Baptist-Catholic Dialogue Moves Forward

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Allis

With Respect…

Why is it that when I was ‘church hoping’ and even thought I found a ‘church’ i never fully found God.

It wasn’t until I started Praying the rosary, and looking at things from a Catholic Perspective that my love for God increased countless times over.
Hi

If one person finds God in Baptists and another finds in the Catholics so what is point in contention. The Baptists and the Catholics should unite in the common factor God and leave the differences.

That is what is reasonable and rational, to me.

Thanks
 
Paar…

To you in Christ…

I believe you missed the point of what I was trying to say. I was not saying you couldn’t find Christ in a Baptist Church. I fully believe you can.

What I was commenting on was the implication that becoming Catholic means you LOOSE Christ. That you must be deceived by the devil to become Catholic. If it is the Devil that leads people to the Catholic Church, as was explicitly stated by one poster, then why has my love for Christ increased exponentially…

In Christ
 
Hi

If one person finds God in Baptists and another finds in the Catholics so what is point in contention. The Baptists and the Catholics should unite in the common factor God and leave the differences.

That is what is reasonable and rational, to me.

Thanks
Which specific differences should they leave? Real Presence? Authority of Rome? OSAS? Sola Fides? Sola Scriptura? Baptism? Mass? Sacraments?
 
Which specific differences should they leave? Real Presence? Authority of Rome? OSAS? Sola Fides? Sola Scriptura? Baptism? Mass? Sacraments?
Hi

It is the Christians to decide by peaceful dialgure as to what is the truth in their beliefs, naturally they would have to forego egoistic wrongs and sacrifice for the truth which is the message of Jesus of his life.

Thanks
 
compromise does not equal truth… but a dilution that results in damnation

In Christ
 
Nah, she admits to know nothing about Catholicism.

I’ve spent the last year and half begging and asking the Holy Spirit to lead me to God’s Truth and where God wants me to be. I figure, had God wanted me to stay Baptist, I’d still be there. 🤷 But thats just me, I trust God to not lead me astray.
What do you mean by “I trust God to not lead me astray”? How would you know?

Have you compared the doctrines of the catholic church with the scriptures?
 
Hi

It is the Christians to decide by peaceful dialgure as to what is the truth in their beliefs, naturally they would have to forego egoistic wrongs and sacrifice for the truth which is the message of Jesus of his life.

Thanks
Which is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches, Truth, and has taught for over 2,000 years, until Martin Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, 500 years ago, and now 33,000 denomonnimations are protesting.
 
What do you mean by “I trust God to not lead me astray”? How would you know?

Have you compared the doctrines of the catholic church with the scriptures?
Obviously, since he is coming into the Church, he must take instruction, he is comparing them to Scripture. Do you think a Baptist would come into the Catholic Church without comparing Church Teaching to the Bible?

Who do you think physically compiled the Bible, safeguarded it from error and heresy under the guidance of the Holy Spirit throughout the last 2,000 years? Who copied it in the Middle Ages, translated into the Vulgate, the language of the people? Who saved Scripture from the invading hordes who destroyed the Roman Empire?

I am involved in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiantion for Adults) and I can assure you the CC is very much rooted in Scriptures. ALL of her teachings, mass, Real Presence, Trinity.
 
qui est ce;3081537]Obviously, since he is coming into the Church, he must take instruction, he is comparing them to Scripture. Do you think a Baptist would come into the Catholic Church without comparing Church Teaching to the Bible?
That is possible. I think lots of protestants don’t know the scriptures that well nor catholic doctrines and practices.
Who do you think physically compiled the Bible, safeguarded it from error and heresy under the guidance of the Holy Spirit throughout the last 2,000 years?
God used the catholic church to bring the canon to the church. In terms of the catholic church being safeguarded from error and hersey cannot be supported by the facts. There is alot of unbibical teachings and practices in the catholic church.
Who copied it in the Middle Ages, translated into the Vulgate, the language of the people? Who saved Scripture from the invading hordes who destroyed the Roman Empire?
God used the church.
I am involved in RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiantion for Adults) and I can assure you the CC is very much rooted in Scriptures. ALL of her teachings, mass, Real Presence, Trinity.
Some is some is not. The most glaring examples are the Marian doctrines, indulgences, celibate leadership and penance as not being rooted in scripture.
 
That is possible. I think lots of protestants don’t know the scriptures that well nor catholic doctrines and practices.
Of all Protestant denominations, I think Baptists know their Scripture.
God used the catholic church to bring the canon to the church. In terms of the catholic church being safeguarded from error and hersey cannot be supported by the facts. There is alot of unbibical teachings and practices in the catholic church.
Matthew 16:17-19
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood 12 has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, ** and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. **19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Some is some is not. The most glaring examples and penance as not being rooted in scripture.
Penance:
John 20:21-23
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

and

Mathew 18:15-18
A Brother Who Sins Against You
15"If your brother sins against you,** go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them,** tell it to the church;** and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
** 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven**.
The most glaring examples are the Marian doctrines, indulgences, celibate leadership
Which to which Marian doctrines are you referring? What is your understaniding of indulgences? Celibate leadership, this is not a doctrine, but, not only was Paul celibate, he stated it is better to remain unmarried. Some rites of the Catholic Church do allow for married priesthood, Latin Rite does not.

Scripture: Remember, the CC existed before Scriptures were determined. Under the guidance of the HS, the CC determined which writings were Inspired. The Catholic Church is the Church protected from error by the Holy Spirit. She cannot err in faith and morals.

Matthew 28:18-20
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. **And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” **

The Apostle were the first Bishops. Is Jesus with the Church? If so, it cannot lie in matters of doctrine.**
 
part 2
Penance:
John 20:21-23
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
 
That may be but do we know how well this person knows the Scriptures?
This person is joining the Catholic Church, so he/she will learn Scripture very well, since three Scripture readings are proclaimed at every Sunday on a three year rotating cycle, and two readings at daily mass on a two year cycle.
How has the catholic church offically interpreted “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it” i.e the church? What does it mean to “prevail” against? These are the kinds of questions that need to be answered before you can claim anything.
The powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.

This is not to say HUMANS do not err, Popes, priests, etc. sin, can and have been morally lacking, but not the Church, and not when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra.
 
part 2

What does penance have to do with forgiveness? Is it not true that once a person is forgiven there is no need for anything else?
There is need for penance, for our God is a God of justice
Penance is sorrow for having sinned and making amends for the sin.
“Be converted, and do **penance **for all your iniquities. . . . Cast away from you all your transgressions . . . and make to yourselves a new heart, and a new spirit” (Ezekiel 18:30-31; cf. Joel, 2:12; Jeremiah 8:6). In the same spirit St. John the Baptist exhorts his hearers: “Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of penance” (Matthew 3:8). Such too is the teaching of Christ as expressed in the parables of the Prodigal Son and of the Publican;
Same questions as the previous ones.
see post below
Lets take a couple. Prayed to and her assumption.
Actually, when one says “I prayed to Mary” it means asking her intercession. Such as when I ask you to pray for me. She is after all the mother of God! Catholics are not required to practice intercessory prayer, but it is a tradition of 2,000 years.

The Assumption is mentioned in the sermons of St. Andrew of Crete, St. John Damascene, St. Modestus of Jerusalem and others. In the West, St. Gregory of Tours (De gloria mart., I, iv) mentions it first. St. John of Damascus (P. G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: (Google for detail of St Andrew, et al).

Also, look to catacombes for paintings and writings describing veneration of Mary since the earliest Christians. In this time of veneration of bones of martyred Christians, no relics o Mary have ever been found.
It is a remission of punishment due to sin.
II Maccabees 12:40-46
40
But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.
41
They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.
42
7 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43
**He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; **44
for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45
But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46
**Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from **this sin.
If you study what Paul taught about leadership in I Timothy 3 you will find that he exhorts married men to be leaders. In fact he uses their status as fathers in families and how they manage them as a criteria for leadership.
Paul nor Jesus ever mandate celibacy as a requirement for leadership.
You are correct but married men can be Deacons. But at this time Latin Rite practices celibacy. It is not a doctrine.
This is not true. The OT scriptures predate the church and the oral teachings of Christ which would be scripture in oral form predates the church.
Yes, but how was it decided which writings were inspired? There are more than 4 Gospels: Protoevengelium of James, Thomas, etc. Also, OT was not set in stone either. In 90 AD, the Jews decided to throw out some books because they couldn’t find Hebrew texts. Fragments of those texts in Hebrew have since been found in Qumran.
Where did Jesus ever make such a promise? If anything He and His apostles warned that false teachers would come into the church and decieve many.
Yes, but CC is not one of them, see Matthew 28:20
Again Jesus never promised the church would not err. Read the first 3 chapters of Revelation and He rebukes a couple of churches for being in error.
There were some heretics around then, yes.
 
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