Baptist and once saved always saved

[Contarini]

Jon,

I’d say you are much better off where you are, with all the controversy, not only in TEC, but now in the Church of England. I’m about at my “wit’s end.”

Anna. You aren’t in the Church of England. You aren’t in full communion with the Church of England, though you are in communion with Rwanda which is in communion with Canterbury which is how your clergy can tell you with a straight face that they are in the Communion.

Hear the Word, receive the sacraments, pray, love God and your neighbor, and trust that the Holy Spirit is leading us through all this mess and confusion.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Jon,

Interesting. Come to think of it, I think one of my Episcopal friends said she did not have to go through Confirmation when she came from the Lutheran Church. She was “Received.”

That might be the case now because of our full communion agreement with the ELCA.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

In the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Baptist body in the USA, there seem to be two schools of thought on OSAS.

One is called Eternal Security. In this line of thought, if a person believes and repents at any one time in their life, regardless of if they continue to believe, be a Christian, or persevere, they will go to heaven. Their salvation is secure, even if they committ apostasy. Dr Charles Stanley points out that our Christian service and how we live our lives determines our level of reward in heaven, that not all are rewarded the same way or at all in eternity.

The other is Lordship Salvation. In LS, as long as a believer continues to be faithful (continues to believe and serve the Lord), they will be saved. A believer’s salvation is secure unless they committ apostasy. If they committ apostasy, they will need to repent or they will not be saved.

LS accuse the Eternal Security crowd of antinomianism. The ES crowd accuses the LS crowd of teaching salvation by works. But they are united on the fact that the believer is secure.

I’m pretty sure that the LS folks in the SBC would say that an apostate was never saved in the first place. I think you have them confused with us Wesleyans!

Edwin

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna. You aren’t in the Church of England. You aren’t in full communion with the Church of England, though you are in communion with Rwanda which is in communion with Canterbury which is how your clergy can tell you with a straight face that they are in the Communion.

Hear the Word, receive the sacraments, pray, love God and your neighbor, and trust that the Holy Spirit is leading us through all this mess and confusion.

Edwin

Edwin,

I’m in an Episcopal Parish. The church in communion with Rwanda is the one in my area that broke with TEC. It’s not the church I attend.

Anna

P.S. See this post:

. . . . .I do see a huge problem in people with opposing views trying to remain “in communion” with one another. It will be interesting to see how this plays out–excruciating, but interesting nonetheless.

My conservative Episcopal Parish has been around for more than half a century, There are charter members there, who never dreamed such controversies as “same-sex” issues would arise in TEC. Our Parish continues on, ministering to one another, the community, and beyond. Nothing has changed there. When people read the news of ordinations of those in same-sex relationships; it’s difficult to imagine that there are conservative Parishes throughout TEC, that do not hold or practice these beliefs.

So, what is to be done? Should all conservatives leave TEC?

Some Episcopal Parishes are breaking with TEC. A Parish in our area did just that; but the break didn’t come without negative effects. They were an established Episcopal Church in a small town near us. The break tore the congregation apart. Some stayed in the Episcopal Church. Some left and met in a school and eventually bought a church not far from my Episcopal Parish. Those who broke away left the community they were serving. So, should they have stayed and worked for change within TEC? That’s a question none of us can answer. In fact, I think the answer to that question may not be the same for everyone. . . . . .

. . . . .You are right, crazzeto, authority is an issue, in that no one can dictate doctrine throughout the communion. But, I think attempting to remain in communion with those of opposing beliefs, will be the biggest challenge. If the Anglican Communion breaks down, we’ll have a bigger mess, with countless broke congregations and communities. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing in the long run . Sometimes separating the “wheat from the chaff” is precisely what we need.

 

[Contarini]

Edwin,

I’m in an Episcopal Parish. The church in communion with Rwanda is the one in my area that broke with TEC. It’s not the church I attend.

Anna

P.S. See this post:

Sorry, Anna, I should have been following better. I think I got the impression that your church had left TEC.

What’s your bishop like? (I mean mostly, where does he or she stand on the present controversies, but of course the personal character of the bishop is also very important!)

Edwin

 

[Anna_Scott]

Sorry, Anna, I should have been following better. I think I got the impression that your church had left TEC.

What’s your bishop like? (I mean mostly, where does he or she stand on the present controversies, but of course the personal character of the bishop is also very important!)

Edwin

Edwin,

Our Bishop leans toward liberal views. Our Rector is very conservative. So, it’s a difficult situation.

Anna

 

[Contarini]

Edwin,

Our Bishop leans toward liberal views. Our Rector is very conservative. So, it’s a difficult situation.

Anna

A very common one, though.

My bishop is potentially available for “alternate episcopal oversight”–not that that’s an ideal solution, and not that he isn’t plenty busy already!

Edwin

 

[Anna_Scott]

A very common one, though.

My bishop is potentially available for “alternate episcopal oversight”–not that that’s an ideal solution, and not that he isn’t plenty busy already!

Edwin

Edwin,

It will really be interesting to see how all of this plays out. Being new to TEC, it is difficult to understand how those with such conflicting views will be able to remain in communion with one another. I suppose time will answer that issue.

Anna

 

[Contarini]

Edwin,

It will really be interesting to see how all of this plays out. Being new to TEC, it is difficult to understand how those with such conflicting views will be able to remain in communion with one another. I suppose time will answer that issue.

Anna

Yes, as time usually does–with widening schism.

My bishop is taking what I believe to be a noble stand, but the flaw is that it clearly isn’t sustainable in the long term, and I’m afraid that he’s just going to bequeath an impossible position to his successor. I asked him point blank last year (at a post-General-Convention debriefing session) what he would do if he had to choose between the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion, and he couldn’t really give me an answer–not to my satisfaction, anyway. He just said that he didn’t think it would come to that in his lifetime.

Edwin

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yes, as time usually does–with widening schism.

My bishop is taking what I believe to be a noble stand, but the flaw is that it clearly isn’t sustainable in the long term, and I’m afraid that he’s just going to bequeath an impossible position to his successor. I asked him point blank last year (at a post-General-Convention debriefing session) what he would do if he had to choose between the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion, and he couldn’t really give me an answer–not to my satisfaction, anyway. He just said that he didn’t think it would come to that in his lifetime.

Edwin

Edwin,

His response is interesting. Conservatives in my Parish have said liberals may find their endowments running dry, and the problem may solve itself.

All of this is so new to me. Having grown up in Southern Baptist Churches, solutions to dissent were more immediate. The SBC simple threw churches out. End of problem. I’m not saying that is the best solution.

Anna