Baptist brother posts follow jesus not his people

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my Baptist dad has now chimed in saying “Y’all have different definitions of “church”. Therefore the same passage means something different to each of you. Is the church the buildings and the hierarchy? Or is it merely the believers? The analogy of how you get the is not the owner’s manual of the car, but whether one drives, flies, sails, runs, walks, or crawls on his belly like a reptile. Does it matter how? Are the keys to the kingdom the keys to unlock the cathedral doors, control over the church, or understanding and enlightenment? So many possibilities. And to change what one thing means often causes much else to change. Y’all - QUIT your arguing about which is right. You are both right. Len is right for Len; Preston is right for Preston. Y’all will NOT convince each other. Agree to disagree and DROP IT!”
 
Shaolen said:
He now says “He gives his authority to no one other than God. To think otherwise is believing in a false idol. This is laid out in the Ten Commandments.”

So Jesus gives authority to Peter in Matt 16:18. Also previously when he told Peter to feed my sheep. What other verses can I use to show this?
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He is obviously very confused. God has given authority to men throughout history, starting with Adam naming the animals. He is confusing worship with authority.

Pray for him.
 
Shaolen said:
my Baptist dad has now chimed in saying “Y’all have different definitions of “church”. Therefore the same passage means something different to each of you. Is the church the buildings and the hierarchy? Or is it merely the believers? The analogy of how you get the is not the owner’s manual of the car, but whether one drives, flies, sails, runs, walks, or crawls on his belly like a reptile. Does it matter how? Are the keys to the kingdom the keys to unlock the cathedral doors, control over the church, or understanding and enlightenment? So many possibilities. And to change what one thing means often causes much else to change. Y’all - QUIT your arguing about which is right. You are both right. Len is right for Len; Preston is right for Preston. Y’all will NOT convince each other. Agree to disagree and DROP IT!”
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He is exactly right. All those eccleisal communities that formed at the Reformation suffer from a deficient concept of the Church.

The best you can do is educate yourself very well about your faith, and theScriptures, then live an exemplary life.
 
Shaolen said:
My brother who is Baptist posted a picture that said " Jesus never said ‘follow my people’ he said ‘follow me’ don’t let the hypocrisy in churches stop you from following Jesus"

I then responded "how do we follow him? by listening to the ones he gave authority to teach in His name. the church headed by the apostles. he said “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me”

He replied “He says we must place him before other important people in our lives. Even before ourselves.”

I said “that doesnt contradict my comment”

Can anyone help with this?
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Ask your brother who is Baptist this question.

Who started YOUR baptist religion? see what he says

Neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit caused such division as protestantism. If he objects to that quote the following
Jesus Church (the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Timothy 3:15 ) is who Jesus says to follow. Your brother quoted “he who hears you hears me…” as if he is the one who personally speaks for Jesus. He has no bonafides to assume that role. In fact, everything your brother said falls apart under scrutiny. Neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit, nor the apostles, nor His Church (the Catholic Church) that Jesus started in the 1st cnetury, started the baptist religion. The baptists are just one of 10’s of 1000’s of protestant sects. His particular strain of protestantism started in the 17th century by the heretic John Smyth. baptisthistory.org/baptistbeginnings.htm

Share with your brother, some actual (verified) Church history going back to the 1st century #[34 (http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11997086&postcount=34)

In that link are many internal links. Open them up. Your brother might want to see those. Division from the Church was already condemned in the 1st century as are those who divide. And there is no expiration date to those warnings and condemnations.
 
Shaolen said:
He now says “He gives his authority to no one other than God. To think otherwise is believing in a false idol. This is laid out in the Ten Commandments.”

So Jesus gives authority to Peter in Matt 16:18. Also previously when he told Peter to feed my sheep. What other verses can I use to show this?
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Again, your brother doesn’t know what he is talking about.
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When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men. (Matthew 9:8)

And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, (Luke 9:1)

Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall hurt you. (Luke 10:19)

I write this while I am away from you, in order that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority which the Lord has given me for building up and not for tearing down. (2 Corinthians 13:10)

I have written something to the church; but Diot’rephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority. (3 John 1:9)
*

God clearly gives authority to men.

-Tim-
 
Shaolen said:
my Baptist dad has now chimed in saying "Y’all have different definitions of “church”.
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If you don’t mind I will be direct and to the point on the points being brought up

Actually, that issue was settled in the first century. Protestants started 16 centuries after Jesus established His Chuch, the Catholic Church. The CC has all His promises. That’s the one, scripture says, apart from this Church there is no salvation.

One will ask, where is that teaching in scripture?

Romans 16:17-20, Galatians 5:19-21 , the word διχοστασίας dichostasia in those 2 passages that word = division / dissension / factions /sedition. Therefore, already there are those in the 1st century who want to divide from the Catholic Church and do their own thing. It’s clearly condemned.

Someone will say I don’t see Catholic Church in scripture.

To which one can point to where Catholic came from. In Greek it is katholicos. catholic.com/tracts/what-catholic-means Which is a compound word
kata = according to
holos = the whole

So where is “kataholos ekklesia” in scripture? Acts 9:31. See the words in red, the links are operational
Ἡ , μὲν , οὖν ,ἐκκλησία , καθ’ , ὅλης , τῆς , Ἰουδαίας

Also

Bp Ignatius of Antioch ( ~69 a.d. to ~107 a.d.) direct disciple of St John, didn’t invent the name Catholic Church, yet he was using Catholic Church in his writings to identify the Church of Jesus Christ and that of the apostles. And no one was confused by the name. Epistle to the Smyrnæans (ch 8) of which schismatics won’t be going to heaven Epistle to the Philadelphians (ch 3)

Getting back to Paul, he concludes Gal 5:21 with his warning and the consequence for the sin of division from the CC.

" I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God" [Gal 5:21] iow they go to hell if they die in that sin

THAT’s where Ignatius got his teaching on those who divide from the Catholic Church won’t be going to heaven if they die in that sin.

Same for today as well. There is no expiration date to that warning and consequence.
S:
Therefore the same passage means something different to each of you.
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You could ask your dad, who he is lecturing on private interpretation of scripture? Private interpretation (judgement) of scripture, is one of the hall marks of protestantism, and also one of many key points that makes protestantism a heresy The Great Heresies .
S:
Is the church the buildings and the hierarchy? Or is it merely the believers? The analogy of how you get the is not the owner’s manual of the car, but whether one drives, flies, sails, runs, walks, or crawls on his belly like a reptile. Does it matter how? Are the keys to the kingdom the keys to unlock the cathedral doors, control over the church, or understanding and enlightenment? So many possibilities. And to change what one thing means often causes much else to change. Y’all - QUIT your arguing about which is right. You are both right. Len is right for Len; Preston is right for Preston. Y’all will NOT convince each other. Agree to disagree and DROP IT!"
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no matter the stripe, protestants reject the Church Jesus established, ergo the protestant revolt of the 16th century, and rejection of authority Jesus established. Who then are protestants gonna argue with on their judgement day? Jesus?
 
Shaolen said:
My brother who is Baptist posted a picture that said " Jesus never said ‘follow my people’ he said ‘follow me’
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Well, since your brother is one of Jesus’ people, perhaps you should take his advice and not follow him when he posts pictures like that.

The statement self-destructs since if you follow the person who made it, you have to do the opposite of what it says. It’s essentially saying,“Follow me when I tell you to only follow Jesus.” 🙂
 
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