically corrupted the Church. They see Catholicism (and to a lesser extent more traditional forms of Protestantism) as the offspring of the unholy union between Christianity and the Roman Empire.
5. Baptists are generally highly evangelical and stress a personal commitment to Jesus as your savior (often seen as an event that you should be able to mark on a calendar and testify to). They also tend to see complete certainty of your final salvation as an important (maybe essential) mark of having a real relationship with Jesus. This leads them to regard as “non-Christians” not only nominal Catholics who probably (though only God knows) really don’t have an inner relationship with Jesus, but also genuinely devout Catholics who can’t express their piety in the forms that Baptists can recognize.

That being said, not all Baptists are anti-Catholic. Baptists are a highly varied bunch!

Edwin

 

[coyote]

…your affiliation says “Episcopalian”?

 

[Cactus]

I know many Baptists and they (in some ways like Catholics) are a very mixed lot. I am a convert to the Catholic Faith having started out as a Baptist. I have 2 children who attend a Baptist university in which they freely practice their Catholic Faith. I always enjoy open, sincere dialogue with Baptist friends, as well as seperated brethren of other traditions.

 

[mark_a]

**We finally broke the ice here. While we’re still miles apart theologically, we’re at least cooperating in helping the homeless. Our downtown church does a meal for them one Saturday a month and, at the Baptists’ request, are partnering with a different Baptist church each month. Also, St. Peter’s Catholic and First Baptist feed about 3,000 each Thanksgiving and Christmas. **

True. We went to a Baptist baptism today, The Minister, who received a heads-up that we are Catholic went out of his way to welcome us and make us feel at ease. In his awesome sermon, he even had a positive comment about Catholics.

Times are changing from the hatred and ridicule preached from Baptist pulpits a generation ago.

There was even a black man there!!!

 

[Contarini]

coyote:

…your affiliation says “Episcopalian”?

Does that mean I can’t talk about Baptists? I grew up among Baptists and was baptized by a Baptist pastor. Besides, I’m a church historian. It’s my job to try to explain this stuff. But I hope some Baptists will chime in as well.

Edwin

 

[Philena]

I never experienced prejudice until I started posting on the baptist.org site. Talk about a learning experience! The “Trail of Blood” myth seems to be deeply ingrained into some aspects of the Baptist experience. This results in a highly anti-Catholic attitude among some Baptists.

They also appear to believe strongly in personal revelation, as opposed to revelation as the Church understands it. So each person believe that their personal interpretation of the Bible is infallible as guided by the Holy Spirit.

I never got a satisfactory answer as to why the Holy Spirit would guide “sola scriptura” denominations would have conflicting interpretations of the Bible.

 

[DJgang]

Contarini:

Baptists are a highly varied bunch!

Edwin

Great post - but I really agree with this…I too raised Baptist.

My father is Baptist and like to have come “unglued” when he found out my husband and I were becoming Episcopalians. Too close to “Catholic” for him…

The funnest thing my father has ever said about Catholics…which was not very long ago…my mother made the comment that everytime she goes to Wal-Mart she sees a few nuns together…we live very close to where they live…anyway, my dad said “know why you will never see one alone”…No, why dad? " Well, they won’t let them go anywhere alone because they are afraid they might run away"…I laughed so hard…and asked him…who is “they”…who is holding these poor nuns hostage? Guess that it never occuried to my dad that even I do not go to wal-mart alone…oh well! Funny.

 

[pnewton]

Philena:

I . Talk about a learning experience! The “Trail of Blood” myth seems to be deeply ingrained into some aspects of the Baptist experience. .

I knew very few Baptists that thought that this revisionist history is anything but wishful thinking. The groups that have to be strung together represent some rather frightening heresies if the Trail of Blood People knew anything beyond the name of the group. They certainly were not what Baptist are today.

I do find it an interesting paradox that the core authority relies on the Bible alone as interpretted by the believer…unless that believe takes scripture and realizes it teaches the core of catholicism.

 

[deb1]

Contarini:

Does that mean I can’t talk about Baptists? I grew up among Baptists and was baptized by a Baptist pastor. Besides, I’m a church historian. It’s my job to try to explain this stuff. But I hope some Baptists will chime in as well.

Edwin

I thought that your info was interesting. Thanks for taking the time to type it all out.

I was raised Baptist and attended a Independent Baptist Church for three years. As has been stated, there is a lot of variety among individual Baptists. SOme are very accepting of other denominations, others are less so.

The pastor of the Baptist Church that I attended in Iowa shocked me. He truely didn’t think that any denomination but his were interpretting the bible correctly. Infact, he doubted that they were Christians. Even among the other individual Independent Baptist CHurch’s, he was very negative toward any church that did anything different then ours. Considering that in other aspects this was a generous, kindly man; when I discovered this really narrow view in him, I was hurt. He didn’t view my Lutheran Sister as a Christian.

Not all, or even most, Baptist Churches think like this. I had just stumbled upon a extreme fundamentalist Church.

 

[deb1]

mark a:

True. We went to a Baptist baptism today, The Minister, who received a heads-up that we are Catholic went out of his way to welcome us and make us feel at ease. In his awesome sermon, he even had a positive comment about Catholics.

Times are changing from the hatred and ridicule preached from Baptist pulpits a generation ago.

There was even a black man there!!!

Your post made me think. I grew up in a Baptist church. We just took for granted that there were black churches and white churches.(this is in NC) I am not certain if this kind of voluntary seperation is still true today. I know megachurches sometimes have more mixture among races, as do nondenominations. The Catholic church that I attend has people of various races.

 

[mark_a]

deb1:

Your post made me think. I grew up in a Baptist church. We just took for granted that there were black churches and white churches.(this is in NC) I am not certain if this kind of voluntary seperation is still true today. I know megachurches sometimes have more mixture among races, as do nondenominations. The Catholic church that I attend has people of various races.

Our local Catholic Churches aren’t exactly overflowing with Blacks. We are getting more, especially Native Africans that have moved into the area.

I now understand there are many different types of Baptists, but the white ones in my home town were very prejudiced against Blacks and Catholics. I vividly remember one Baptist families’ explosive laughter when I told them a Black lady was a member of our Church.

But times are changing. I’m glad.

 

[Fidelis]

Whatever shortcomings Baptist churches may have, they sure teach their people to love God’s word. I can always tell I have an ex-Baptist in the class when I’m leading a Bible study or apologetics group because they listen closely, ask questions, and take careful notes. It does a Bible teacher’s heart good!

 

[On_my_way]

Our RCIA program starts next week and we have about three members that are converting to the Catholic Church from the Baptist Church. I spoke to a elderly lady, and she said she has been a baptist her whole life and believes that she was misled. Know I now not all (Baptist) feel that way. She told me that her church had told her to hate everything about the Catholic Church. She moved to Hawaii and found our Church by accident and she fell in love with it at her first mass.

My nieces husband grew up Baptist and was also told that if you are not Baptist then you are going to hell. His grandfather is a Baptist minister and that how nieces husband grew up, until he came to Hawaii and meet our family and found out that we were Catholic. He told his grandfather that he was thinking about joining the Catholic Church and his grandfather blew a fuse.

I know that these maybe isolated incidents, but 2 people from different parts of the country but same church, could only mean that Baptist hate everything about the Catholic Church. Remember it is just my opinion and observation.

 

[djrakowski]

On my way:

I know that these maybe isolated incidents, but 2 people from different parts of the country but same church, could only mean that Baptist hate everything about the Catholic Church. Remember it is just my opinion and observation.

Please don’t form an opinion that ALL Baptists hate Catholicism on the basis of two incidents. You’ll find that no two Baptist churches are completely alike. It is possible that the two folks you’ve met are from the same church, but highly unlikely, since there’s no hierarchical authority structure outside of the walls of each individual Baptist congregation. For example, the Southern Baptist Convention may periodically make statements about faith and morals, but they are not binding in the sense that a church would be sanctioned for not following them.

I’ve been a member of a large Baptist church for nearly 8 years, and I’ve never heard anyone teach hatred for any other faith. I guess our pastors and teachers have been more concerned with the faith of their flock than with the supposed errors of those outside of it. Besides, if you believe an institution to be leading people in error (and since I’m studying Catholicism, I have formed no firm opinion on the matter), you’re not likely to convince someone to leave it by hating it (and obviously some of my Baptist brethren have yet to get such an idea through their thick skulls, much to my embarrasment and dismay).

Dan

 

[Mamamull]

I was raised – and baptized a second time – by Baptists of the independant variety. They thought the Southern Baptists were loose.

It was no sleeveless blouses or dresses for women. Cou-lottes could be worn to picnics or roller skating parties. The fact that I think I was born wearing denim jeans, didn’t sit well with our pastor.

Although, my salvation was questioned plenty enough for not being able to quote scripture well – I am terrible with numbers and juxtapose them constantly. They saw it as a moral problem.

That I like science and ballet and other dance forms, and that I am not a shy, demure woman also made for trouble.

I was just never a good Baptist. I am a pretty good Catholic without working at it. Heck we can smoke, drink and gamble in moderation – this is my kind of sinners!

Seriously, the pastor of the church I was in, could have named his church “We’re NOT Catholic because…”
they are idol worshippers
they are Mary worshippers,
they reject salvation by faith alone
they are Godless heathens
they are a cult and the Whore of Babylon

You get the idea. Sunday school classes were apologetics on how to overcome any of a number of fundamentalist religions and of course the great whore.

Oh well, I love my Church, my Holy Father, the history, the Saints and theology. Thank God, I found my way home.